The RJW63 Official Jack Grealish Appreciation Thread

[bobzy]

On 18/09/2018 at 11:39, Cjay said:

Much as i think he is overrated by some on here i would be interested to see him in a more expansive style. 

Clearly has talent, be interesting to see how he performs in a Brentford style or us, that sort of thing. 

He's comfortably the best player in the Championship and it's not overrating Grealish to say that.  He's only just turned 23 and his ceiling is far higher than anything Aston Villa are likely to be doing in the next 5 seasons.

People will often use stats to backup claims - sometimes they do show a true picture, sometimes they don't.  For example, Ruben Neves being in the Championship last season was ridiculous, but I'd be willing to bet his goals/assists record is actually pretty shit.  He was always the player breaking up play and moving the ball forward to create attacks.  If there was a statistic for "assist to an assist", you'd see Neves being right up there.  This is similar to how Grealish is.  Naturally, some more end product would be delightful, but otherwise we should just enjoy him whilst he's here.

To demonstrate, just view the 90 second Sky highlights of our 2-0 win against Rotherham last night.  The first highlight is Grealish chasing down a ball, forcing the player to backpass to the keeper who fluffs his clearance to Grealish. First touch perfect, weight of pass to McGinn overlapping is perfect so it's a first time cross for McGinn and a chance for Kodjia.  Second clip is our first goal, ball comes to Grealish who has Hourihane in acres of space to the side of him and screaming for the ball - but he doesn't use him, he waits for an opening then puts a ball forward to Kodjia instead, who flicks through to Abraham to score.  "Assist to an assist".  Our second goal is a throw-in taken by El Mohamady to Grealish, after he's worked some space.  One touch (perfect weight again) back to El Mohamady who can hit a first time cross for Bolasie to score.  "Assist to an assist".

Statistically, we scored 2 and Grealish has 0 goals, 0 assists.  However, he's completely vital to how we play and way better than anything else we have.

Now that Neves has left the league, he's the best player in it.

[One For The Road]

8 minutes ago, bobzy said:

He's comfortably the best player in the Championship and it's not overrating Grealish to say that.

Comfortably the best player?

No wonder some of us think he is overrated by our fan base.

[bobzy]

Just now, One For The Road said:

Comfortably the best player?

No wonder some of us think he is overrated by our fan base.

Who is better?

[One For The Road]

7 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Who is better?

I'm not even convinced he is the best player at the club. Tammy Abraham, who has been capped twice by England and plays for Chelsea, may lay claim to that accolade. 

I don't think Jack is even close to being as good as some make out. He is not Premier League quality (yet) for a start. Hasn't shown that he can boss games in the 2nd tier and at his age he should have achieved far more by now in this division.

Maybe he will improve and go on to great things but I doubt he will ever be a top player. He just hasn't impressed on a consistent basis, and against 2nd division sides. 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by One For The Road

[bobzy]

1 minute ago, One For The Road said:

I'm not even convinced he is the best player at the club. Tammy Abraham, who has been capped twice by England and plays for Chelsea, may lay claim to that accolade. 

I don't think Jack is even close to being as good as some make out. He is not Premier League quality for a start. Hasn't shown that he can boss games in the 2nd tier and at his age he should have achieved far more by now in this division.

 

Tammy Abraham is another good prospect, but give me Grealish over him at the moment for sure.  Don't be fooled into thinking caps = amazing, by the way, just the same with stats.  You've named no-one else so I can only conclude that it's not a ridiculous claim at all.

He's definitely Premier League quality.  You don't get Spurs and Chelsea sniffing around if you're not a good player, and that's top end Premier League, not "just" the Everton types.

[AndyM3000]

This thread is insane. Hutton the best left back in the league, Grealish overrated and not Premier League quality.

Seek help.

 

[One For The Road]

6 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Tammy Abraham is another good prospect, but give me Grealish over him at the moment for sure.  Don't be fooled into thinking caps = amazing, by the way, just the same with stats.  You've named no-one else so I can only conclude that it's not a ridiculous claim at all.

He's definitely Premier League quality.  You don't get Spurs and Chelsea sniffing around if you're not a good player, and that's top end Premier League, not "just" the Everton types.

So Grealish is "comfortably" better than Abraham? Based on what?

I disagree with that massively.

And that's a player at the same club, I haven't even had to go to other Championship clubs to make the point that the claim is way over the top.

One of the better players? Yeah I'd go along with that

Best player in the league? No I don't think so.

"Comfortably the best player"? Not a a chance.

[One For The Road]

1 minute ago, AndyM3000 said:

This thread is insane. Hutton the best left back in the league, Grealish overrated and not Premier League quality.

Seek help.

 

How can you see he isn't overrated? He blatantly is. I've heard people say he should start for England. That's just ridiculous.

[bobzy]

Just now, One For The Road said:

So Grealish is "comfortably" better than Abraham? Based on what?

I disagree with that massively.

And that's a player at the same club, I haven't even had to go to other Championship clubs to make the point that the claim is way over the top.

One of the better players? Yeah I'd go along with that

Best player in the league? No I don't think so.

"Comfortably the best player"? Not a a chance.

So you're annoyed with the semantics?

I'll rephrase for you:

Jack Grealish is the best player in this division.

[Hoof hearted]

2 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

So Grealish is "comfortably" better than Abraham? Based on what?

I disagree with that massively.

And that's a player at the same club, I haven't even had to go to other Championship clubs to make the point that the claim is way over the top.

One of the better players? Yeah I'd go along with that

Best player in the league? No I don't think so.

"Comfortably the best player"? Not a a chance.

Might want to add an "in my opinion" disclaimer to this post fella.

You saying he isn't is as absurd as someone saying he is, quite frankly.

 

[One For The Road]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

So you're annoyed with the semantics?

I'll rephrase for you:

Jack Grealish is the best player in this division.

I'd still disagree. But at least it is a more realistic claim than being far better than anyone else which is what comfortably the best means. 

I think he has potential but I've been saying that about him for years. Plenty of players who had bags of potential became nothing more than lower league journeymen.

I think if he improves he could be a lower Prem player. If he goes to Spurs he won't play and I would imagine he would go out on loan. Not writing him off for the future but he needs to get consistent. And fast.

[One For The Road]

1 minute ago, Hoof hearted said:

Might want to add an "in my opinion" disclaimer to this post fella.

You saying he isn't is as absurd as someone saying he is, quite frankly.

 

I thought it was obvious it was my opinion as it's a message board where you post opinions under your name.

 

[Hoof hearted]

27 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

I thought it was obvious it was my opinion as it's a message board where you post opinions under your name.

 

In theory*

[Zatman]

With players like Kodjia, Abraham, Bolasie, El Ghazi, Hourihane, McGinn available. Opposition will not be able to afford to double or triple mark him and he will have a lot more space in coming weeks

[allani]

So here is a poser for you all.

I'm a bit "old school" in that I like 2 strikers.  I think that Kodjia and Abraham will cause chaos with most defences and should both be looking to score 20+ goals this season playing that formation.  If you play those 2 through the middle then unless we move to a 3-5-2 formation (which would possibly be suicidal given that we only have 1 centre back) that leaves a midfield 4.  I think we are most likely to play two in the middle and two wide men.

Jack seems to have been more effective playing if not "in the hole" then as a bit of a "free" midfielder with the right to roam around (or maybe that is just my opinion?).  That role pretty much disappears in a 4-4-2 formation.   Also I don't see Jack scoring 20+ goals to make a 4-4-1-1 formation as effective as a 4-4-2 with the AK attack above. So do we give him a more "controlled" role in the centre midfield - which given that I think McGinn or Hourihane should be the other will mean he has a bit less freedom to roam.  Or do we play him wide and allow a bit more attacking freedom but probably with the view that he is likely to drift infield or be in danger of getting isolated out wide?

He might be our best player but I'm wondering whether our best player might not fit well within our best formation?  Personally, I think that we are good enough going forward to have a front 6 of: Abraham, Kodjia, El Ghasi, Bolasie, Jack and McGinn.  I think that Jack and McGinn are decent enough defensively against most of the teams in the division.  However, they'd both have a bit of their creativity curtailed by playing as a centre 2 rather than as part of a central 3.

Maybe I am a football dinosaur myself - but I don't see any of our wide attackers scoring as many as Kodjia will if he plays in a more central role so I just can't see a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 or a 4-1-4-1 working as well for us.  So at the risk of turning this into a tactics/formation discussion - do we need to sacrifice a little of the quality of Jack in order to improve the overall quality of the team?  Or do people think that Jack could be just as good in a 4-4-2 as he is as the "free" midfielder?

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

Who is better?

Bolasie is better than grealish 

[Dave-R]

Is it me or are some looking at Grealish as not being as good as the rest, all because he doesn't score as much as other players, it's what it seems like and it is the only thing that can be said against jack.

Let's put it like this, if Steve holland has come looking in the championship at our player, Jack is obviously drawing the attention of the England manager and for all the rite reasons.

I think Jack deserves an England call up, his work ethic is superb, he's up and down that pitch helping the defence and trying to bring goals In, I rate him highly because it's deserved. He is the best player in the championship because of the way he causes no end of problems for the opposition, how he's there defensively, because he is a ball winner, because he's an assistant to goal scorers. At Jacks age he knows that field, knows how to win free kicks because the opposition want him out the game, everyone's targeting him and he should feel honoured that they are because he is a guarenteed migraine that doesn't go away.

