Global Warming and Climate Protest

[bickster]

15 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

They've gone after some private jets this time, that's more like it. Shame they didn't get Swift's.

Yep, you won't find me arguing with that. Damn I thought they got Swift's

[chrisp65]

26 minutes ago, bickster said:

EH are only really bothered about the stones though aren't they. I doubt they've had the Lichen experts in and I doubt the effect on the lichen would be readily apparent yet

Personally, to worry about rare lichen in this instance, but less so when deciding if we need a nuclear power station or HS2 or an Olympic Park, or Haverfordwest Free Port or Heathrow extension, or disposable clothing from Primark worn twice then dumped in landfill, well it feels like perhaps it’s looking for something to get upset about.

I absolutely know these things are not linear, but I’d address fertiliser in the river Wye as a priority over potential lichen damage from cornflour on 3 rocks outside Salisbury. 

[bickster]

20 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Personally, to worry about rare lichen in this instance, but less so when deciding if we need a nuclear power station or HS2 or an Olympic Park, or Haverfordwest Free Port or Heathrow extension, or disposable clothing from Primark worn twice then dumped in landfill, well it feels like perhaps it’s looking for something to get upset about.

I absolutely know these things are not linear, but I’d address fertiliser in the river Wye as a priority over potential lichen damage from cornflour on 3 rocks outside Salisbury. 

I'm not worrying about them, just pointing out that the narratives being made in defence of the action is not taking environmental factors into account which you know is a bit stupid given the cause

Tbh, you have to think if JSO have lent their communication skills to the Tory Party both are pitching their messages and actions at just about the most wrong point possible

[DaoDeMings]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

What is the effect of the dye and the cornflower on the rare lichens that grow on the stones?

Some of the lichen is very rare and some are very oddly species that usually only grow in marine environments, so salt is thought to be an essential element for their survival, what the effect of cornflour here is, I don't know but... there's something else I do know about cornflour, it isn't easily soluble in water, so the it'll just wash off in the rain line is rather lacking in knowledge. I presume JSO have never actually done any cooking, even if you make a cornflour paste the water and cornflour soon separate. The it's just cornflour line just proves how little actual brainpower went into the "protest" 

Seems an enormous stretch to criticise the protest on those grounds. ‘I presume JSO have never done any cooking’ - what? 

Again, by far and away the greater threat to lichen, any biodiversity, and indeed Stonehenge, is climate change that is being accelerated by oil and gas companies.

As stated above, English Heritage have reported no damage. The damage to biodiversity caused in large part by oil and gas companies, however, will continue.

Edited June 20 by DaoDeMings

[DaoDeMings]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

English heritage have reported ‘no damage’. Higher risk of damage from wobbly Druids over the next 24 hours.

 

I had a run in with the Anglesey Druids once when I worked on a campsite in Bala. I respect their beliefs and right to practice, but my god were they arseholes

[chrisp65]

9 minutes ago, bickster said:

I'm not worrying about them, just pointing out that the narratives being made in defence of the action is not taking environmental factors into account which you know is a bit stupid given the cause

Tbh, you have to think if JSO have lent their communication skills to the Tory Party both are pitching their messages and actions at just about the most wrong point possible

Just to say, I wouldn’t be defending them. I’m not even sure their campaign works for them. I’m more interested in their ability to cause outrage with publicity stunts. 

[chrisp65]

4 minutes ago, DaoDeMings said:

I had a run in with the Anglesey Druids once when I worked on a campsite in Bala. 

This absolutely needs a pilot episode on BBC 3.

[bickster]

24 minutes ago, DaoDeMings said:

Seems an enormous stretch to criticise the protest on those grounds. ‘I presume JSO have never done any cooking’ - what? 

I pretty much explained why

Where you see criticism, I see comment and questions.

You want criticism of that protest, its easy, don't f***ing attempt to cause outrage at ancient historic monuments, it gets nobody on your side, it gets people to hate JSO more and actually hinders the cause they are trying to promote. Its such a dense thing to do, its so bad that if you put a tin foil hat on, its not hard to imagine that the petrochemical industry put them up to it

[DaoDeMings]

12 minutes ago, bickster said:

I pretty much explained why

Where you see criticism, I see comment and questions.

You want criticism of that protest, its easy, don't f***ing attempt to cause outrage at ancient historic monuments, it gets nobody on your side, it gets people to hate JSO more and actually hinders the cause they are trying to promote. Its such a dense thing to do, its so bad that if you put a tin foil hat on, its not hard to imagine that the petrochemical industry put them up to it

Well, if they’re questions: English Heritage said there’s no damage and oil and gas companies are doing and will continue to do far, far more damage to biodiversity than JSO. That’s their point. If you’re worried about lichen you’re questioning the wrong people.

I’m not entirely behind their methods - I’m torn on it. Putting people off with things like this is a major concern. But I sympathise with their cause, and they’ll certainly be on the right side of history. I wish the debate could happen in a serious way without needing to vandalise heritage sites, but their argument would be that the discussion isn’t happening, hence the need for protests that piss people off. To be fair, they have put oil and gas licences on the political agenda.

[tomav84]

2 hours ago, Davkaus said:

They've gone after some private jets this time, that's more like it. Shame they didn't get Swift's.

thing is with someone like swift, whose net worth now begins with a B rather than an M, and who is as famous as her, i get private jets. it would be a logistical nightmare to have her just rock up at heathrow for a BA flight

its the footballers playing for the likes of palace and everton who could walk past me on the street and i wouldn't recognise them using them for a weekend in dubai that irk me

[Davkaus]

6 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

thing is with someone like swift, whose net worth now begins with a B rather than an M, and who is as famous as her, i get private jets. it would be a logistical nightmare to have her just rock up at heathrow for a BA flight

its the footballers playing for the likes of palace and everton who could walk past me on the street and i wouldn't recognise them using them for a weekend in dubai that irk me

I can absolutely see why she'd want one, but she's often made flights as short as 30 miles because it's more convenient than being driven. Bit of a word removed, imo.

[bickster]

12 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

 it would be a logistical nightmare to have her just rock up at heathrow for a BA flight

Why? it's not like they don't have a specific VIP services at major airports

[tomav84]

16 minutes ago, bickster said:

Why? it's not like they don't have a specific VIP services at major airports

i know i brought up heathrow, but it would be worse on the flight itself. she's a megastar, up there with the the likes of michael jackson and can only imagine how many 'swifties' will be lining the aisles of the aircraft looking to meet her. you can argue that's for the cabin crew to police but what if there's half the plane looking to do it? it's just best for all concerned, even if we all prefer them not to use them...all i'm saying is that i get why they do.

major artists/bands take jets on their world tours these days. foo fighters, guns and roses, etc all do but the finger does seem to get pointed at TS a lot more than others. maybe because she's using them for 30 mile journeys if what @Davkaus says is correct...which i cannot condone.

[sidcow]

What I know is moss and lichen is tremendously important at soaking up carbon dioxide. 

This morning they had a bit of rock they'd coated in cornflower and washed it off but the cornflower had totally integrated itself into the lichen on the rock and the lichen was still discoloured. 

Has it actually damaged it? I've no idea and probably nobody will now without weeks or months of study of the health of the lichen.

But the thing is, that really doesn't matter. It's just a small patch of lichen, probably less than a billionth of 1% of the world's lichen or smaller. 

It's just the bloody stupid optics of climate change protestor targeting a rock covered in lichen. It's stupid and it does them no good at all for their cause. 

There are hundreds of high profile targets that would see them plastered all over the news. I could name a dozen off the top of my head.

Its just plain stupid what they've done. The notion that there is no such thing as bad publicity it wrong. I guarantee people genuinely trying to make a change in others attitude and actions on climate change will have stuff like this thrown back in their face by some currently on the fence about it at the moment. 

Edited June 20 by sidcow

[Mic09]

1 hour ago, tomav84 said:

thing is with someone like swift, whose net worth now begins with a B rather than an M, and who is as famous as her, i get private jets. it would be a logistical nightmare to have her just rock up at heathrow for a BA flight

I disagree with the logic here; just because some people listen to your music and you have a big account it doesn't mean you should just take the piss and do whatever you want.

If anything, an unlimited amount of money enables you to make choices - I don't know, push the concert dates a little further apart so you don't have to take a private jet.

I am not against private jets, they are here to stay for the wealthy, but just because you have billions and you are famous it doesn't mean that you have to/should use them. 

[bickster]

7 minutes ago, sidcow said:

It's just a small patch of lichen, probably less than a billionth of 1% of the world's lichen or smaller. 

actually, its a little more important than that..

Slow Travel (but the source is a scientific paper published in Nature)

Quote

Rare Lichen: Seawater on the stones
Although it is widely accepted that Stonehenge is a mystery which will never be truly known, one of its lesser known mysteries is the presence of ancient lichen which can only usually be found by the sea. The stones are home to over 80 species of lichen; seven of them nationally rare and two of them exceptionally rare. One of these was identified in 1951 as "very rich, active and nearly pure unialgal growths of Hæmatococcus dræbakensis. I believed then that this alga was known only from pools in granite on a small island near Drobak in Norway ; I have learnt since that there is one doubtful record from Wales." (source)

[bobzy]

I’ve don’t think I’ve read the word “lichen” as much in my entire life as I have in the last page of this thread  

[chrisp65]

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

So the only way to avoid 2% temperature rise on rare lichens is to coat them in cornflour.  I was not aware of that. No pain no gain I guess.

Edited June 20 by sidcow

[DaoDeMings]

3 minutes ago, sidcow said:

So the only way to avoid 2% temperature rise on rare lichens is to coat them in cornflour.  I was not aware of that. No pain no gain I guess.

Who do you think is doing more damage to the environment and the rare lichen you care about so much, Just Stop Oil or petrochemical companies? 
 

 

Edited June 20 by DaoDeMings