GaztonVilla Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 thats the bug bear with ONeill - the squad, as you rightly pointed out, isnt there for him to rotate. But the problem is that sqaud after the first 11 has been assembled for massive money by MON............ so we shouldnt use that as an excuse for MON but more as a stick to beat his luckycharm eating head with !! You're half right, in my opinion.. The squad he has assembled lacks the quality for rotation while chasing a Top 4 finish. However, this squad has been assembled from a position of 16th. It's an evolutionary process. Moving from 16th to within 2 games of finishing 4th doesn't happen with the click of his fingers. The squad he has assembled is enough for us to finish Top 10, and the first XI got us close to the promised land. Now the evolution continues and the lesser players get moved out and replaced with sufficient quality to supplement the quality of our first XI. Even with the massive financial resources that Man City have at their disposal, they haven't been able to achieve Champions League football in the timescales they wanted. Spurs have achieved it, but it wasn't an overnight achievement for them either. We're on the right track, I believe. With some tweaking I'm sure we will get there. But a squad of quality cannot be assembled overnight, especially given the weak starting position MON was handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claret75 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I think MON has a great eye for a player on the whole - Dunney and Milner are the best two examples for me - and has built a really good squad on a (relatively) limited budget. did I just don't think he knows how to use that squad properly! If he had a better squad im sure hed know exactly how to use it. Lets face it, the quality in the squad isnt there at the mo. Im in the minority in thinking MON didnt have much of a squad to rotate last year, either certain players werent quite ready or were injured or just didnt look the part. thats the bug bear with ONeill - the squad, as you rightly pointed out, isnt there for him to rotate. But the problem is that sqaud after the first 11 has been assembled for massive money by MON............ so we shouldnt use that as an excuse for MON but more as a stick to beat his luckycharm eating head with !! agreed But overall MONs made good signings, not great but good. I agree that if hed spent better on the squad players wed may be top 4 already, but to be fair, its difficult to get everything right. You say hes spent 'massive' money, but in comparison to competing clubs, over the last few years, he hasnt. On balance hes spent well IMO, so im not going to criticise too much him for not using his squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claret75 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 thats the bug bear with ONeill - the squad, as you rightly pointed out, isnt there for him to rotate. But the problem is that sqaud after the first 11 has been assembled for massive money by MON............ so we shouldnt use that as an excuse for MON but more as a stick to beat his luckycharm eating head with !! You're half right, in my opinion.. The squad he has assembled lacks the quality for rotation while chasing a Top 4 finish. However, this squad has been assembled from a position of 16th. It's an evolutionary process. Moving from 16th to within 2 games of finishing 4th doesn't happen with the click of his fingers. The squad he has assembled is enough for us to finish Top 10, and the first XI got us close to the promised land. Now the evolution continues and the lesser players get moved out and replaced with sufficient quality to supplement the quality of our first XI. Even with the massive financial resources that Man City have at their disposal, they haven't been able to achieve Champions League football in the timescales they wanted. Spurs have achieved it, but it wasn't an overnight achievement for them either. We're on the right track, I believe. With some tweaking I'm sure we will get there. But a squad of quality cannot be assembled overnight, especially given the weak starting position MON was handed. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briggsy Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 The club, like the fans, don't want to sell Milner Everything depends on whether Milner is willing to agree a new contract If he is, we will sign him on a long term contract and turn down all offers If he isn't, with 2 years left on his contract, the club have to sell him this summer to maximise amount we will recieve If we wait 12 months we would only get around £15m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sit_Down_Potato_Head Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 thats the bug bear with ONeill - the squad, as you rightly pointed out, isnt there for him to rotate. But the problem is that sqaud after the first 11 has been assembled for massive money by MON............ so we shouldnt use that as an excuse for MON but more as a stick to beat his luckycharm eating head with !! You're half right, in my opinion.. The squad he has assembled lacks the quality for rotation while chasing a Top 4 finish. However, this squad has been assembled from a position of 16th. It's an evolutionary process. Moving from 16th to within 2 games of finishing 4th doesn't happen with the click of his fingers. The squad he has assembled is enough for us to finish Top 10, and the