Cjay Posted September 16, 2018 Visiting Supporter Share Posted September 16, 2018 (edited) I have a question. Not a wind up just a question to those who blame Steve Bruce for Grealish under performing, saying its because of Bruces style, or his teammates or whatever. Pablo Hernandez at 32 was directly responsible for 38% of the points Paul Heckingbottom achieved. Either scoring or assisting, and we were worse then you are now, we were hopeless. So, my question is. If an ageing past his prime Pablo Hernandez can drag a terrible Leeds side (without your strong squad) and with an even worse manager then Bruce, if Pablo can directly earn us points in spite of the circumstances, why cant Grealish? Edited September 16, 2018 by Cjay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 25 minutes ago, Cjay said: If an ageing past his prime Pablo Hernandez can drag a terrible Leeds side (without your strong squad) and with an even worse manager then Bruce, if Pablo can directly earn us points in spite of the circumstances, why cant Grealish? It's a combination of various factors imo. I suppose the lad could if he was not kicked hell out of each game spending the majority of it on the floor and well, how we are setup and motivated also plays a part too I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Thought he was average yesterday. If there is one bad habit he has it's that he doesn't let the ball go a tad earlier. He'll be fine though. As a unit we lack confidence at the minute. All coming from the management 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrUnKeNbUm Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 18 minutes ago, Johnnyp said: Thought he was average yesterday. If there is one bad habit he has it's that he doesn't let the ball go a tad earlier. He'll be fine though. As a unit we lack confidence at the minute. All coming from the management He did the same thing during our poor spell last season, almost like he has been told to draw the foul. He seemed really frustrated yesterday and personally I would have subbed him off Lad has so much talent it's easy to see why he stays on the pitch thoigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Cjay said: If an ageing past his prime Pablo Hernandez can drag a terrible Leeds side (without your strong squad) and with an even worse manager then Bruce, if Pablo can directly earn us points in spite of the circumstances, why cant Grealish? Because he is massively overrated & not actually that good is the simple answer. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Cjay said: I have a question. Not a wind up just a question to those who blame Steve Bruce for Grealish under performing, saying its because of Bruces style, or his teammates or whatever. Pablo Hernandez at 32 was directly responsible for 38% of the points Paul Heckingbottom achieved. Either scoring or assisting, and we were worse then you are now, we were hopeless. So, my question is. If an ageing past his prime Pablo Hernandez can drag a terrible Leeds side (without your strong squad) and with an even worse manager then Bruce, if Pablo can directly earn us points in spite of the circumstances, why cant Grealish? Because he’s actually following the managers orders and working hard at Cm. His best work yesterday was in the fullback position winning the ball, beating a man and laying it off. He should be given the freedom to play higher up where he will beat people in a dangerous position. Plus he gets kicked to kingdom come with little to no protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Cjay said: I have a question. Not a wind up just a question to those who blame Steve Bruce for Grealish under performing, saying its because of Bruces style, or his teammates or whatever. Pablo Hernandez at 32 was directly responsible for 38% of the points Paul Heckingbottom achieved. Either scoring or assisting, and we were worse then you are now, we were hopeless. So, my question is. If an ageing past his prime Pablo Hernandez can drag a terrible Leeds side (without your strong squad) and with an even worse manager then Bruce, if Pablo can directly earn us points in spite of the circumstances, why cant Grealish? Not on the same level but look at what Sarri said about Hazard yesterday after the game.... He spends too much time dicking about too far back the pitch as opposed to hitting teams where it hurts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 56 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: Because he’s actually following the managers orders and working hard at Cm. His best work yesterday was in the fullback position winning the ball, beating a man and laying it off. He should be given the freedom to play higher up where he will beat people in a dangerous position. Plus he gets kicked to kingdom come with little to no protection. So if he is at full back, what are the full backs doing?.......a decent one would tell him to **** off up field and let him get on with his job. There is far too much of this in our team......if they ain't good enough to do their own job, they shouldn't have the shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Cjay said: I have a question. Not a wind up just a question to those who blame Steve Bruce for Grealish under performing, saying its because of Bruces style, or his teammates or whatever. Pablo Hernandez at 32 was directly responsible for 38% of the points Paul Heckingbottom achieved. Either scoring or assisting, and we were worse then you are now, we were hopeless. So, my question is. If an ageing past his prime Pablo Hernandez can drag a terrible Leeds side (without your strong squad) and with an even worse manager then Bruce, if Pablo can directly earn us points in spite of the circumstances, why cant Grealish? His starting position is too deep most of the time. Our very slow build up play means that the ball fails to get to him most of the time so the lad tracks back to collect the ball and then carries it forwards. He's usually run 40-50 yards with the ball, getting kicked and trying to dodge tackles in the process, before then having to either shoot or lay it off. Jack needs to be further up the pitch with the ball reaching him quicker for him to be seen at his best. Having said that, right now, he's not at his best. I think that maybe the shenanigans of the summer have played a part in his poorish start to the season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Think Jack will eventually play much deeper but the big issue is he gets ZERO protection in this league. 3 or 4 times he was clattered yesterday and one yellow card was given. Another is the supporting staff around him. Except for Adomah our attack was nobody he played with last season in that role. Jedi is a defensive player so dont count him in attacking sense but Hourihane, Snodgrass, BB or Hogan/Grabban arent there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 1 hour ago, TRO said: So if he is at full back, what are the full backs doing?.......a decent one would tell him to **** off up field and let him get on with his job. There is far too much of this in our team......if they ain't good enough to do their own job, they shouldn't have the shirt. Obeying orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjay Posted September 16, 2018 Visiting Supporter Share Posted September 16, 2018 4 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said: It's a combination of various factors imo. I suppose the lad could if he was not kicked hell out of each game spending the majority of it on the floor and well, how we are setup and motivated also plays a part too I guess. He does get kicked a lot, saw that the other night. But, he isnt alone. If he really is to good for the league as some think then he should still make an impact surely? Different league of course but Messi gets kicked from pillar to post, his class still shines through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjay Posted September 16, 2018 Visiting Supporter Share Posted September 16, 2018 2 hours ago, LakotaDakota said: Because he is massively overrated & not actually that good is the simple answer. I mean i wouldn't like to say that myself because i dont want to argue. But yes, i agree to an extent, i thought some of the stuff written about him was silly. Talented, sure. But better then Dele Ali or James Maddison even, no not for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjay Posted September 16, 2018 Visiting Supporter Share Posted September 16, 2018 2 hours ago, mikeyp102 said: Because he’s actually following the managers orders and working hard at Cm. His best work yesterday was in the fullback position winning the ball, beating a man and laying it off. He should be given the freedom to play higher up where he will beat people in a dangerous position. Plus he gets kicked to kingdom come with little to no protection. You can be a good team player and do your defensive duties but still have an impact going forward though. I take the point about Bruce maybe expecting to much defensively. But the lad has 9 career league goals and 10 assists at 23. Thats less then some players get in 1 season. Bruce or no Bruce doesnt that suggest he has a problem with making the difference when it matters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 28 minutes ago, Cjay said: You can be a good team player and do your defensive duties but still have an impact going forward though. I take the point about Bruce maybe expecting to much defensively. But the lad has 9 career league goals and 10 assists at 23. Thats less then some players get in 1 season. Bruce or no Bruce doesnt that suggest he has a problem with making the difference when it matters? It not necessarily about goals or assists though. Last season especially he was drawing in 3 men, laying the ball off to adomah/Snodgrass running behind the defence who then had acres of space to pick out someone for a tap in. Yes we want more final ball from him, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t having impact on games. He’s not at his best this season admittedly but I’m still certain he’ll have a higher ceiling than Maddison and play for England for a long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjay Posted September 16, 2018 Visiting Supporter Share Posted September 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: It not necessarily about goals or assists though. Last season especially he was drawing in 3 men, laying the ball off to adomah/Snodgrass running behind the defence who then had acres of space to pick out someone for a tap in. Yes we want more final ball from him, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t having impact on games. He’s not at his best this season admittedly but I’m still certain he’ll have a higher ceiling than Maddison and play for England for a long time Very true. Sounds much like Samu Saiz actually. Goals and assist wise he and Grealish are on par, 1 each. But you could say about Saiz what you said about Grealish so i fully understand. He may not be putting it in the net or on someones foot to tap in but he is making a difference somehow. But i suppose the difference so far is we sit top, so the fans can accept the lack of end product from Samu. If we were you id be very frustrated with him. Imo a number 10 should be making the difference, they should be the player who is doing the important things when the teams struggling. I think perhaps that is where Grealish is letting you down. Special players do special things when the chips are down. Cant judge his potential so i leave that to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjay Posted September 16, 2018 Visiting Supporter Share Posted September 16, 2018 3 hours ago, sparrow1988 said: Not on the same level but look at what Sarri said about Hazard yesterday after the game.... He spends too much time dicking about too far back the pitch as opposed to hitting teams where it hurts. Is that Bruces fault, Jacks fault or a combination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Cjay said: I have a question. Not a wind up just a question to those who blame Steve Bruce for Grealish under performing, saying its because of Bruces style, or his teammates or whatever. Pablo Hernandez at 32 was directly responsible for 38% of the points Paul Heckingbottom achieved. Either scoring or assisting, and we were worse then you are now, we were hopeless. So, my question is. If an ageing past his prime Pablo Hernandez can drag a terrible Leeds side (without your strong squad) and with an even worse manager then Bruce, if Pablo can directly earn us points in spite of the circumstances, why cant Grealish? Because it’s nothing to do with Bruce. Grealish has just been shit and letting us down. Edited September 16, 2018 by Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjay Posted September 16, 2018 Visiting Supporter Share Posted September 16, 2018 2 hours ago, villarocker said: His starting position is too deep most of the time. Our very slow build up play means that the ball fails to get to him most of the time so the lad tracks back to collect the ball and then carries it forwards. He's usually run 40-50 yards with the ball, getting kicked and trying to dodge tackles in the process, before then having to either shoot or lay it off. Jack needs to be further up the pitch with the ball reaching him quicker for him to be seen at his best. Having said that, right now, he's not at his best. I think that maybe the shenanigans of the summer have played a part in his poorish start to the season. Thats perhaps where Jack needs to be more selfish then? Or more aware of space. Is he trying to do to much, he is a number 10, be a bit more selfish, tracking back is fine, Saiz does it for us, but he is always available for the forward pass, in space on the half turn. He cant do everyones job for them, if the build up is slow then thats down to his teammates and manager, or him himself for not making himself available in a more offensive position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 His main strength, for me, is in the transition as he has both excellent dribbling ability and weight of pass. Obviously this would terrify a stretched defence as he can either beat you himself or pick out one of the forward runners. Problem is most of the time we have no **** forward runners just an isolated lone striker and once we win the ball back 9 times out of 10 we either hoof it forward or play it backwards/very slow tempo. So he’s having to come far too deep to see the ball and try passes/dribbles which aren’t really on as there are little to no options bar gettting in wide so we can put in cross number 67 of the game. He hasn’t been great but I’m not surprised and also not surprised he’s looking frustrated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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