Global Warming

[villakram]

Maybe due to our changing climate, maybe not.

The 2020 fireseason reviewed by required reading from Jeff Masters.

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2021/01/reviewing-the-horrid-global-2020-wildfire-season/

"On December 31, 2019, one of the most intense wildfire events in world history affected southeast Australia, generating a massive fire-induced thunderstorm cloud called a pyrocumulonimbus (pyroCb). The fires were so intense that they created a spinning bubble of heat and smoke 1,000 kilometers (621 miles) in diameter; the smoke penetrated into the stratosphere and persisted for more than 13 weeks, circling the globe. Chemical reactions within the bubble created a mini-ozone hole that depleted stratospheric ozone by up to 100 Dobson units (over 30% of the total) at its center.

The fires injected enough ash into the stratosphere to rival the impact of a moderate-sized volcanic eruption, and they were the largest source of aerosol particles to the stratosphere since the 1991 eruption of the Philippines’ Mt. Pinatubo, according to a September 2020 study led by Sergey Khaykin, a scientist at the Laboratory of Atmospheric Research and Satellite Observations at Sorbonne University in France."

Edited January 7, 2021 by villakram

[maqroll]

Grim reading.

Quote

Climate change is upending the world as we know it, and coping with it demands widespread, radical action.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/25/opinion/new-normal-climate-catastrophes.html

[Davkaus]

If there's one thing I've taken from covid and how the public have reacted to some relatively minor inconveniences like mask wearing (no, I'm not saying lockdown is a minor inconvenience), it's that if there is change required in the behaviour of the general public to combat climate change, we're just **** doomed.

We're too selfish, stupid and lazy. We need a miracle. 

[maqroll]

I've just watched a couple of good auto racing documentaries. But it got me thinking that it's an emissions nightmare. Then I got to thinking about North American team sports where teams fly all the time, year round. It's really wasteful. Better division realignment based on geography would help, but only marginally. Hopefully teams can charter electric coaches in the future, but planes are a massive polluter.

I've also been thinking about the ethics of pet ownership in a climate breakdown era. Pet food alone requires an endless supply of beef, and it's problematic. I suppose you could add so many things to the list.

[villakram]

3 hours ago, maqroll said:

I've just watched a couple of good auto racing documentaries. But it got me thinking that it's an emissions nightmare. Then I got to thinking about North American team sports where teams fly all the time, year round. It's really wasteful. Better division realignment based on geography would help, but only marginally. Hopefully teams can charter electric coaches in the future, but planes are a massive polluter.

I've also been thinking about the ethics of pet ownership in a climate breakdown era. Pet food alone requires an endless supply of beef, and it's problematic. I suppose you could add so many things to the list.

Haha, could you imagine the cognitive dissonance if owning cats was verboten amongst the militant environment & vegan crowd!

[Davkaus]

2 minutes ago, villakram said:

Haha, could you imagine the cognitive dissonance if owning cats was verboten amongst the militant environment & vegan crowd!

"haha, that'd **** show those arseholes trying to make a difference". That's what you sound like.

Who are you going to take the piss out of next, people who don't litter? **** snowflakes.

[HanoiVillan]

35 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

"haha, that'd **** show those arseholes trying to make a difference". That's what you sound like.

Who are you going to take the piss out of next, people who don't litter? **** snowflakes.

The way it's worded is flippant, but the point is fair. Cats and dogs are environmentally-destructive, and I say this as someone who both wants to do right by the environment and loves my dog and struggles to imagine being without them. It's a hard problem, but it does exist.

[Davkaus]

9 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

The way it's worded is flippant, but the point is fair. Cats and dogs are environmentally-destructive, and I say this as someone who both wants to do right by the environment and loves my dog and struggles to imagine being without them. It's a hard problem, but it does exist.

There's definitely a fair point to be made, and @maqroll made it. Villakram seems more keen on using it as a stick to try to beat people with that he otherwise disagrees with rather than engaging in anything resembling a discussion though.

Pretty much everything we do is pretty shit for the planet. The best thing a human can do to reduce their carbon footprint is not have kids. The second best thing is probably to commit suicide.

It's a grim position to be in, because as my post a few up suggests, I think we're just doomed. We don't have a desire to change, and we won't do so until it's clearly far too late and extinction is looking us in the face. So from a game theory perspective, I look at the world with disillusion and wonder why I should bother trying. Nations and multi-nationals pumping out pollution without a care in the world but I'm meant to be washing out my marmite jars? If governments wanted to turn this tide they would, but for years they've pushed the "choice" on to consumers pretending that we're responsible through individual action.

[HanoiVillan]

3 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I look at the world with disillusion and wonder why I should bother trying. Nations and multi-nationals pumping out pollution without a care in the world but I'm meant to be washing out my marmite jars? If governments wanted to turn this tide they would, but for years they've pushed the "choice" on to consumers pretending that we're responsible through individual action.

