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@snowychap I feel like your line manager once took credit for your work at a performance review, and it has scarred you for life!

I wasn't keen on the idea of appointing Root in the first place, and it's just something I mentioned while we were all talking cricket. I don't blame him for the outcome of this series, although I think a better captain might have run Australia closer in this test. The focus on white ball cricket and the hangover from winning the World Cup, as well as a lack of quality at the top of the order, are more obvious explanations for our problems, but I wasn't discounting them.

"His mum irons his whites" was a (perhaps ill-judged) metaphor for being immature and unserious, but never mind. I'll be more literal next time.

But given that, as you say, captains can improve individuals' and teams' performances, I'd hope that we'd look at the role just as we look at every other role in the side, since fine margins decide results. I also think it would give Root more space to focus on being our star batsman.

I wasn't advocating for the "captains make successful teams" cliché, and it wasn't a kneejerk reaction to us losing one match - but can see why you thought that. Really wasn't looking for a row over it, we all enjoy watching the cricket and have our own opinions on it.

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40 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

@snowychap I feel like your line manager once took credit for your work at a performance review, and it has scarred you for life!

Yawn. Pathetic shite.

If that's the best you can come up with then I'm sorry I wasted our time engaging with you this evening. I won't make that mistake again.

Edited by snowychap
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Stokes, Broad and maybe Burns only English players to come out with credit in series 

Pwt Cummins is the new McGrath

Archer after a fluky hit on Smith was all hype. Needed Anderson more 

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6 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Archer after a fluky hit on Smith was all hype.

I think that's beyond harsh. He may not have lived up to all of the hope this game but he bowled really well in the second innings - even when Smith was playing silly buggers.

He has really impressed me with how he has played in test cricket after his rise in the white ball game. I look forward to what he becomes. I think he'll be a real handful.

Edited by snowychap
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13 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Stokes, Broad and maybe Burns only English players to come out with credit in series 

Pwt Cummins is the new McGrath

Archer after a fluky hit on Smith was all hype. Needed Anderson more 

Can't really call Archer's 16 wickets at 19.87 hype, but expectations were very high. He still looks like he'll be a great if he can juggle white ball and test responsibilities (I have a horrible feeling money will drag him towards white ball specialism). He'll be more useful overseas on flat tracks with no swing. Agree we missed Anderson, though.

It's a shame we didn't get to see Anderson, Broad and Archer all bowling together in a test. Our big bowling weakness was our first change, especially in the Old Trafford test.

Edited by KentVillan
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13 minutes ago, Zatman said:

 

Pwt Cummins is the new McGrath

Hazlewood more. Similar styles.

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8 hours ago, snowychap said:

I think that's beyond harsh. He may not have lived up to all of the hope this game but he bowled really well in the second innings - even when Smith was playing silly buggers.

He has really impressed me with how he has played in test cricket after his rise in the white ball game. I look forward to what he becomes. I think he'll be a real handful.

Indeed, considering Archer also nearly broke his arm and hit him on the glove, saying it was a flukey hit on the head is utter dogturd.  He was the only bowler at any stage of the series to have Smith in trouble, and wasting his energy taking the new ball at OT and as a result only having 7 deliveries at Smith when he came to the crease was bonkers.  I'd say that and having Leach batting below Archer and Broad in the first innings whilst may not have made any difference, it showed that Root isn't a proactive captain.

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unchanged squad for the final test. Blimey. 

To be honest, Root's post match press conference sounded like someone who was deluded about the realities of the squad. This confirms it. great opportunity to bin off underperforming egos, even for just one test match, but nah, on they go.

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11 minutes ago, Rodders said:

unchanged squad for the final test. Blimey.

Absolutely crackers.

Even if they go and win the game, it just seems obdurately daft.

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1 hour ago, Rodders said:

unchanged squad for the final test. Blimey. 

To be honest, Root's post match press conference sounded like someone who was deluded about the realities of the squad. This confirms it. great opportunity to bin off underperforming egos, even for just one test match, but nah, on they go.

 

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

Absolutely crackers.

Even if they go and win the game, it just seems obdurately daft.

Exactly....despite the abject failure of Roy, Bairstow and Buttler we keep the same squad !!!!!

They really do think they are better than they actually are !!!!

If ever there was a time for an overhaul.....perhaps it will happen after the test series post mortem.

