If there was a general election tomorrow...

[leviramsey]

i raised this before in another thread ..I still don't see the validity of this argument ... Would you get a degree in Law and then go work as an accountant ? Would you rather get operated on by a surgeon who had done med school and studied in that field or a mechanic ..and so on

If you joined a firm as an apprentice and worked with experienced people and then rose through the ranks of that company wouldn't you know it inside out ,the workings and so on ..and then wouldn't you use that experience ??

Professional politicians may well be more competent at governing.

But I don't think government should be competent...

[Awol]

Conservative by a process of elimination. They are the best chance to get rid of one of the most destructive government's in history - and I don't think they'll be anywhere near as bad as the incumbents - so it's Davey boy for me.

My biggest worry about the next GE is Labour getting in through the back door with a Lib/Lab coalition if the Tories don't get a majority. I think it would go: GE - coalition - rioting - GE in about six months.

A second GE after a failed minority 'leftist' government could also get pretty ugly in terms of who was elected imo..

[Jon]

- and I don't think they'll be anywhere near as bad as the incumbents -

there really is absolutely no way of knowing this ....

especially as they have said very little about what they intend to do.

and also becuase, as we have seen, what a party puts in its manifesto, or says it will do, is largely irrelevant.

The only real way to make sure the nexy govt is not as bad as the incumbents is BIAD, and that ain't going to happen.

TBH - i'm not sure about Davey Boy at all. I'd actually quite like to elect BoJo, were he to stand (for comedy value if nothign else, and for the fact he seems just to say what he thinks)

My only hope is that when The Tories get in, they have softened up since last time, and will look after the less able sectors of society. Labour did not address the povery gap anywhere near enough, and as "the party of the people/workers", they really should have.

What chance do the less well off have under a Tory Govt, if their own party abandoned them ....

[Gringo]

i raised this before in another thread ..I still don't see the validity of this argument ... Would you get a degree in Law and then go work as an accountant ? Would you rather get operated on by a surgeon who had done med school and studied in that field or a mechanic ..and so on

Raised it before? You've been banging this drum for the past 6 months. And still I have seen no one outside of westminster party circles that agrees with you.

If you joined a firm as an apprentice and worked with experienced people and then rose through the ranks of that company wouldn't you know it inside out ,the workings and so on ..and then wouldn't you use that experience ??

Which is precisely the counter argument to yours. You do join the firm and serve as an apprentice. You become a back bench MP and serve a couple of parliaments learning the ropes, before getting a junior post, then a junior ministerial appointment and after 20 years maybe become a minister. It doesn't mean that you leave school and go and work for the tory party and never experience any other career outside of politics.

Politicians have to make choices about law, about accountancy about medicine about war - what good does 10 years working as a consultant to the tory party do them in helping make those decisions? Having had a career outside politics you experience more first hand and definitely encounter more people who have first hand experience. Inside politics you encounter people who want to scratch your back if you'll scratch theirs.

[rjw63]

Same as the idol bastards who dont vote, your spoilt paper changes nothing

*idle*

You watch too much reality TV mate!

[Awol]

- and I don't think they'll be anywhere near as bad as the incumbents -

there really is absolutely no way of knowing this ....

If the Tories took over then left on mass for Barbados after putting the RSPCA in charge of the country then (short of invading Iran) it couldn't be any worse than it has been.

especially as they have said very little about what they intend to do.

I'm afraid this just isn't correct Jon:

Here

They can't say in minute detail exactly what they would do until they have seen the books and the true scale of the debt we are in, but they have already given a much clearer idea of what they intend to do in terms of policy than Blair's NL pre 1997.

and also becuase, as we have seen, what a party puts in its manifesto, or says it will do, is largely irrelevant.

That is definitely fair comment.

The only real way to make sure the nexy govt is not as bad as the incumbents is BIAD, and that ain't going to happen.

Maybe not this time but as I wrote above, a second GE shortly after the next one could precipate all sorts of change. I honestly think we are heading for a perfect storm in 2010 with rising unemployment, the possibility of another big financial crash (and we couldn't bail out a second one without totally busting the country) social unrest, an unpopular war; it could all add up to revolutionary change.

TBH - i'm not sure about Davey Boy at all. I'd actually quite like to elect BoJo, were he to stand (for comedy value if nothign else, and for the fact he seems just to say what he thinks)

I reckon BoJo would be great - almost Churchillian.