Grealish is ace and anyone who says otherwise is absolute crazy, we should all get behind this lad, get behind him because we want him to keep progressing as he is. Personally I don't know how any of you fans can slate him in anyway, he's our player and deserves our utmost respect and support..

Edited September 19, 2018 by Dave-R

[Cjay]

3 hours ago, bobzy said:

He's comfortably the best player in the Championship and it's not overrating Grealish to say that.  He's only just turned 23 and his ceiling is far higher than anything Aston Villa are likely to be doing in the next 5 seasons.

People will often use stats to backup claims - sometimes they do show a true picture, sometimes they don't.  For example, Ruben Neves being in the Championship last season was ridiculous, but I'd be willing to bet his goals/assists record is actually pretty shit.  He was always the player breaking up play and moving the ball forward to create attacks.  If there was a statistic for "assist to an assist", you'd see Neves being right up there.  This is similar to how Grealish is.  Naturally, some more end product would be delightful, but otherwise we should just enjoy him whilst he's here.

To demonstrate, just view the 90 second Sky highlights of our 2-0 win against Rotherham last night.  The first highlight is Grealish chasing down a ball, forcing the player to backpass to the keeper who fluffs his clearance to Grealish. First touch perfect, weight of pass to McGinn overlapping is perfect so it's a first time cross for McGinn and a chance for Kodjia.  Second clip is our first goal, ball comes to Grealish who has Hourihane in acres of space to the side of him and screaming for the ball - but he doesn't use him, he waits for an opening then puts a ball forward to Kodjia instead, who flicks through to Abraham to score.  "Assist to an assist".  Our second goal is a throw-in taken by El Mohamady to Grealish, after he's worked some space.  One touch (perfect weight again) back to El Mohamady who can hit a first time cross for Bolasie to score.  "Assist to an assist".

Statistically, we scored 2 and Grealish has 0 goals, 0 assists.  However, he's completely vital to how we play and way better than anything else we have.

Now that Neves has left the league, he's the best player in it.

Id have Pablo Hernandez above Grealish for a start, Bolasie, Ollie Watkins, even Bradley Dack looked a better player then Grealish in that game, i dont think he is comfortably the best player in the league at all, not imo. 

I understand your point, assists to assist, but if he is playing in an offensive position, which he is meant to be then he should be doing more in the final 3rd imo, on Neves despite him being a holding midfielder, he scored more goals then Grealish last season, as did many more players who are comparative. 

Assist to assist is fine mate i really do get it, Samu Saiz is simlar as said before, he  laid on 4 chances last night where his teammate really should have scored, he was key for another goal in the buildup, statistically he got nothing, but in reality if his teammates did there jobs he could and should have had atleast 4 assists last night plus the "asisst to an assist". 

I mean i didnt say Saiz earlier but you could make a case for Saiz being a better player right now then Grealish. 

I dont doubt he is vital to you.

But, he isnt the best player in the league mate, not for me, and i think if most Villa fans took of there Claret glasses they would say the same. How can he be better then Yannick Bolasie for example? a proven Premier League player?

I dont question he has talent, but right now, yeah i do question the hype some Villa fans give him. 

Neves was a league above this league, Helder Costa, Diogo Jota, RObert Snodgrass, James Maddison, they all looked to good for this league last season, and now have gone on so far to do well in the Prem, Grealish has yet to show that level of consistency in the Championship never mind the Prem. 

I dont say things to wind people up lol to be clear, its just my opinion.

But what i will say, if you check other clubs forums last season, the players i mentioned above got huge praise from opposition fans (as did our very own Samu Saiz and PAblo Hernandez) Grealish was said to be "talented with potential, but at the moment not Premier league class".

Most oppo fans are unbiased, i always like to hear opposition fans opinions on our players, because we all get attached to certain players and to us they can do no wrong, but opposition fans dont have that sentimental connection and can look at a player unbiased in my view. 

I fully understand your point of view. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Cjay

[Czechlad]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

Bolasie is better than grealish 

No doubt a fit Bolasie is the best player in the squad. 

[rodders0223]

I actually quite like him on the left, I don't think it's where Jack wants to play as Bruce had to instruct him many times to stay wide, and it's not where I want him long term but I think it has it's advantages, and it allows us to get even more ball playing quality in the middle.

He gets the ball higher up the pitch and often in more space, he is able to open up his body and fire in passes to the front man first time and quickly, when you switch play you know his touch is going to be golden. If he had a flying full back coming up behind him, giving him license to drift inside that would be amazing..