mole86 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 7 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Back to the drawing board, again. Going to India is super tough, that’s a given, but we’ve been dismissed here like a second rate test side in the past 2-3 games. I hope this is the last time we see Bairstow in the test team, he’s had plenty of opportunities, Sibley is not international standard and if we didn’t already know it our spin bowlers are average at best. I just think reactions like this completely ignore how rare it is for teams to win away from home in test cricket, particularly in ‘alien’ conditions. Not saying we’ve not been humiliated but it’s literally been going on for decades so it can’t be a surprise. Root had won 6 tests away in a row after the 1st test, India were never going to produce a pitch like that after we won that game convincingly. It really isn’t back to the drawing board with regards the home tests, Woakes will play and be great, same for Broad and Anderson. Leach has had a really good winter, Bess is the one who is clearly out of his depth. His five for in Sri Lanka was one of the worst/luckiest you’ll ever see. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) That's a fair post. Our batters in most conditions are fine. But the skills gap to spin does seem larger than it has ever been even allowing for that. Still Bairstow is the only one who can clearly piss off. Burns to come back, albeit his form last year wasn't great either so I think longer term questions on his place are valid. Most importantly protecting the confidence of the likes of Pope after this is going to be important. Also it's been nice to see Dan Lawrence fare better down the order. Asking him to bat at 3 beforehand was very cruel. Hopefully for his sake he can personally show some form with a tidy score, Foakes too knowing he'll be dispensed with regardless after this, hope he can end with a few runs. Edited March 6, 2021 by Rodders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, mole86 said: I just think reactions like this completely ignore how rare it is for teams to win away from home in test cricket, particularly in ‘alien’ conditions. Not saying we’ve not been humiliated but it’s literally been going on for decades so it can’t be a surprise. Root had won 6 tests away in a row after the 1st test, India were never going to produce a pitch like that after we won that game convincingly. It really isn’t back to the drawing board with regards the home tests, Woakes will play and be great, same for Broad and Anderson. Leach has had a really good winter, Bess is the one who is clearly out of his depth. His five for in Sri Lanka was one of the worst/luckiest you’ll ever see. The only way you can be the best is to be good away from home, winning a series at home is expected 8/9 times out of 10. Building a team that can be competitive in the sub-continent and Australia should always be the aim, and we’ve been far from competitive these past few matches. I’m not asking for a series win, I’m just asking to not be made to look like Zimbabwe. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mole86 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Rodders said: That's a fair post. Our batters in most conditions are fine. But the skills gap to spin does seem larger than it has ever been even allowing for that. Still Bairstow is the only one who can clearly piss off. Burns to come back, albeit his form last year wasn't great either so I think longer term questions on his place are valid. Most importantly protecting the confidence of the likes of Pope after this is going to be important. Also it's been nice to see Dan Lawrence fare better down the order. Asking him to bat at 3 beforehand was very cruel. Hopefully for his sake he can personally show some form with a tidy score, Foakes too knowing he'll be dispensed with regardless after this, hope he can end with a few runs. Pope’s been the biggest disappointment for me the last few weeks, he’s obviously not coming in at ideal times of the innings but he has been all over the place 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Shambolic but ive seen it before, they will use the excuse of the 2nd and 3rd test pitch and not criticise the poor batting technique 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 6, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 6, 2021 If Foakes and Lawrence accidentally bat us into a tiny lead here, I'm not sure the rest of the team will be too delighted about having to get back out into the field, even if it is only for five minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) Horror stat alert. England have now gone 70 partnerships in a row without getting to 50 Minnow stuff Edited March 6, 2021 by Zatman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 71 partnerships now. That stat isn't going to end this tour either. All out for under 140 I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 72. Go to bed Dom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Bess tried his best to get out then, blatantly did not want to be out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: Bess tried his best to get out then, blatantly did not want to be out there. His head as gone hasnt it. Its not easy being Englands spinner, unlike the seamers who just rotate. Moeen took nearly 200 wickets but got burnt out because it seemed like the pressure was always on him. Leach has come back and done well. The seamers have it easy. Edited March 6, 2021 by PaulC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 6, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 6, 2021 1 hour ago, PaulC said: His head as gone hasnt it. Its not easy being Englands spinner, unlike the seamers who just rotate. Moeen took nearly 200 wickets but got burnt out because it seemed like the pressure was always on him. Leach has come back and done well. The seamers have it easy. Yeah, his head's gone. He kind of had a lucky streak which ran out, I think. When he got all those wickets in SA and SL he bowled a lot of bad balls, and now he's up against better