first XI got us close to the promised land. Now the evolution continues and the lesser players get moved out and replaced with sufficient quality to supplement the quality of our first XI. Even with the massive financial resources that Man City have at their disposal, they haven't been able to achieve Champions League football in the timescales they wanted. Spurs have achieved it, but it wasn't an overnight achievement for them either. We're on the right track, I believe. With some tweaking I'm sure we will get there. But a squad of quality cannot be assembled overnight, especially given the weak starting position MON was handed. Agreed. Don't quite agree. I think there has been room for considerable rotation, considering (a) the players we already have in certain positions, and ( the versatility of some players. Milner, can play on either wing, the centre or as full back. Cuellar (apparently) can play at full back or centre-half. Luke Young can play on either side as full-back. In the centre, attack-wise, we've got Milner and Sidwell, then more defensively, there's Petrov, Reo-Coker (when fit) and Delph. Apart from strikers, there's plenty of choice of good quality players to choose from. A useful comparison with Spurs would be players who were previously thought to be "surplus" and on the verge of being turfed out (yes, pun intended!) - the likes of Pavyluchenko, Bentley, Gomes and Dawson, only for them to rediscover their form, and fill the gaps when other players are injured (Lennon and Defoe weren't exactly missed when you consider where the Spuds finished up !). If only MON would rotate a bit more. I'm sure the likes of Davis and Luke Young would give him a real selection headache each week if given the chance. As for the rest. At the end of the 2008-9 season, I said the most improved players would be Milner and Cuellar. Next season, I think Downing and the Fonz are going to step up...hopefully Davies too. There's always another to come through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 thats the bug bear with ONeill - the squad, as you rightly pointed out, isnt there for him to rotate. But the problem is that sqaud after the first 11 has been assembled for massive money by MON............ so we shouldnt use that as an excuse for MON but more as a stick to beat his luckycharm eating head with !! You're half right, in my opinion.. The squad he has assembled lacks the quality for rotation while chasing a Top 4 finish. However, this squad has been assembled from a position of 16th. It's an evolutionary process. Moving from 16th to within 2 games of finishing 4th doesn't happen with the click of his fingers. The squad he has assembled is enough for us to finish Top 10, and the first XI got us close to the promised land. Now the evolution continues and the lesser players get moved out and replaced with sufficient quality to supplement the quality of our first XI. Even with the massive financial resources that Man City have at their disposal, they haven't been able to achieve Champions League football in the timescales they wanted. Spurs have achieved it, but it wasn't an overnight achievement for them either. We're on the right track, I believe. With some tweaking I'm sure we will get there. But a squad of quality cannot be assembled overnight, especially given the weak starting position MON was handed. Agreed. Don't quite agree. I think there has been room for considerable rotation, considering (a) the players we already have in certain positions, and ( the versatility of some players. Milner, can play on either wing, the centre or as full back. Cuellar (apparently) can play at full back or centre-half. Luke Young can play on either side as full-back. In the centre, attack-wise, we've got Milner and Sidwell, then more defensively, there's Petrov, Reo-Coker (when fit) and Delph. Apart from strikers, there's plenty of choice of good quality players to choose from. A useful comparison with Spurs would be players who were previously thought to be "surplus" and on the verge of being turfed out (yes, pun intended!) - the likes of Pavyluchenko, Bentley, Gomes and Dawson, only for them to rediscover their form, and fill the gaps when other players are injured (Lennon and Defoe weren't exactly missed when you consider where the Spuds finished up !). If only MON would rotate a bit more. I'm sure the likes of Davis and Luke Young would give him a real selection headache each week if given the chance. As for the rest. At the end of the 2008-9 season, I said the most improved players would be Milner and Cuellar. Next season, I think Downing and the Fonz are going to step up...hopefully Davies too. There's always another to come through. You cant compare Gomes, Pavlyuchenko and Bentley - to Sidwell, reo-Coker and Luke Young. Your talking about £40million for 3 squad players compared to what £18m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maradona10 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Gomes was never dropped. As for the other two, they were brought for a combined fees over 35million! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Also haven't Chelsea said they wouldn't go into a bidding war over players with the likes of Citeh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 What this needs is a Poll. Who is going to take the plunge and create a poll asking who thinks we should take £30m or more for Milner, and who thinks we should turn down full stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I think this thread is in need of some wagner love, mispelt on purpose ofc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claret75 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 thats the bug bear with ONeill - the squad, as you rightly pointed out, isnt there for him to rotate. But the problem is that sqaud after the first 11 has been assembled for massive money by MON............ so we shouldnt use that as an excuse for MON but more as a stick to beat his luckycharm eating head with !! You're half right, in my opinion.. The squad he has assembled lacks the quality for rotation while chasing a Top 4 finish. However, this squad has been assembled from a position of 16th. It's an evolutionary process. Moving from 16th to within 2 games of finishing 4th doesn't happen with the click of his fingers. The squad he has assembled is enough for us to finish Top 10, and the first XI got us close to the promised land. Now the evolution continues and the lesser players get moved out and replaced with sufficient quality to supplement the quality of our first XI. Even with the massive financial resources that Man City have at their disposal, they haven't been able to achieve Champions League football in the timescales they wanted. Spurs have achieved it, but it wasn't an overnight achievement for them either. We're on the right track, I believe. With some tweaking I'm sure we will get there. But a squad of quality cannot be assembled overnight, especially given the weak starting position MON was handed. Agreed. Don't quite agree. I think there has been room for considerable rotation, considering (a) the players we already have in certain positions, and ( the versatility of some players. Milner, can play on either wing, the centre or as full back. Cuellar (apparently) can play at full back or centre-half. Luke Young can play on either side as full-back. In the centre, attack-wise, we've got Milner and Sidwell, then more defensively, there's Petrov, Reo-Coker (when fit) and Delph. Apart from strikers, there's plenty of choice of good quality players to choose from. A useful comparison with Spurs would be players who were previously thought to be "surplus" and on the verge of being turfed out (yes, pun intended!) - the likes of Pavyluchenko, Bentley, Gomes and Dawson, only for them to rediscover their form, and fill the gaps when other players are injured (Lennon and Defoe weren't exactly missed when you consider where the Spuds finished up !). If only MON would rotate a bit more. I'm sure the likes of Davis and Luke Young would give him a real selection headache each week if given the chance. As for the rest. At the end of the 2008-9 season, I said the most improved players would be Milner and Cuellar. Next season, I think Downing and the Fonz are going to step up...hopefully Davies too. There's always another to come through. You cant compare Gomes, Pavlyuchenko and Bentley - to Sidwell, reo-Coker and Luke Young. Your talking about £40million for 3 squad players compared to what £18m? Gomes, Pavlyuchenko and Bentley are great squad players to have and if we had them wed probably have finished higher, incomparable to ours squadplayers. You say we have good quality with which to rotate, i dont agree. Sidwell has looked disinterested, NRC injured, Delph not ready, Davis injured, Fonz not ready (to start). The only real headscratcher for me was Cuellar being preferred to Young at RB, but thats not really a rotation thing, just MONs preference. I didnt understand when MON didnt chancge things late in games, like Sidwell for Petrov and Fonz on, but thats different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I think this thread is in need of some wagner love, mispelt on purpose ofc hunterlinger hasnt exactly been on fire at milan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claret75 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 POLL, POLL, POLL!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I think this thread is in need of some wagner love, mispelt on purpose ofc hunterlinger hasnt exactly been on fire at milan So after going through 5/6 pages, where is the speculation about Milner to United/Chelsea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 21, 2010 Moderator Share Posted May 21, 2010 There's your poll. Possibly a world first. A poll on a speculation thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troglodyte Posted May 21, 2010 VT Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2010 I'm not sure what to vote in the poll as it depends on a number of things I have no idea about, such as whether Milner wants to leave, who may replace him, specifically how much "£30m or more" relates to, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Oh yeah. I've gone United. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 I don't think we would turn down an offer based upon who it comes from, maybe Milner would but I don't think the club would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Where are the United and Chelsea links? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troglodyte Posted May 21, 2010 VT Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2010 I don't think we would turn down an offer based upon who it comes from, maybe Milner would but I don't think the club would. You don't think we'd rather sell to Chelsea or Man Utd than Man City, if the offers were the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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