Scientific Experiment V2 #9 - MON(thly) Approval Ratings

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

- 451 has been done to death before now. It's not the be all and end all and we've moved on from it. It's very limited.

How is being unbeaten in about 16 games in this formation being limited? We've had constant success whenever we have used it. He said using it sometimes, not all the time but sometimes.

Limited formation Tell Wenger and Guardiola that. Oh wait, what's that? Ferguson uses it in all big games. Yes, limited.

[Chindie]

Seriously, POB, done the debate before. I disagree. Live with it.

":lol:" indeed.

[Davies4England]

- 451 has been done to death before now. It's not the be all and end all and we've moved on from it. It's very limited.

How is being unbeaten in about 16 games in this formation being limited? We've had constant success whenever we have used it. He said using it sometimes, not all the time but sometimes.

Limited formation Tell Wenger and Guardiola that. Oh wait, what's that? Ferguson uses it in all big games. Yes, limited.

You do understand there is a vast difference of quality considering what they have at their disposal.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

- 451 has been done to death before now. It's not the be all and end all and we've moved on from it. It's very limited.

How is being unbeaten in about 16 games in this formation being limited? We've had constant success whenever we have used it. He said using it sometimes, not all the time but sometimes.

Limited formation Tell Wenger and Guardiola that. Oh wait, what's that? Ferguson uses it in all big games. Yes, limited.

You do understand there is a vast difference of quality considering what they have at their disposal.

Sorry, both of you are right, the fact we won 5 away games on the bounce last year in this formation, went 11 unbeaten last year in this formation aswell as beat Liverpool this way this year means it doesn't work for us.

Not even saying use it constantly but the fact we rarely ever use it in any games despite it being so successful is suprising.

We used it to great success last year and when used this year, has also had alot of success.

Chind, I know you don't like it, just the fact you say it's limited is a strange comment when the best managers and the best teams employ it. 3 of the arguably most exciting teams too may I add.

[Chindie]

I should have elaborated, limited in our disposal. Again, as I've had enough, frankly, I'll not debate it further.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Ah go on

[barry'sboots]

I'm loathe to really get involved in this but, sadly, 'Honey theres someone wrong on the internet' has ascendency. I'm going to say that commander and Barry'sboots are, surprise surprise, largely (note, largely) wrong.

Rather arrogant to state that we are wrong and you are right. I can accept you have a different opinion but I didn't know you were the arbiter of right and wrong? I'll share my logic for my opinions with you.

- As for Carlos at RB, I believe even he has said words to the effect that he is not a RB but I could be wrong. If he hasn't he should have as I think most Villa fans, obviously excluding you, MON and a few others would recognise this. Be interested to see the figures, information, whatever, that you talk of. I wouldn't have said that Luke Young was bad at tracking back or defending but you are welcome to your view. I accept your RW point, although I don't think DJ is as good out there as he doesn't have the two footed capability of Ash and Jimmy and I prefer Ash on the left.

- Thought Nathan looked better than Heskey has for the last few games. If MON doesn't have the options up front when one striker gets injured then surely by now its his fault. Heskey was his signing as was Harewood. We'll come on to 4-5-1/4-3-3 because I think you are off the mark there.

- As for his faith in his squad, it is, by now, his squad. How come Davie Moyes can get Landon Donovan in over a busy period to provide cover/rotate but we couldn't? How come Redknob can pick up Gudjohnson for a £1m or so to give him short term options? There must be things we could do? And I am not asking for wholesale rotation just, for example, DJ to the bench Albrighton start against Wolves, knowing that DJ can come on for the last 30 minutes. NRC, when fit, could replace Stan for the last 30 minutes when Stan is so tired he is next too useless.

- Subs I'll refer back to the above.

- 451: we've all seen how limited it is when Barca, Arsenal, Man U, Chelski, Plop and Everton have used it!!! Just look at our results over the last two years when we have used it. Please give me some evidence/support as to why this does not work!?

- Cuellar is the obvious player out of position and we have done that above. I also believe that Heskey is being played out of position. When he has done well for England he has been the battering ram - the player that shifts the opposition CBs around and lays the ball of for the second striker oncoming attacking midfielders. When he plays for MON he is almost a third CM'er/a link striker. I don't think he could have played that role when he was 21 let alone his current age where he just doesn't have the energy to get forward and join the other striker. I would much rather see Delph play this role as he did so effectively in the first half hour against Man U at VP. I feel sorry for Carlos and Emile because I think MON's misuse of them could cost them both a World Cup opportunity.

- Plan A etc.: Birmingham City away. Worked well me thinks??? Not many teams been there and got a win. Maloney, at a cost of £1m, used to give us an option. Harewood used to give us an option to change things/rev things up a bit.

- MON's interviews: I'm not asking him to say he got it wrong, but he could occasionally say that we didn't play that well. He could stop slating the crowd for booing the team when he knows that they are booing him for not making subs. He could stop saying that we are tired when he hasn't used his subs/rested anybody.

- As for the Delfouneso cheering, I think you are probably right. He did not react to the chanting/change the sub. But, back to the sub point, how he let Heskey stay on for the whole 90 minutes and, even worse, start the next game, is beyond me.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

I should have elaborated, limited in our disposal. Again, as I've had enough, frankly, I'll not debate it further.

Hence why it should be used at certain times not all the times which is the original arguement. :? or should a successful formation never be used?

[Mantis]

I really can't see MON walking in the summer. I think he's devoted to the club and as others have mentioned, where else could he go with a better chairman?

[Mark8691]

I always thought it was telling that our former captain (Barry) who craved some success with Villa didn't have the confidence in MON to take the club any further.

Me, I think Jan/Feb 2009 was when i began to doubt he had the ability to take us any further.

Just to limited with his team/tactics and unambitious in the transfer market.

As for this season. A strikeforce of Heskey, Carew and Gabby is way too limited to get the goals needed for our stated ambitions.

[briny_ear]

I always thought it was telling that our former captain (Barry) who craved some success with Villa didn't have the confidence in MON to take the club any further.

I thought it was rather more telling that it was a £100,000 a week contract, for a player whose career was on the brink of beginning to fade out, that helped with the move.

[P3te]

He's still the man for me, frustrating as he might be.

(Unless we could nick Moyes).

hodgson

[P3te]

I always thought it was telling that our former captain (Barry) who craved some success with Villa didn't have the confidence in MON to take the club any further.

I thought it was rather more telling that it was a £100,000 a week contract, for a player whose career was on the brink of beginning to fade out, that helped with the move.

was only £15k a week more than he was offered here, and taking the taxes footie players pay into consideration, it was barely a raise worth speaking about over the contract on the table for us

he didnt leave for money, he left to join a more ambitious club with bags of money to bring in the top names in world football

[briny_ear]

I always thought it was telling that our former captain (Barry) who craved some success with Villa didn't have the confidence in MON to take the club any further.

I thought it was rather more telling that it was a £100,000 a week contract, for a player whose career was on the brink of beginning to fade out, that helped with the move.

was only £15k a week more than he was offered here, and taking the taxes footie players pay into consideration, it was barely a raise worth speaking about over the contract on the table for us

he didnt leave for money, he left to join a more ambitious club with bags of money to bring in the top names in world football

Well, you can rewrite history if you want to. But I remember (a) Barry explaining it wasn't the money, just that he had to go to a club who could give him CL football this season (i.e. Liverpool - remember that bit of the tale?). Then ( when he left, it was to the club that offered him most money but no CL football.

Of course it wasn't for the money...

[snowychap]

was only £15k a week more than he was offered here, and taking the taxes footie players pay into consideration, it was barely a raise worth speaking about over the contract on the table for us

Barely a raise worth speaking about? :?

It would mean the difference in net income p.a. of about £460k at 2009/10 income tax rates (or about £400k at 2010/11 rates).

[Mantis]

This is why I don't want City to get 4th place. As much as I hate Liverpool and Spurs (then again I hate City too) it's vital that one of us gets it instead of City not only because of that but mainly because they could cement their place in the top 4.

[R.I.C.O.]

At the moment yes. However my patience is wearing thin by the day, this season is turning out exactly like the last. It seems like mistakes/lessons have not been learned. If we finish 8th and win nothing you can only put this seaosn down as a failure. If that happens he has to go, can you see him putting it right?

[R.I.C.O.]

YES!! That's it in a nut shell for me if he tries something (logical) and it doesn't work fine, but if we're not even trying things then what's the point?

* For starters, he could try a 442 with a right back and right winger.

* He can try something rather than 2 big lumbering centre forwards

* He can introduce a proper squad rotation and swap peopel around in order to keep them fresh. Whilkst we'd all like to see Gabby, Yopung Milner etc in the team every week, if in soem games especially against weeker opposition wolves etc, have one on the bench. Just imagine, Downing has been terrorising the rightback all game, then for the last 20 mins, he makes way and a fr4esh Ashley Young comes on the defenders will be shitting themselves. Imagine Gabby used in some games like Vassell was used for England. Delfouneso or whomever runs himself into the groujnd for 65 mins, defender start to tire, then Gabby comes on fresh. Defender would shit it.

* He can make substitutions. You have to keep the opposition guessing.

* He can try the huigely successfuly 451/433 in some games. Evewn at home, it can be an attacking formation, if we have a solid 3 in the middle and give say the front 3 of say Milner, Gabby & Young and give them a licence to roam, then that woudl be very exciting to watch. These 3 in poarticular will run their arses off all day and if we had a solid 3 in the middle, we could over run the opposition.

* Sometimes playing players out of position for a specific reason and on extremely limited occasions can work wonders but it has to be for a specific reason (eg Dalian Atkinson playing right wiong in CC Final 1994 - Sir Alex never saw it coming so couldn't prepare his team to counter it until the game commenced). This is tactical, taking advantage of teh opposition, and exploiiting oppositions weaknesses. Cuelalr at right back if he's against a tall left winger and the opposition has lots of 6ft + players is a good tactical decision as there is loigic behind it. We can all discuss the pluses and minuses of doing iot but the decision is logical.

There is nothing logical about playing Cuellar rightback for say 10 games in a ROW ESPECIALLY WHEN HE IS NOW BECOOMING A LIABILITY.

* I want a plan B, C & D. Same with transfer window, we should now have a list of say 15-20 potential considerations for strikers, number them in priority if we can't get option A, move on. What is totally acceptable is oh the first chociue rightback moved elsewhere so we didn't bother.

* I want someone who **** up to admit it. Or at least acknowledge WHY fans may see it that way. All this Gabby was booed etc - he wasn't it was aimed at you Martin. Accept it, heck, even say fans were wrong but don't start talking about us fans booing Gabby cos we weren't - we were booing you.

* Don't be soo stubborn- like vs Wolves, Luke Young & Delfouneso warm up - huge cheer the fans want them both on cos we are so visably disjointed - what happens he stops em warming up and there in that instasnce he decides he won't bring them on.

You are so right. I thought I'd posted this myself under a pseudonym!

I'm loathe to really get involved in this but, sadly, 'Honey theres someone wrong on the internet' has ascendency. I'm going to say that commander and Barry'sboots are, surprise surprise, largely (note, largely) wrong.

- 442 with a RB and a RW. We do already. You'd have a point if we didn't play anyone at RB and played some bizarre argumentation of 442 with a LB a sweeper and 2 CBs, but sadly Carlos is our RB. He may not look comfortable there, he may not always look brilliant there, but our RB he is and that is that. There will be a reason O'Neill plays him ahead of Luke Young, I'll not speculate that he's fallen out with Luke Young or whateve (I doubt he has mind), but I'll say the the figures, information, whatever, gives O'Neill a reason to play him. I'd hypothesis it's the extent to which he's useful at set pieces at either end, coupled to the fact that he oftne has Downing ahead of him who isn't as comfortable tracking back on the right and thus O'Neill wants a more solid backing on that wing.

As for RW, we switch so much that natural positions don't matter so much, and mixing up inswinging deliveries from a left footer on the right is mirror of what has made Ash so successful on the left.

- 2 lumbering cente forwards who happen to be our only fit CFs and only play together when Gabby, our other senior experience CF, is unfit. The Fonz came on yesterday and didn't do terribly, but by all accounts also struggled at times. Might give a hint why he's not playing.

- He clearly doesn't have the same faith in our squad that our fans have. I suspect he's right not to. I don't think we're in the position to just rest as we please yet. We're in the position to not be as weakened, in some positions, by injuries as we have been. But that doesn't mean we can rest players as we please, especially given our style of play clearly suits the first XI more than any other player filling in.

- Subs I'll agree wholeheartedly with. He seems loathe to use them. Might refer back to the above.

- 451 has been done to death before now. It's not the be all and end all and we've moved on from it. It's very limited.

- The playing players out of position thing I think is over played. We only really do it with Cuellar, who, despite being poor recently, still hasn't totally embarassed himself there and obviously brings other advantages to the table. I'm not overly bothered who plays there from Young to Cuellar, both have their plus points.

- Very few teams, I'll maintain, have a genuine Plan A/B/C. The best they usually do, and by this I mean really top level teams like United, is have a player that can come on and have the game adapt to them. We don't have that capability yet because, well.. look at the squad. Someone who's going to make that much difference is going to be starting for us. But genuinely different ways of playing? Don't think it happens, sorry.

- No manager, in the top level, these days, is going to go before the media and say he got it wrong. It just invites pressure they don't need. Behind the scenes, I'm sure he'll be making sure they work on areas that have gone wrong or having a word with a player performing badly. But admit it? Rarely happens. John Gregory is long gone.

- The Delfouneso cheering warm up - changed sub is maintain is rubbish. Wolves changed their own style to a more defensive one, he reacted to that. Nothing more to my mind.

Nail on head.

[commander]

YES!! That's it in a nut shell for me if he tries something (logical) and it doesn't work fine, but if we're not even trying things then what's the point?

* For starters, he could try a 442 with a right back and right winger.

* He can try something rather than 2 big lumbering centre forwards

* He can introduce a proper squad rotation and swap peopel around in order to keep them fresh. Whilkst we'd all like to see Gabby, Yopung Milner etc in the team every week, if in soem games especially against weeker opposition wolves etc, have one on the bench. Just imagine, Downing has been terrorising the rightback all game, then for the last 20 mins, he makes way and a fr4esh Ashley Young comes on the defenders will be shitting themselves. Imagine Gabby used in some games like Vassell was used for England. Delfouneso or whomever runs himself into the groujnd for 65 mins, defender start to tire, then Gabby comes on fresh. Defender would shit it.

* He can make substitutions. You have to keep the opposition guessing.

* He can try the huigely successfuly 451/433 in some games. Evewn at home, it can be an attacking formation, if we have a solid 3 in the middle and give say the front 3 of say Milner, Gabby & Young and give them a licence to roam, then that woudl be very exciting to watch. These 3 in poarticular will run their arses off all day and if we had a solid 3 in the middle, we could over run the opposition.

* Sometimes playing players out of position for a specific reason and on extremely limited occasions can work wonders but it has to be for a specific reason (eg Dalian Atkinson playing right wiong in CC Final 1994 - Sir Alex never saw it coming so couldn't prepare his team to counter it until the game commenced). This is tactical, taking advantage of teh opposition, and exploiiting oppositions weaknesses. Cuelalr at right back if he's against a tall left winger and the opposition has lots of 6ft + players is a good tactical decision as there is loigic behind it. We can all discuss the pluses and minuses of doing iot but the decision is logical.

There is nothing logical about playing Cuellar rightback for say 10 games in a ROW ESPECIALLY WHEN HE IS NOW BECOOMING A LIABILITY.

* I want a plan B, C & D. Same with transfer window, we should now have a list of say 15-20 potential considerations for strikers, number them in priority if we can't get option A, move on. What is totally acceptable is oh the first chociue rightback moved elsewhere so we didn't bother.

* I want someone who **** up to admit it. Or at least acknowledge WHY fans may see it that way. All this Gabby was booed etc - he wasn't it was aimed at you Martin. Accept it, heck, even say fans were wrong but don't start talking about us fans booing Gabby cos we weren't - we were booing you.

* Don't be soo stubborn- like vs Wolves, Luke Young & Delfouneso warm up - huge cheer the fans want them both on cos we are so visably disjointed - what happens he stops em warming up and there in that instasnce he decides he won't bring them on.

You are so right. I thought I'd posted this myself under a pseudonym!

Ha ha I feel taht whenever I read your posts! I've not been on here in a long while - got too annoyed with it all - but can remember . I agree with you because you don't just say MON out etc - you put forward a sensible argument and debate it.

[Jon]

of course it doesnt guarantee anything, but if what youre doing isnt working you dont just keep doing it for the sake of it

why isn't it working? Because we aren't winning every game and sitting clear in 4th? We want to be in the race right down to the wire and at the moment we are.

If we change it and lose the next 3 will you say oh well at least he tried?

YES!! That's it in a nut shell for me if he tries something (logical) and it doesn't work fine, but if we're not even trying things then what's the point?

* For starters, he could try a 442 with a right back and right winger.

* He can try something rather than 2 big lumbering centre forwards

* He can introduce a proper squad rotation and swap peopel around in order to keep them fresh. Whilkst we'd all like to see Gabby, Yopung Milner etc in the team every week, if in soem games especially against weeker opposition wolves etc, have one on the bench. Just imagine, Downing has been terrorising the rightback all game, then for the last 20 mins, he makes way and a fr4esh Ashley Young comes on the defenders will be shitting themselves. Imagine Gabby used in some games like Vassell was used for England. Delfouneso or whomever runs himself into the groujnd for 65 mins, defender start to tire, then Gabby comes on fresh. Defender would shit it.

* He can make substitutions. You have to keep the opposition guessing.

* He can try the huigely successfuly 451/433 in some games. Evewn at home, it can be an attacking formation, if we have a solid 3 in the middle and give say the front 3 of say Milner, Gabby & Young and give them a licence to roam, then that woudl be very exciting to watch. These 3 in poarticular will run their arses off all day and if we had a solid 3 in the middle, we could over run the opposition.

* Sometimes playing players out of position for a specific reason and on extremely limited occasions can work wonders but it has to be for a specific reason (eg Dalian Atkinson playing right wiong in CC Final 1994 - Sir Alex never saw it coming so couldn't prepare his team to counter it until the game commenced). This is tactical, taking advantage of teh opposition, and exploiiting oppositions weaknesses. Cuelalr at right back if he's against a tall left winger and the opposition has lots of 6ft + players is a good tactical decision as there is loigic behind it. We can all discuss the pluses and minuses of doing iot but the decision is logical.

There is nothing logical about playing Cuellar rightback for say 10 games in a ROW ESPECIALLY WHEN HE IS NOW BECOOMING A LIABILITY.

* I want a plan B, C & D. Same with transfer window, we should now have a list of say 15-20 potential considerations for strikers, number them in priority if we can't get option A, move on. What is totally acceptable is oh the first chociue rightback moved elsewhere so we didn't bother.

* I want someone who **** up to admit it. Or at least acknowledge WHY fans may see it that way. All this Gabby was booed etc - he wasn't it was aimed at you Martin. Accept it, heck, even say fans were wrong but don't start talking about us fans booing Gabby cos we weren't - we were booing you.

* Don't be soo stubborn- like vs Wolves, Luke Young & Delfouneso warm up - huge cheer the fans want them both on cos we are so visably disjointed - what happens he stops em warming up and there in that instasnce he decides he won't bring them on.

agree with pretty much all of that commander. Some really sensible comments in there. I can't comment on the fonz and l young sub bit as i wasn't there, but the rest just seems eminently sensible.