It's definitely true that governments have shirked responsibility (of course ably assisted by voters) and tried to pretend that saving the planet is a consumption preference. It's a point I've made on here before. I do think the tide is turning slightly though, in that this crisis has created a need for infrastructure investment and this is clearly a promising area for spending money.

[maqroll]

Interesting to look back at the poll result for this thread. I wonder how many people would change their vote now?

[magnkarl]

8 hours ago, Davkaus said:

"haha, that'd **** show those arseholes trying to make a difference". That's what you sound like.

Who are you going to take the piss out of next, people who don't litter? **** snowflakes.

The production of cat\dog food alone accounts for massive amounts of emissions. When you add in the biological destruction that cats inflict on native wildlife in areas that they aren't supposed to be it almost turns into a no-brainer to go for something like a rabbit rather than a cat\dog.

Quote

Predation by domestic cats is the number-one direct, human-caused threat to birds in the United States and Canada.

In the United States alone, outdoor cats kill approximately 2.4 billion birds every year. Although this number may seem unbelievable, it represents the combined impact of tens of millions of outdoor cats. Each outdoor cat plays a part.

PS: I've had dogs all my life and cats parts of it, and I too find this issue paradoxical and highly internally contentious.

[OutByEaster?]

What are the likely effects we'll see this year?

More fires in Australia/California? Flooding in Bangladesh? 

It feels like the symptoms of climate change are getting clearer every year but that we haven't yet had the single event that has a massive effect on attitudes - I guess Bangladesh could be that if we have ten million people trying to cross a border this autumn as climate refugees.

[chrisp65]

We do spend more time and money on cats and dogs than on third world children.

Then every now and again the third world bites us, and we are gobsmacked.

It’s a bit like wondering what’s the best for the planet, my hybrid vehicle, or a newer all electric vehicle? Whilst ignoring that there are over 100 million people in Bangladesh that need firewood to cook rice.

I suspect we’re a bit screwed.

And I’m not excluding myself from being a major contributor to the problem.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

I had a idea about the Climate.  We should make it a country.

So it has representatives on all the major groups (UN etc).

It has voting rights,  sets target and can issue fines and also it can never give money but only receive and redistribute this money to for eg. 100 million people in Bangladesh as mentioned above would be a task set out from the Climate country to be solved by X.  It should be that it is not viewed as possible to not achieve these tasks whereas if they are lagging in delivery then more money is added.  

This would be good for them and also for the climate long term.  (No burning stuff every day x 100 M people is a lot of smoke,  with fire)

It was a dream I must admit.

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Amsterdam_Neil_D

[sidcow]

14 hours ago, villakram said:

Haha, could you imagine the cognitive dissonance if owning cats was verboten amongst the militant environment & vegan crowd!

I seem to recall 80's pop star Howard Jones had a vegetarian dog, I'm sure they would try the same with cats though I feel it should be classed as animal cruelty. 

[sidcow]

14 hours ago, villakram said:

Haha, could you imagine the cognitive dissonance if owning cats was verboten amongst the militant environment & vegan crowd!

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by sidcow

[sidcow]

12 hours ago, maqroll said:

Interesting to look back at the poll result for this thread. I wonder how many people would change their vote now?

That is quite amazing actually, the numbers for not likely and no way is astonishing even for 10 years ago. 

Once again its the same thing.  Majority of respected scientists tell us what's going on. 

Large portions of the population decide they know better and seek out the hugely in the minority scientists and unqualified commentators to support their views.

[villakram]

18 hours ago, Davkaus said:

"haha, that'd **** show those arseholes trying to make a difference". That's what you sound like.

Who are you going to take the piss out of next, people who don't litter? **** snowflakes.

Who's more sensitive? You or I, argh... 

[maqroll]

 

[HanoiVillan]

A remarkable statistic from an FT article:

'But far more problematic than transport, according to experts, will be the greening of the UK’s housing stock, which the CCC estimates will require £11.7bn of average annual investment over the next 30 years — and a massive shift in consumer attitudes.

A 2020 poll by Energy Systems Catapult, a non-profit organisation, found that 49 per cent of people did not even consider their gas boilers as contributing to global warming — even though they account for almost one-fifth of carbon emissions.

The gap in public understanding is a huge challenge, according to Joss Garman of the European Climate Foundation, another non profit organisation. “Right now there is a big gulf about where the policy conversation is on decarbonising heat and where the public conversation is,” he said.'

from: https://www.ft.com/content/fdbfd592-4455-44be-a1b1-a689ee32e2aa

An incredible triumph that people feel shame and embarrassment about going on holiday or using the wrong recycling box, but half of people don't know that a gas boiler runs on gas.