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The "Witton Lane" Boxing Chat Thread


Dr_Pangloss

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11 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

We need to go back to same day weigh - ins , Smith looked like a cruiserweight.  It needs to be stopped before someone is seriously hurt.

Agreed, definitely had a massive impact. Groves is hardly a small super middleweight, Smith obviously is very tall but he looked very 'full' in his arms and upper body, surely weighing north of 185lbs. 

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I know wilder has this 40 - 0 streak but he has really fought some bums hasn’t he! He’ll probably beat fury now, but is he actually any good? Yes he has a lot of power which gets then knockouts but would he have coped with the Klitch’s etc? 

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55 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

I know wilder has this 40 - 0 streak but he has really fought some bums hasn’t he! He’ll probably beat fury now, but is he actually any good? Yes he has a lot of power which gets then knockouts but would he have coped with the Klitch’s etc? 

Proof of the pudding and all that. 

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3 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

I probably come across as Wilder's #1 fan on here so I'll have a stab at this. 

The headline answer to this question is "no". But let's discuss his strengths and weaknesses. 

Strengths

His right hand

He has obscene power in his right hand. He is without a doubt the hardest puncher in the division and the hardest punching heavyweight there has been in a long time. This is extremely impressive given that he is not a heavy guy, despite his height, often weighing in below 225 lbs, whereas the Joshua's and Fury's of this world are north of 240lbs. His right hand isn't just about the power, he gets labelled as a 'windmiller' and whilst you can find videos of him doing this, he can throw this punch very short and straight as well as via an uppercut. See the knockouts of Ortiz and Spillka for examples of this. He also strategises the right hand very well, setting it up with a jab or left hook, or simply screening his opponent with a jab designed to confuse rather than land. On top of this, his arm length means he can land this straight right from distance, making it hard for opponents to stay out of range. Finally, the right hand is thrown with a lot of speed and he always finds a way to land it.

Athleticism

He's an excellent athlete, his reflexes are good, his hands are quick and his feet are fast. 

 

Weaknesses

Chin

It's a question mark, he has been down early on in his pro career a couple of times and was badly hurt by Ortiz. Now Ortiz can punch very hard and has a lot of skill, so I'd imagine he'd hurt anyone if given the opportunity to land, and in fairness to Wilder he didn't go down and won the fight. I'd say that his chin is certainly not 'glass' but it's not 'granite' either.

Boxing skill

Joshua is very much a guy who studied boxing 101 and got a bachelor's degree in it. Wilder appears to have not read the introductory text book. His footwork is hardly great and neither is his defence, he can get caught square often and look very poorly balanced. He also isn't that good at strategising a fight, not appearing to have many strings to his bow, he is good at finding away to land the right hand but not really someone who can take an opponents weapons away.

 

Bottom line is this, he has one hell of a weapon that can take anyone out and no one so far has stopped him from using it. I don't think Fury is in the right shape to beat him and can see Wilder winning. I maintain that Wilder has a great chance to beat Joshua because it's clear to me that Joshua doesn't defend the straight right hand very well. 

How does he compare to past greats? A prime Vitali probably brutalises him, along with everyone else in the current division. A prime Wladimir probably stops him but his weak chin gives Wilder a punchers chance. A prime Lennox Lewis would dispatch of him like he did Michael Grant. Wilder doesn't really shape up that well to past greats but I see his right hand being a massive danger to everyone on this current heavyweight landscape. 

Great summary there. What about Tyson? Tyson for me would absolutely obliterate wilder and joshua

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1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

Great summary there. What about Tyson? Tyson for me would absolutely obliterate wilder and joshua

Prime Tyson probably beats both. I was never sure that he'd beat either Klitschko at their primes, too big, too good with distance, but we've seen the likes of Takam and Povtekin, much shorter guys than Joshua, have success at getting inside with a jab and a bit of lateral movement, so I think he'd knock Joshua out and I think he'd aggressively get in on Wilder very quickly.

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The fury wilder build up has been embarassing. Watching the LA press conference its just a circus worse than the mayweather McGregor. 

Fury obviously doing what he did to klitschiko to try get under his skin and get in his head.

