villa4europe Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Saka will take the heat, Southgate being the man that he is will try and deflect it on to himself Rashford and Sancho the 2 players he brought on to take penalties and who both missed will be largely forgotten... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted July 12, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, Thug said: The kind of leadership that Keppa showed when he refused to come off for Chelsea? Saying he was better than the keeper that the manager wanted to bring on? Because that’s called being petty and arrogant. It’s not called leadership. Penalty takers had been decided before hand. This would have been discussed and planned. For Jack to suddenly say at the last minute ‘no, I’ll take this.. not Saka’ would be arrogance beyond belief. Just like you can't cherry pick incidents to justify your argument. Where not talking about a player, we're talking about the manager of a country at a major tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallisFrizz Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 48 minutes ago, QldVilla said: I haven't decided anything, maybe you need to look at things objectively than with rose tinted glasses. If Southgate's narrative is correct and they have been decided on 100's of penalties over the past month in training, where was Jack? He either didn't participate or wasn't seen to be good enough by the coaching staff in the sessions to be in the Top 5, take your pick. I can well believe that there either may be 5 better penalty takers than Jack or that at least Southgate thinks there it. I don’t buy this ridiculous argument from various parties that Jack should have overruled the decision of the manager to stop Saka taking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted July 12, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, WallisFrizz said: I can well believe that there either may be 5 better penalty takers than Jack or that at least Southgate thinks there it. I don’t buy this ridiculous argument from various parties that Jack should have overruled the decision of the manager to stop Saka taking it. Nor do I. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thug Posted July 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Saka will take the heat, Southgate being the man that he is will try and deflect it on to himself Rashford and Sancho the 2 players he brought on to take penalties and who both missed will be largely forgotten... Saka will take no heat at all. Not even in the slightest. Every single player that didn't take a penalty will take more heat than Saka, and Southgate will take the most heat of all. And that is exactly how it should be. I hold no ill feeling at all to any of the three that missed a penalty. Balls of steel to take one, and all should be commended for stepping up. For me the game was not lost on penalties. The game was lost when it was decided that we would play with 8 defenders and try to bore our way to the title. As much as it pains me to say it - Football won today. There should never be a reward for the way that we tried to win this tournament - although I would gladly have taken it. 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recircle Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 30 minutes ago, Thug said: The kind of leadership that Keppa showed when he refused to come off for Chelsea? Saying he was better than the keeper that the manager wanted to bring on? Because that’s called being petty and arrogant. It’s not called leadership. Penalty takers had been decided before hand. This would have been discussed and planned. Keane gets to write his script with the benefit of hindsight. Because such-and-such a player didn't score, he was never going to score. But he could've scored, nevertheless. And then Roy's wise-after-the-event script would've read differently ("Saka and Sancho have show amazing character and nerve there, to go up and score those penalties. Maybe being older and thinking about the responsibility and the importance of the occasion caused Kane and Maguire to miss, and you really have to question why Gareth didn't put up more young players, who don't overthink and can just live in the moment to take one"). I just wish Keane hadn't singled out Sterling and Grealish alone when he made his point. Shaw and Stones and Philips were still on and could equally have had a go, if they'd 'shown leadership' and 'ability to step up'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I think Rashford should take heat, that was a shocking penalty! Also before the penalties you see Southgate point to Grealish and say you’re 6th and Grealish nods, that was the number he was chosen to be by Southgate. You don’t argue with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, deck said: Shaw and Stones and Philips were still on and could equally have had a go, if they'd 'shown leadership' and 'ability to step up'. Exactly in these Euros Jack: 151 minutes, Saka 220 minutes. Jack has a total of 640 England minutes to Saka’s 612 Hardly a seasoned international. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted July 12, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, deck said: Keane gets to write his script with the benefit of hindsight. Because such-and-such a player didn't score, he was never going to score. But he could've scored, nevertheless. And then Roy's wise-after-the-event script would've read differently ("Saka and Sancho have show amazing character and nerve there, to go up and score those penalties. Maybe being older and thinking about the responsibility and the importance of the occasion caused Kane and Maguire to miss, and you really have to question why Gareth didn't put up more young players, who don't overthink and can just live in the moment to take one"). I just wish Keane hadn't singled out Sterling and Grealish alone when he made his point. Shaw and Stones and Philips were still on and could equally have had a go, if they'd 'shown leadership' and 'ability to step up'. The managers role is also to identify during play that Saka, was not playing well when brought on and playing like a deer in headlights. This isn't an indictment of Saka, the kid is 19 yrs old. Southgate or his coaching staff should have identified it and thought hey, might not be the best idea for the lad to take a penalty. You can have the best laid plans, but in war you need to adapt, and Southgate didn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Thug said: Exactly in these Euros Jack: 151 minutes, Saka 220 minutes. Jack has a total of 640 England minutes to Saka’s 612 Hardly a seasoned international. God that’s embarrassing isn’t it! England’s best player with over an hours less football than fecking Saka! Okay Saka had one good game on his first appearance, but he was complimented with Jack on the other wing opening up pockets of space for him in that game, the other games he has played in he has been in ominous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Tommo_b said: I think Rashford should take heat, that was a shocking penalty! Other than hitting the post and not going in I thought it was a well taken penalty. Edited July 12, 2021 by fruitvilla 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLillis Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Just imagine the fallout if Jack had missed a penalty. I for one…. am glad he didn’t take one 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, QldVilla said: I haven't decided anything, maybe you need to look at things objectively than with rose tinted glasses. If Southgate's narrative is correct and they have been decided on 100's of penalties over the past month in training, where was Jack? He either didn't participate or wasn't seen to be good enough by the coaching staff in the sessions to be in the Top 5, take your pick. What does him being good enough to take penalties have to do with his bottle? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: Other than hitting the post and not going in I thought it was a well taken penalty. It was a poor penalty. Keeper had already dived the wrong way, could’ve just tapped it home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I hope this experience has taught him that at times it's better being a big fish in a smaller pond. He is central to Aston Villa with a genuine affinity to the club. If he opts to go to Citeh, I hope he stipulates that Sterling needs to be sold, otherwise he'll never see the ball during his odd minute playing here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 12, 2021 Moderator Share Posted July 12, 2021 In 400 club games Sterling has taken four penalties and scored only once, In 240 club games, Jack has taken two, one in the Albion shootout that he scored and one that he missed. Bugger off Roy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Thug said: It was a poor penalty. Keeper had already dived the wrong way, could’ve just tapped it home. He sent the keeper the wrong way He did tap it (but not home as you point out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, QldVilla said: Just like you can't cherry pick incidents to justify your argument. Where not talking about a player, we're talking about the manager of a country at a major tournament. This is your original quote that I quoted: “Yes you can, its called leadership. Leadership by the manager and leadership from the senior players.” It’s all getting very confusing, and maybe I haven’t read all your posts, but at times you’re saying the players had a duty to take responsibility away from the young players, and in other posts you’re saying it’s up to the manager. Aplogies if your posts are being taken out of context, maybe you can clarify what it is that you’re actually saying? I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with you every other post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Just now, fruitvilla said: He sent the keeper the wrong way He did tap it (but not home as you point out) Yh, I meant he didn’t need to go right for the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Grealish getting pelters now for not taking a penalty. That's a giant assumption he didn't want to and Southgate said he chose who took them 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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