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21 hours ago, veloman said:

So would you have put Mike Brearley in that bracket? I didn't rate him much as a batsman (but what do I know ) but he got the best out of his players IMO.

He got the best out of Botham with bat and ball. The Aussies used to go the other way pick the team first then captain. Stokes is arguably our best player now so would be no surprise for him to be made next captain. 

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2 hours ago, imavillan said:

 

Exactly....despite the abject failure of Roy, Bairstow and Buttler we keep the same squad !!!!!

They really do think they are better than they actually are !!!!

If ever there was a time for an overhaul.....perhaps it will happen after the test series post mortem.

Some bias towards the World Cup winners I think. Perhaps once Bayliss goes we shall see a bit of a rethink 

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2 hours ago, imavillan said:

 

Exactly....despite the abject failure of Roy, Bairstow and Buttler we keep the same squad !!!!!

They really do think they are better than they actually are !!!!

If ever there was a time for an overhaul.....perhaps it will happen after the test series post mortem.

I think their logic is that change probably makes more sense after this series.

It may not be the best time to bring in new blood when bayliss is on the way out, root's captaincy is in question and the team is probably more likely than not going to lose the next test.

There is some merit in the argument that it's best not to taint any newcomers with these troubles and instead to give them an entirely fresh start. Also gives the likes of Roy, Bairstow and Buttler one last chance to perform before they get the boot. 

That being said I hope for maybe 5 changes come the next test series.

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New Zealand and South Africa are the winter tours. One or two will be dropped but a few new additions to the squad I imagine. 

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3 hours ago, imavillan said:

If ever there was a time for an overhaul.....perhaps it will happen after the test series post mortem.

Bloke on the radio last night said of the current team only really 4 are  "safe"  for NZ and SA tours

Burns , Archer , Stokes and one other might have been Leach ?

Age and being out of form will account for the others

Bairstow might keep a place in the squad as the specialised batsman but the current flaw is he isn't specialising very much with the bat

 

So plenty of spaces up for grabs as part of the overhaul  , if the selectors are brave enough

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41 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Burns , Archer , Stokes and one other might have been Leach ?

Root for sure would be a certain pick, if not as Captain. Bairstow too, IMO and Broad. I think Moeen Ali should be in the squad too.

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27 minutes ago, blandy said:

Root for sure would be a certain pick, if not as Captain. Bairstow too, IMO and Broad. I think Moeen Ali should be in the squad too.

Root might have been the fourth name rather than Leach tbf

Broad is 33 and expected to announce his retirement from test cricket at the oval 

Bairstow I already covered , he shouldn’t be there as wicket keeper and he’s struggling with the bat of late , indeed his test average since 2018 is 25.86 , 20 this summer ... not good enough for a specialist batsman , maybe taking the gloves off him will help his batting and he can then fulfil that role .

Ali  wasn’t in the team that lost the 4th test but I guess is one that could be recalled for the tour 

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16 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Root might have been the fourth name rather than Leach tbf

Broad is 33 and expected to announce his retirement from test cricket at the oval 

Bairstow I already covered , he shouldn’t be there as wicket keeper and he’s struggling with the bat of late , indeed his test average since 2018 is 25.86 , 20 this summer ... not good enough for a specialist batsman , maybe taking the gloves off him will help his batting and he can then fulfil that role .

Ali  wasn’t in the team that lost the 4th test but I guess is one that could be recalled for the tour 

Broad, is he? Crickey. Him and Jimmy going would be a blow. He's been excellent this series, Broad.

Bairstow's one where he was in great form, then all the one days stuff has messed with his test batting. He's definitely good enough to bat in the middle order - 4 to 7 or so.

Ultimately England lack two batsmen for the top 3, there's not so much wrong apart from that major flaw. At least Rory Burns has sort of looked the part.

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Did I read that Farbrace still thinks Root is best bet for England Captain ? Well judging by the great job he has done at Warks (Knocked out of 50 overs almost straight away, knocked out of T20 very early and second from bottom of County Championship) I'm not sure his judgement is particularly good.. 

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17 hours ago, blandy said:

Broad, is he? Crickey. Him and Jimmy going would be a blow. He's been excellent this series, Broad.

 

Jimmy said today he wants to try make the next Ashes tour

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