players fo spin, they've hammered the bad balls and his head dropped, and the threat he posed from having confidence had vanished. I don't think the seamers have it easy at all, though. I think we're lucky that we have a bunch of exceedingly good seam bowlers - Anderson and Broad are amongst the best there have ever been in World cricket. Absolute masters. Archer, Woakes (who hasn't played a single game on tour, despite all that time in the bubble) Olly Stone, Stokes - these are all real quality bowlers. The spinners - there's just not the depth to pick from, so we end up, if we're lucky with one whose OK, unless someone like Graeme Swann turns up once in a while. But anyway the seamers have been bowling in hugely unhelpful conditions and worked their socks off - drying up runs, taking some wickets in the heat and dust. Not easy at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, blandy said: Yeah, his head's gone. He kind of had a lucky streak which ran out, I think. When he got all those wickets in SA and SL he bowled a lot of bad balls, and now he's up against better players fo spin, they've hammered the bad balls and his head dropped, and the threat he posed from having confidence had vanished. I don't think the seamers have it easy at all, though. I think we're lucky that we have a bunch of exceedingly good seam bowlers - Anderson and Broad are amongst the best there have ever been in World cricket. Absolute masters. Archer, Woakes (who hasn't played a single game on tour, despite all that time in the bubble) Olly Stone, Stokes - these are all real quality bowlers. The spinners - there's just not the depth to pick from, so we end up, if we're lucky with one whose OK, unless someone like Graeme Swann turns up once in a while. But anyway the seamers have been bowling in hugely unhelpful conditions and worked their socks off - drying up runs, taking some wickets in the heat and dust. Not easy at all. Yes thats what I mean we have an array of quality seamers so its easier for them, less pressure. We normally pick one spinner and the pressure is on them to do the holding role as well as get wickets in the 2nd innings. if one seamer has a bad day theres three others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 6, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 6, 2021 1 minute ago, PaulC said: if one seamer has a bad day theres three others Not in this test. Anderson and Stokes. Leach, Bess, Root - 3 spinners. In the UK, you're right, but generally the pressure isn't on the spinners over here. Maybe on the last day if the weathers hot at the Oval or somewhere. The other thing is that English spinners rarely encounter pitches like we've had in SL and India, so they almost never get any time bowling on them, to how technique and stuff. Swann bowled at Northampton which was spin friendly and Leach and Bess at Somerset (ditto), but these days the County championship takes place in spring and Autumn when the pitches and overheads are more favourable to seam - at least Swann (and Monty) got to bowl in the height of summer on spinning pitches, though never like the Indian minefields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, blandy said: Not in this test. Anderson and Stokes. Leach, Bess, Root - 3 spinners. In the UK, you're right, but generally the pressure isn't on the spinners over here. Maybe on the last day if the weathers hot at the Oval or somewhere. The other thing is that English spinners rarely encounter pitches like we've had in SL and India, so they almost never get any time bowling on them, to how technique and stuff. Swann bowled at Northampton which was spin friendly and Leach and Bess at Somerset (ditto), but these days the County championship takes place in spring and Autumn when the pitches and overheads are more favourable to seam - at least Swann (and Monty) got to bowl in the height of summer on spinning pitches, though never like the Indian minefields. Yes I am talking overall. I think theres been huge pressure on the spinners since Swann retired. it eventually got to Moeen Ali Edited March 6, 2021 by PaulC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 1 hour ago, PaulC said: Yes thats what I mean we have an array of quality seamers so its easier for them, less pressure. We normally pick one spinner and the pressure is on them to do the holding role as well as get wickets in the 2nd innings. if one seamer has a bad day theres three others. They also are expected to be one of the best batsmen among the bowlers too and is a big part of why they've invested so much time in Bess. Amar Virdi is the most talented spinner I've seen in recent years, especially when it comes to actually spinning the ball but he isn't going to play when he has a batting average like Monty, even though our batting line up had Foakes at number 8 in this match. He was a reserve on this tour but didn't even get a bowl in the inter-squad warm up. I like Leach though, hopefully he stays fit and well from now on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 6, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 6, 2021 I don't think bowling is our problem area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 29 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: They also are expected to be one of the best batsmen among the bowlers too and is a big part of why they've invested so much time in Bess. Amar Virdi is the most talented spinner I've seen in recent years, especially when it comes to actually spinning the ball but he isn't going to play when he has a batting average like Monty, even though our batting line up had Foakes at number 8 in this match. He was a reserve on this tour but didn't even get a bowl in the inter-squad warm up. I like Leach though, hopefully he stays fit and well from now on. I know hes hung around but Leach cant bat. first class average of 11. So if Virdi is that good he should get in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Just now, OutByEaster? said: I don't think bowling is our problem area. Of course hasnt been for a while really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts