Stevo985 Posted December 19, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Watching wwe this week man the current programming is absolute garbage. Raw was atrocious. I've said for ages that it just doesn't compare these days to the 90's. Whether that's me growing out of it or it genuinely just getting worse, I don't know. But when I watch back old events it's just so much better. The crowd is the main difference to me. Watching a run of the mill RAW from 1999, the crowd are so hot all the time. Whenever I tune into it these days the crowd just don't seem arsed. Even during the really big moments, it's polite applause. There's no pops. I honestly think the death of kayfabe has effected things massively. Whilst the business pretending it was all real was absurd, it made it much easier to suspend your disbelief, imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 31 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I've said for ages that it just doesn't compare these days to the 90's. Whether that's me growing out of it or it genuinely just getting worse, I don't know. But when I watch back old events it's just so much better. The crowd is the main difference to me. Watching a run of the mill RAW from 1999, the crowd are so hot all the time. Whenever I tune into it these days the crowd just don't seem arsed. Even during the really big moments, it's polite applause. There's no pops. I honestly think the death of kayfabe has effected things massively. Whilst the business pretending it was all real was absurd, it made it much easier to suspend your disbelief, imo. I think the crowd back then are different to today's "common" fan. I think there are also a number of factors such as raw being three hours each week. It's too LONG. Also since they went PG the fan base is a lot younger. I'm not sure if in the 80s and 90s fans knew it was all staged like we all do now. It was more bad ass in the 90s. I don't want to sound sexist as well but I think the crowd are not as hot for the women main events like they are with men. I am happy women are treated equally but it feels forced they dropping too much on us esp to end shows. First woman 'rr, ss match, tlc, hic and this week gauntlet match. I think this having a impact on the crowd. The recent bookings such as the strange Daniel Bryan heel turn dont help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 The peak of 98-01 will never be reached again. Everything just fell into place and it was absolutely incredible. I'm really enjoying the women's stuff at the moment and some of the matches are top drawer! Becky Lynch is the hottest thing in wrestling right now, in more ways than one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted December 19, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: The peak of 98-01 will never be reached again. Everything just fell into place and it was absolutely incredible. I'm really enjoying the women's stuff at the moment and some of the matches are top drawer! Becky Lynch is the hottest thing in wrestling right now, in more ways than one. i havent watched it on sky for years - we went to wrestlemania in miami in 2012 (only wwe event ive ever been to) and it marked an end of an era for us in many ways and we pretty much stopped watching after. everyone says it went downhill after that. call me sad, but i've been v slowly getting through all raw and smackdown episodes from 98-01 (currently at july 2000 as foley has just become commissioner) and god it was good...every episode packed full of action and drama. they were lucky with the roster they had. all the guys were fearless. i know you couldnt get away with the stuff the ladies did now, and even in the ones i'm watching they've introduced right to censor to add a bit of balance as it was getting a bit too carried away. mark henry impregnating mae young was a particularly bizarre storyline.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, tomav84 said: i havent watched it on sky for years - we went to wrestlemania in miami in 2012 (only wwe event ive ever been to) and it marked an end of an era for us in many ways and we pretty much stopped watching after. everyone says it went downhill after that. call me sad, but i've been v slowly getting through all raw and smackdown episodes from 98-01 (currently at july 2000 as foley has just become commissioner) and god it was good...every episode packed full of action and drama. they were lucky with the roster they had. all the guys were fearless. i know you couldnt get away with the stuff the ladies did now, and even in the ones i'm watching they've introduced right to censor to add a bit of balance as it was getting a bit too carried away. mark henry impregnating mae young was a particularly bizarre storyline.... RTC were a response to the PTC (Parents Television Council) who would militantly picket some WWF events. Nothing sad about watching events from that period. I still do it regularly. Particularly late 1997 to late 1999. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 19, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, tomav84 said: call me sad, but i've been v slowly getting through all raw and smackdown episodes from 98-01 (currently at july 2000 as foley has just become commissioner) and god it was good...every episode packed full of action and drama. they were lucky with the roster they had. all the guys were fearless. i know you couldnt get away with the stuff the ladies did now, and even in the ones i'm watching they've introduced right to censor to add a bit of balance as it was getting a bit too carried away. mark henry impregnating mae young was a particularly bizarre storyline.... That's what I'm trying to do. Tried it a few years ago but started too early. Think I started around 96/97 and while it was good, it didn't hold my interest enough. Gone in at the start of 1999 this time instead. What a RAW that was to start the year (it was the historic "butts on seats" episode") I think you're right about the roster. It was so talented and it was small in comparison to today. I think today it suffers by having so many wrestlers. Back then you had better stories and the same wrestlers appearing show after show which meant the quality was higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Wainy316 said: The peak of 98-01 will never be reached again. Everything just fell into place and it was absolutely incredible. I'm really enjoying the women's stuff at the moment and some of the matches are top drawer! Becky Lynch is the hottest thing in wrestling right now, in more ways than one. She is yet they go and take the title off her. Wwe today. Shit booking. Why they have not sent jax to sd go for them to feud is beyond me. Then send Charlotte to raw to feud with Rousey. Terrible booking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 52 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: She is yet they go and take the title off her. Wwe today. Shit booking. Why they have not sent jax to sd go for them to feud is beyond me. Then send Charlotte to raw to feud with Rousey. Terrible booking I'm okay with that as we'll see her chase the title and hopefully win the Royal Rumble. Well, she did attack Jax at TLC so a chance for some cross brand feuding to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 19, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 19, 2018 I hate all the talk of booking and angles and stuff as well. For me wrestling was better when you just marked out and took it as it came. If you didn't like who they made champion then that was half the fun! Once you start thinking "ooo I wonder who booked that" and "who wrote this storyline?" and "I see how they did that move" it loses the magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I hate all the talk of booking and angles and stuff as well. For me wrestling was better when you just marked out and took it as it came. If you didn't like who they made champion then that was half the fun! Once you start thinking "ooo I wonder who booked that" and "who wrote this storyline?" and "I see how they did that move" it loses the magic. I get your point but if you watch some of the shows decisions it really is baffling some things they do. Edited December 19, 2018 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 How are you guys on Documentaries? There are tonnes out there that reach back as far as early 90's and some great viewing on some too. Beyond the Mat, The rise and fall of WCW, Eric Bischoff, are a few off the top of my head that are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I reactivated my WWE Network account last week so I could relive some classic WWF. I reckon it's 3 years since I last used the Network, and I'm stunned that they haven't improved the interface or navigation on it at all. It genuinely took me about 10 minutes to even find where the old RAWs were. Everything is just labelled so badly. Am I looking in classics? Or replays? or originals? Will the old PPVs be in replays or "PPVs"? And I said last time I had it that they should have a timeline with the events on so you can watch one, say the Raw from the Monday, and then the Smackdown from the Thursday will automatically show up as the next thing to watch. Instead I finish watching RAW 356. Now I want to watch Smackdown from that week... but what number was the last one? 189? So I need Smackdown 190. But where's that? It's so difficult. The Network is obviously a BRILLIANT service. £9.99 a month for everything they offer, especially if you still watch WWE programming, is such a bargain. But i would have thought by this stage they'd have improved it a bit. I subscribed to this 3 or 4 yrs ago now but boy what a let down. Mainly the fact that all of Vince McMahon's battles over royalties meant that half of the events now (compared to their VHS release back in the day) are all edited and shit. For example, Many wrestlers entrance themes got edited out and replaced with some horrible crap that's not heard of. (Akeem, Demolition etc.) Jesse Ventura's colour commentary have all been edited and deleted out of all the events he featured on. WWE network. Sorry, but not for me - even if it was free. Edited December 19, 2018 by AvfcRigo82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 19, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said: I subscribed to this 3 or 4 yrs ago now but boy what a let down. Mainly the fact that all of Vince McMahon's battles over royalties meant that half of the events now (compared to their VHS release back in the day) are all edited and shit. For example, Many wrestlers entrance themes got edited out and replaced with some horrible crap that's not heard of. (Akeem, Demolition etc.) Jesse Ventura's colour commentary have all been edited and deleted out of all the events he featured on. WWE network. Sorry, but not for me - even if it was free. From what i've heard, the stuff on the Network is usually the original broadcast. And it's actually free from editing that happened on subsequent VHS releases (which is often actually detrimental. They were edited for a reason!) That's just from podcasts that i listen to that mention it. I'm pretty sure Jesse Ventura is still there too. Again I haven't seen it myself but listening to "WrestleMe" they watch a lot of old Wrestlemanias on the Network and they've had many discussions about Ventura's commentary so it must be present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Wainy316 said: The peak of 98-01 will never be reached again. Everything just fell into place and it was absolutely incredible. Agree Wainy. 1988 -1992 & 1996 - 2001 are the standout and best years of WWF/WWE that will never be emulated again imo. As mentioned, Vinny Mac buggered it when he wiped out the competition of WCW & ECW. He should have brought them and kept them as seperate companies imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Agree Wainy. 1988 -1992 & 1996 - 2001 are the standout and best years of WWF/WWE that will never be emulated again imo. As mentioned, Vinny Mac buggered it when he wiped out the competition of WCW & ECW. He should have brought them and kept them as seperate companies imo. Yeah Nitro in 97/98 was pretty great in it's own right. I was always a WWF loyalist though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: From what i've heard, the stuff on the Network is usually the original broadcast. And it's actually free from editing that happened on subsequent VHS releases (which is often actually detrimental. They were edited for a reason!) That's just from podcasts that i listen to that mention it. I'm pretty sure Jesse Ventura is still there too. Again I haven't seen it myself but listening to "WrestleMe" they watch a lot of old Wrestlemanias on the Network and they've had many discussions about Ventura's commentary so it must be present. Possibly Stevo and I could be wrong as this was a few years ago. Could it be the Network are again showing the unedited originals and it's just the later VHS & DVD releases that have been edited due to the royalty factors. One example is Wrestlemania 6 (entrance themes) and the Survivor Series 2nd Annual (Jesse cannot be heard, only Monsoon). I only noticed though from having about 500+ Videos of WWF from the early 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: Yeah Nitro in 97/98 was pretty great in it's own right. I was always a WWF loyalist though. WCW didn't help themselves by allowing Wrestlers have creative control in their contracts, and in Kevin Nash who was on an insane contract anyway, had a clause, that if anyone else arrived in WCW on a higher wage bracket, his contract would automatically be matched with it. I suppose when you have an open chequebook to piss away Ted Turner's cash it didn't really matter at the time but equally very irresponsible. The Sunderland AFC of the Wrestling world if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted December 19, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Possibly Stevo and I could be wrong as this was a few years ago. Could it be the Network are again showing the unedited originals and it's just the later VHS & DVD releases that have been edited due to the royalty factors. One example is Wrestlemania 6 (entrance themes) and the Survivor Series 2nd Annual (Jesse cannot be heard, only Monsoon). I only noticed though from having about 500+ Videos of WWF from the early 90's. dont have the network, never have, i just downloaded full years of raw and smackdown on utorrent that some kind soul created using their vhs tapes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daweii Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: She is yet they go and take the title off her. Wwe today. Shit booking. Why they have not sent jax to sd go for them to feud is beyond me. Then send Charlotte to raw to feud with Rousey. Terrible booking They took the title off of her so she can enter the Rumble, win it and face Rousey in the main event at Mania. It would have been shite booking if the Rumble wasn't coming up, but its sublime booking given the time of year, the current feud and the fact that as it stands this is long term booking done right. What's better is this is long term booking with so many threads and sub-plots going on. Where does Charlotte fit in? When is Becky getting full revenge on Nia? I'm not a huge fan of how WWE book things in 2018, but this is the one thing they are getting absolutely right. Yes, short term Becky losing the title is bad, but look to the future a bit and this is phenomenal booking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Hoping this McMahon's taking control thing might signal the end of the Brand Extension. I absolutely despise the two world title thing and refuse to look at the Universal Title as an equal to the WWE title. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts