mjmooney Posted April 8, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, ender4 said: I would say that most of us in England are aware of an area of our ‘country’ called Northern Ireland, but really couldn’t give a shit about them any more than we do about Nigeria or New Zealand. Until they start leaving bombs around in England. A whole generation has grown up associating that stuff only with Muslims and the middle east, but in the 1970s it was all about Ireland. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 34 minutes ago, ender4 said: I would say that most of us in England are aware of an area of our ‘country’ called Northern Ireland, but really couldn’t give a shit about them any more than we do about Nigeria or New Zealand. I think that's exactly right. I think we only start paying attention when it's forced onto us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Darwin awards? Quote Two men were killed after a Tesla car crashed into a tree and caught fire in Texas, and police believe there was nobody present in the driver's seat at the time of the accident. The 2019 Tesla Model S was travelling at a high speed when it failed to negotiate a curve on a winding road. The victims, both in their 50s, were found in the front passenger seat and in the back of the vehicle. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56799749 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 These self-driving cars are an absolute menace IMO. Are they able to tell the difference between an old woman with a shopping cart and a tree yet, or is that still to come? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 19, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: These self-driving cars are an absolute menace IMO. They aren't self driving cars... yet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) I’m amazed self driving cars are legal. Yeah, the technology exists so it’ll work in theory. The more we have the more of these kind of accidents occur. Edited April 19, 2021 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 19, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 19, 2021 Just now, Genie said: I’m amazed self driving cars are legal. Self driving cars aren't legal, even the authorised testing cars have to have the option for a human to over-ride in emergencies 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, bickster said: They aren't self driving cars... yet What's the correct terminology? Is it just 'a car on autopilot' at this stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, bickster said: Self driving cars aren't legal, even the authorised testing cars have to have the option for a human to over-ride in emergencies In America, where the accident happened, I think they are legal in many parts. Some require a person in the drivers seat although some do not I don’t think. When you see how many faults the premium cars have in particular, who would be mad enough to trust them to do all the driving? Tesla are leading the way on autonomous driving, also off the scale for faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 19, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: What's the correct terminology? Is it just 'a car on autopilot' at this stage? I'm not sure tbh. Cars with Advanced Driver Assistance Systems I guess as ADAS is the terminology for the robotic bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 19, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 19, 2021 11 hours ago, Genie said: In America, where the accident happened, I think they are legal in many parts. Some require a person in the drivers seat although some do not I don’t think. When you see how many faults the premium cars have in particular, who would be mad enough to trust them to do all the driving? Tesla are leading the way on autonomous driving, also off the scale for faults. You are wrong, self driving cars are not legal in any country in the world yet (apart from the testing programs which all have a failsafe human in them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 20, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted April 20, 2021 11 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: What's the correct terminology? Is it just 'a car on autopilot' at this stage? I think that's part of the problem. Tesla are calling it something it isn't, because the thing they're calling it sounds cooler than what it actually is. But then people are believing the literal name and ending up wrapped around trees. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 There’s a bunch of levels of autonomous driving and some of them have been around for several years. Emergency braking, adaptive cruise control, self parking, lane keep assist are a few examples of widespread “autonomous” driving features. It’s a huge leap between a feature stepping in because it appears you’ve missed something for some reason and it can react quicker in the name of safety... and trusting the car to make all the decisions about driving in the name of laziness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 2 hours ago, BOF said: I think that's part of the problem. Tesla are calling it something it isn't, because the thing they're calling it sounds cooler than what it actually is. But then people are believing the literal name and ending up wrapped around trees. That’s just natural selection surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 20, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted April 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: That’s just natural selection surely? Yes and no. I'm all for weeding out the dribbling simpletons. But if I'm sold something that is dangerously falsely advertised then there has to be some kind of control on that. So it's not quite as cut and dried as most Darwin contenders for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 16 hours ago, Genie said: I’m amazed self driving cars are legal. Yeah, the technology exists so it’ll work in theory. The more we have the more of these kind of accidents occur. But a huge amount less than human error type accidents given a few more generations of tech improvements I’d wager to bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 20, 2021 Author Moderator Share Posted April 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ingram85 said: But a huge amount less than human error type accidents given a few more generations of tech improvements I’d wager to bet You would wonder how the car is programmed in a scenario where it has to decide whether to prioritise your life or the life of those outside of the car in a situation where it knows it has to have a collision. Are you OK with the car not prioritising its owner if you happen to be its owner? It's like the trolley problem except it's the trolley making the decision. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 20, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 20, 2021 8 minutes ago, BOF said: You would wonder how the car is programmed in a scenario where it has to decide whether to prioritise your life or the life of those outside of the car in a situation where it knows it has to have a collision. Are you OK with the car not prioritising its owner if you happen to be its owner? How do humans decide? some decide one way, some another, maybe? It's instinctive. We're just meat computers. Some will prioritise self preservation by meat algorithm and some will prioritise avoiding hitting pedestrians by their meat algorithm. For me at least, once you (I) understand that, you can look at actual car autonomy in a clearer way. If you look at aviation for examples, aircraft systems co-operate with those on other nearby aircraft to maintain safe seperation - an example is TCAS - two aircraft on a collision course - one will be told to steer up (climb) and one to steer down (descend). I've over simplified that explanation, but it's kind of the principle. With humans, they might (as we see walking down the street sometimes) both decide to climb, then "oh sorry", and then they both descend..and then they both do a smile and say something funny, like "thanks for the dance" to cover the weirdness. Machines will not get into that situation. But that's 2 automatic vehicles. Before that you get the one automatic vehicle and one human in control (or pedestrian). But even then, the humans will earn that the auto-car always does [this thing] and act accordingly. So there will be teething troubles, but it'll make motoring safer for occupants and pedestrians in due course. Crashes in fog will reduce. Crashes at night and so on. But it's a way off yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Elon Musk has said the data logs suggest autopilot was not engaged. So god knows what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Xela said: Elon Musk has said the data logs suggest autopilot was not engaged. So god knows what happened. Words like auto pilot and self driving are the problem. It's all marketing when actually it's just a car with driver assistance. As assisted driving gets better people assume they don't need to do anything and switch off. This leads to accidents. There's a lot of research that shows you should at least keep people steering the car so they know they have to do something. Edited April 20, 2021 by villa89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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