Bollitics: The General Election 2010 Exit Poll

[Richard]

For the Conservatives to claim that Labour lost the election seems a bit disingenuous. To have a loser you must, logically, have a winner. To claim that Gordon Brown lacks legitimacy and was right to resign having failed to get the majority required, surely Cameron should face the same fate?

Gazton, Labour lost even those in their own party accept this. They lost seats, more than at any time in their history since 1931. They were the sitting party of government and are no longer able to command a majority in parliament. They lost.

To then say that the Liberal Democrats should either enter into a coalition with the Conservatives or provide them with support for a minority government seems to be moving the goalposts somewhat.

If the lib dems entered into a coalition with the Tories it would be a majority government as they wouldcommand more than 50% of the seats. I think both Labour and the Tories are trying to attract the lib dems and get them to form a coalition, which is really now what it is all down to I do not think any goalposts have been moved by the parties , they have been moved by the electorate

I find it distasteful that the Conservatives are throwing their toys out of the pram because the Liberal Democrats won't dilute their ideology enough to support a Cameron government.

Yet the Conservatives must dilute their ideology enough to get that spport? It is all about compromise in negotiations there has to be give and take on both sides

Voters of the Lib Dems voted for a specific set of Lib Dem policies (I would like to think so anyway. The anti-Lab anti-Con argument is hard to prove) and therefore the Lib Dems have a responsibility to attempt to form a government which will provide a legislative agenda as close as is possible to their manifesto.

Similarly voters of the Conservatives also voted for a specifc set of policies, and in greater numbers than those who voted lib dem (that's democracy) and therefore the Conservatives have a responsibility to attempt to form a govt which will provide an agenda as close as possible to the manifesto whcih earned the most votes and most seats. Or whould we just adopt the Lib Dem manifesto now ?

If Clegg can get 75% of his manifesto by supporting a Labour-led coalition, surely that is better to his voters and MPs than getting 50% from a Conservative-led coalition?

I think any tempering of who gets what has to come second to forming a strong stable government, which is imperative in the current state we find ourselves

[mjmooney]

Even as a Labour voter, I'm agin this.

I think the Tories have the right to have a go at it, and the opposition parties should act responsibly - not simply block everything, but act as a sensible brake on policies they feel very strongly about. There will probably be another election within 12 months anyway, and we could see what will happen then.

I like the idea of a permanent Labour/Liberal merge, but I'd like to see that happen in sensible time, whilst in opposition.

[Richard]

I can see positives in any outcome to be honest

[DelboyVilla]

I can't beleive that proportional representation, something most citizens of the this country fully understand or care about enough to want to understand it is playing such a big part in the forming of a governing group after this election??

[mykeyb]

my worry is that the nationalist parties will only side with this rainbow alliance if they are guaranteed that the cuts won't effect their country. So if this alliance happens, will England be heading down the shitter faster than a dodgy Prawn Bhuna?

THIS.

No cuts in Ireland, no cuts in Scotland and no cuts in Wales.

Meanwhile England whose voters by a quite reasonable majority voted for a Tory Government get shafted by the Rainbow Alliance.

Is this how democracy works.

[snowychap]

Even as a Labour voter, I'm agin this.

I think the Tories have the right to have a go at it...

I think that's probably a very popular stance for Labour voters (as it is for Tory voters).

'Have a go at it'?

We're talking about government not who's next up on the karaoke, Mike.

[mykeyb]

It has always seemed more of a constitutional problem, for me, that a minority party (i.e. one that the majority of people have not voted for) has been able to be such an unchallengeable government (Labour and Tory).

Whats a viable alternative?

Unless you make it law that everyone over 18 must vote then its always always going to be the case no matter what type of reform you bring in isnt it?

[LondonLax]

It has always seemed more of a constitutional problem, for me, that a minority party (i.e. one that the majority of people have not voted for) has been able to be such an unchallengeable government (Labour and Tory).

Whats a viable alternative?

Unless you make it law that everyone over 18 must vote then its always always going to be the case no matter what type of reform you bring in isnt it?

No but even amongst those who vote, the winning party doesn't get more than 50% of the popular vote yet they get to make 100% of policy decisions.

[snowychap]

Whats a viable alternative?

We've got another thread on the topic, Mike. Electoral reform.

I'm coming more around to Gringo's bottom up Pyramid style idea (with some very strong objections to bits of it :winkold:).

Unless you make it law that everyone over 18 must vote then its always always going to be the case no matter what type of reform you bring in isnt it?

Ah, right, I get what you mean. Sorry, I did mean the majority of those who voted.

[mjmooney]

I still say they should pick five MPs each, go down to Wembley and have a penalty shootout.

[kidlewis]

I still say they should pick five MPs each, go down to Wembley and have a penalty shootout.

and a goalkeeper each, otherwise that shootout would last a looooooooooooong time.

[snowychap]

I still say they should pick five MPs each, go down to Wembley and have a penalty shootout.

and a goalkeeper each, otherwise that shootout would last a looooooooooooong time.

I'm not so sure - I get the feeling a few might intentionally miss.

[mjmooney]

Or a pub quiz.

[kidlewis]

Or a pub quiz.

with the quiz master getting some questions from Mandelson, who discloses them to him in an informal chat in the toilets.

[Gringo]

I still say they should pick five MPs each, go down to Wembley and have a penalty shootout.

I would guess one of the problems in building the coallition is tory's lack of experience - labour and the libdems have been involved in negotiations for both the welsh and scottish parliaments and probably have a better understanding of the game.

[Awol]

and if you didn't vote then you deliberately sacrificed your voice)

I don't want to sound like former Liberal MP for Southport Ronnie Fearn but……………..on no you didn't, thats utter rubbish, the electorate are there for the politicians to engage with, if they fail to do that then it is only the politicians who can be blamed

People have the option whether to vote or not and I think it's more of a two way process than expecting politicians to always suitably seduce the public. But anyway, my point is that saying "well, X% of people didn't vote for Y" when Z% of X didn't vote at all presents a skewed picture. They chose not to vote so their lack of preference can't be used as a stick to beat any of the runners. It is a valid argument however if you make it about the percentage of those who did vote - which is where I got a Tory popular majority of 6.7% from.

Anyway, it seems even hardened Labour Vet's believe that their leader and his mafia are now taking the living piss - here

David Blunkett, the former Home Secretary, gave public voice to concerns about whether Labour could trust the Lib Dems in a coalition deal, claiming that they were behaving like "every harlot in history."

.....

Mr Blunkett warned that a "coalition of the defeated" would spell electoral disaster for Labour. "If we continue not listening to then we will lose very badly at any subsequent general election," he said.

Mr Cruddas, who could yet be a contender in the leadership contest set off by Gordon Brown's resignation, said that Labour MPs, unions and the party’s ruling National Executive Committee must be consulted on any coalition deal.

"To ensure any agreement is stable and strong, the involvement of the Labour Party should be subject to the full agreement of the Labour Party," Mr Cruddas said.

"The parliamentary party, the NEC and the affiliated trade unions should be formally consulted on the terms of any talks undertaken by the Prime Minister and Cabinet."

John Reid, another former Home Secretary, warned that voters would punish Labour if it tried to "cobble something together that was not in the national interest".

Jack Straw, the Justice Secretary, who has always been opposed to agreements with the Liberals, is said by colleagues to be "incensed" about the moves. One colleague even questioned whether Mr Straw would stay in the Cabinet in such circumstances.

A senior Cabinet source said that Mr Straw was not alone in his reservations. "We had to fight hard to get the AV referendum promise through the PLP. We could never go beyond that. If the Libs are asking us for PR, they won't get it. We can't deliver."

A ministerial source added: "This is obscene. We have to accept that we did not win the election. We lost it. Let's get real."

So if Labour row back from a PR referendum or, as I read earlier, even trying to change the voting system without the sanction of the public then Clegg is back where he was last night...with the offer of an AV referendum from the Tories.

Like I said yesterday, Clegg has **** up big style and you'd have to pretty bonkers to trust him in coalition now. Pity becuase he had the chance to look like a statesman but his ego clearly got the better of him.

[Gingerlad]

So for those of you that didn't vote, I presume you won't moan or critic the new government as you gave up your chance to affect the outcome?

[mykeyb]

I would be interested to hear from our Labour supporting VTers how happy or otherwise they are with the prospect of a Labour led Rainbow Alliance and how stable it will be?

[Demitri_C]

THIS.

No cuts in Ireland, no cuts in Scotland and no cuts in Wales.

Meanwhile England whose voters by a quite reasonable majority voted for a Tory Government get shafted by the Rainbow Alliance.

Is this how democracy works.

if labour did this i dont see how any supporter of theres can defend them, this would just be sickening. id pack my bags and leave.

if toreis did it id do the same, as with lib dems

[snowychap]

So for those of you that didn't vote, I presume you won't moan or critic the new government as you gave up your chance to affect the outcome?

Do you presume that or do you, like many people before and, probably, to come, suggest the same old nonsense that those who did not vote don't have a right to criticize their government?