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5 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

The fury wilder build up has been embarassing. Watching the LA press conference its just a circus worse than the mayweather McGregor. 

Fury obviously doing what he did to klitschiko to try get under his skin and get in his head.

I really don't think there is any trying to get under one another's skin in this one. This is pure rehearsed nonsense. They are best of buddies backstage. This fight will be as dire as the build up in my opinion and/or highly choreographed to ensure a rematch. 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, West said:

I really don't think there is any trying to get under one another's skin in this one. This is pure rehearsed nonsense. They are best of buddies backstage. This fight will be as dire as the build up in my opinion and/or highly choreographed to ensure a rematch. 

 

 

I think they are of course mates behind the scenes and this is like something from the wee. But i do think fury will try to win this. Dint thibk he woukd just come for a pay day only. His ego wont allow it.

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3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I think they are of course mates behind the scenes and this is like something from the wee. But i do think fury will try to win this. Dint thibk he woukd just come for a pay day only. His ego wont allow it.

I do hope so as a Tyson Fury who is hungry to win and not just hungry for a pay check is an asset to the division. 

But how I view it is both these guys have not been paid well at all throughout their career. Wilder simply has no profile or a promotional team who know how to build him and similarly Fury has missed out on numerous pay days in his career. I feel like these two have agreed a double fight deal so the chances of either of them wanting to dismantle the other is low in my opinion. 

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Anyone who knows anything about the sport knows that the buildup to a fight is all theatre. It's promo FFS. I think it's was pretty obvious that Mayweather and McGregor enjoyed working together and it's even more apparent that Fury and Wilder get on. Fury has made Wilder laugh on stage a couple of times this week. 

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1 hour ago, The_Rev said:

Anyone who knows anything about the sport knows that the buildup to a fight is all theatre. It's promo FFS. I think it's was pretty obvious that Mayweather and McGregor enjoyed working together and it's even more apparent that Fury and Wilder get on. Fury has made Wilder laugh on stage a couple of times this week. 

Yep all theatre rubbish

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It's a really interesting fight for me. Which has to be tempered by two things - 1. Is Fury actually physically ready for this? 2. Will it actually happen on the given date?

If it gets delayed by injury or something it may buy Fury a bit more time to get in shape. Despite the showings since his comeback (The least said about the Seferi fight the better) his weightloss in a short space of time is impressive by anyone's standards. If he's kept that up there's no reason he hasn't got the time to be back at his proper fighting weight. He's always been a big guy and he has the height to carry a few extra pounds. What sort of muscle mass conversion has been going on? If he's taking it seriously, and there's no reason to doubt him after the Klitschko fight in fairness to him, then we could well see him back.

He also has the best chance of avoiding that hammer of a right hand that Wilder undoubtedly possesses out of any of the current crop of heavyweights. 

Fury will make it dirty when he's not at range and is right up there off the back foot. Ortiz gave Wilder a few problems counter punching and if Fury can last the rounds he's a hard man to hit clean. Ortiz took some huge shots in that fight though that I'm not convinced Fury can take, mind you he'll move out the way of most of them.

Problem is he's got to be on point whereas Wilder could easily be lucky (Not that he needs to be). Fury is actually probably able to deal with the speed, it's the power eh? 1 punch could be all it takes. Wilder has to be the favourite going in due to the Fury soap opera of the last few years and the resilience Wilder showed against Ortiz, but I just can't write Fury off that easily - he's the epitomy of the write him off at your peril type character. Like Dr P says though, Wilder ALWAYS finds a way to land that right hand. Both keep their hands low, both keep their opponents guessing where the punches are coming from, both like a show-boat now and then.

Assuming Fury is taking things seriously it's a real pick-em for me. Head says Wilder KO's him late on. Heart says don't bet against Fury.

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I really have no interest in Crawford, he's a 31 year old, 3 weight world champ with not a single A level boxer on his resume. His resume at best has B- level opponents on it. Yes he's very good but for god sake he needs a real test for once in his career. He struggled a hell of a lot with a vastly smaller Gamboa, that fight shouldn't be forgotten. 

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