My only hope is that when The Tories get in, they have softened up since last time, and will look after the less able sectors of society. Labour did not address the povery gap anywhere near enough, and as "the party of the people/workers", they really should have.

What chance do the less well off have under a Tory Govt, if their own party abandoned them ....

All I can really go on are the many deabtes I've had with a Tory PPC friend and he's convinced me that thngs will be very different from the party of Maggie if they get in. She had to fix the economy, the current lot are looking to fix both the economy and society.

There is an interesting article in the Torygraph about this very issue that you might find interesting: David Cameron and ‘Red Tory’s’ promise to heal Britain through community values

Known as the “Red Tory,” Phillip Blond will be watched by the Conservative leader as he unveils his radical theories for healing troubled neighbourhoods at the launch of his new think tank, ResPublica.

The former theology lecturer’s views have created a stir in Tory circles, due to his rejection of Thatcherism and the primacy of the market.

Instead, Mr Blond believes, power should be given to community groups, volunteers and church leaders to solve social problems.

His “progressive Conservative message” is known to chime with Mr Cameron’s values, although some within the party are said to be less enthusiastic about the former socialist’s message that the market does not know best.

Steve Hilton, Mr Cameron’s policy adviser who is responsible for much of the party’s recent “blue skies thinking,” and Oliver Letwin, in charge of drawing up the election manifesto, are both fans.

Mr Letwin has said: “Blond's work is seminal. He's one of the most exciting thinkers around.”

At the launch, Mr Blond will outline his view that ordinary working people have been “crowded out” from the opportunity to increase their wealth and access entrepreneurship under Labour.

But, he will add, ending the “monopoly dominance” of big private sector firms in areas such as banking and supermarkets must also be carried out in order to help the less well off.

The “Red Tory” will call for church and community groups to offer services along the model offered by the John Lewis partnership, where employees have a stake in the business.

In an interview this week, he said: "It's about capitalising on our two biggest assets – the insight and dedication of front-line staff and the engagement and involvement of citizens and communities.

"The state has bailed out the banking system but has proved incapable of saving its own citizens from debt and servitude.

"Moreover the state has arrested social mobility and destroyed the structures of working class advancement.”

Mr Blond was also scathing about Labour’s destruction of the “respectable working class,” accusing the party of fostering a form of multiculturalism which divided rather than integrated society.

He said: "And in the absence of a common British narrative that unites all peoples and classes; proper respect for other cultures and traditions has collapsed into a state sanctioned multiculturalism that has produced antagonistic communities and licensed the return of extremism and racism."

The Conservative leadership is, however, keen to make clear that Mr Cameron does not sign up for the entire “Red Tory” project.

A spokesman for Mr Cameron said: "The fact that David Cameron is appearing at this event doesn't mean that he endorses all of Phillip Blond's views."

Just as Blair took Labour away from socialism in order to get them elected, I think Cameron will continue 'managing out' the old and bold Tories that make people shudder, and aims introduce a more social conservatism based on strengthening communities. That's worth voting for imo.

[Gringo]

Spoilt ballot here.

Just out of interest why?

Same as the idol bastards who dont vote, your spoilt paper changes nothing in the great scheme. (You may feel you have made a protest vote)

Just seems a bit meaningless really

Sorry

It's because of the people who do vote that we have such useless govts - they're the ones who chose them. If more people actually demanded change instead of doing as they're told things might improve.

What's worse? To abstain and register your distrust /dissapproval of the current political franchises or to vote and approve of the fools running the country.

[Awol]

Politicians have to make choices about law, about accountancy about medicine about war - what good does 10 years working as a consultant to the tory party do them in helping make those decisions? Having had a career outside politics you experience more first hand and definitely encounter more people who have first hand experience. Inside politics you encounter people who want to scratch your back if you'll scratch theirs.

100%. That is why I was hoping Huhne would get the leadership of the Lib Dems instead of that wet fart Clegg.

[tonyh29]

Raised it before? You've been banging this drum for the past 6 months

you do exaggerate Gringo ...it was one thread and i posed it as a question and then added why i thought it was a good idea !!

but talking about banging drums ..how is BIAD going

[tonyh29]

Looking at the poll , am i right in thinking the BNP vote has dropped off since the last time we had a poll (i'm sure they beat the Tories into 4th last time?)

Does that mean last time ( which was around the Euro election time )they were being used as a protest vote ? or just that their "supporters" haven't voted this time ?

[mjmooney]

Raised it before? You've been banging this drum for the past 6 months

you do exaggerate Gringo ...it was one thread and i posed it as a question and then added why i thought it was a good idea !!

but talking about banging drums ..how is BIAD going

Quite nicely by the look of it.

[snowychap]

Unfortunately, it's sometimes an easy get-out to crap on about 'Eton', 'the buller' or, what is more invidious, generally, 'private schools'.

I thought Eton and the like were public schools :?

All (UK) Public schools are private schools. :winkold:

[tonyh29]

Quite nicely by the look of it.

:-)

but WTF , Here's a chair , i'm going to throw a bit of lace over it and call it art and then probably sell it to some rich person with more money than sense

i'm off to go home and paint my cat blue and pink and sell her as living art for £200,000

[mjmooney]

Unfortunately, it's sometimes an easy get-out to crap on about 'Eton', 'the buller' or, what is more invidious, generally, 'private schools'.

I thought Eton and the like were public schools :?

All (UK) Public schools are private schools. :winkold:

I assumed it was a joky rhetorical question, and that most Americans had fathomed the paradox by now, but just in case....

Why are British private schools called "public" schools?

Because way back in Ye Olde Days, the real only schooling that existed was private tutoring for the offspring of for royalty and the aristocracy - mainly Latin and Greek, etc.

During the late middle ages, a thriving middle class emerged - tradesmen, merchants and so on - with a bit of disposable income. These guys wanted education for their sons (not daughters obviously, don't be silly), so some enterprising academics (usually churchmen - monks, etc.) set up schools for the public - i.e. anybody who could afford the fees (not peasants!)

For many centuries, these fee-paying "public schools" were the ONLY schools that existed. During the 18th & 19th centuries, local churches would sometime set up little village schools charging small fees, but it was only in the late Victorian era that the idea of free education for the working classes began to take hold.

Lots of changes since then, but the terminology has stuck - what in America would be called "public schools" are usually known here as "state schools", while the original "public schools" continue as private, fee-paying institutions.

Here endeth the lesson.

[Gringo]

Raised it before? You've been banging this drum for the past 6 months

you do exaggerate Gringo ...it was one thread and i posed it as a question and then added why i thought it was a good idea !!

OK - maybe a little

but talking about banging drums ..how is BIAD going

More outside support for BIAD than career politicians. When the revolution comes, those PWC consultants and their supporters will be first up against the wall.

[Jon]

Raised it before? You've been banging this drum for the past 6 months

you do exaggerate Gringo ...it was one thread and i posed it as a question and then added why i thought it was a good idea !!

OK - maybe a little

but talking about banging drums ..how is BIAD going

More outside support for BIAD than career politicians. When the revolution comes, those PWC consultants and their supporters will be first up against the wall.

surely first atop the stake?

BTAD.

[mykeyb]

Spoilt ballot here.

Just out of interest why?

Same as the idol bastards who dont vote, your spoilt paper changes nothing in the great scheme. (You may feel you have made a protest vote)

Just seems a bit meaningless really

Sorry

It is far better to exercise your democratic right than not, if you can't see that then............you're thinking is a tad limited imo

Spoilt papers are recorded and until we get "None of the Above" on the ballot paper it is the only legitimate means of recording your displeasure at all the candidates on offer

Who would really care?

The MP who wins in that ward - no they will be busy celebrating

The losers - maybe but what can they do about it.

There are always going to be more of the populous who dont bother to vote than those who can be bothered but dont feel able to vote for a political party.

To think it will make any difference in the slightest is " a tad limited"

[mykeyb]

Same as the idol bastards who dont vote, your spoilt paper changes nothing

*idle*

You watch too much reality TV mate!

Clucking bell 1 incorrect letter and 1 in the wrong place.

Well done Rob - I will enable my fcuking sepll chcekre nxet tmie

[mykeyb]

Spoilt ballot here.

Just out of interest why?

Same as the idol bastards who dont vote, your spoilt paper changes nothing in the great scheme. (You may feel you have made a protest vote)

Just seems a bit meaningless really

Sorry

It's because of the people who do vote that we have such useless govts - they're the ones who chose them. If more people actually demanded change instead of doing as they're told things might improve.

What's worse? To abstain and register your distrust /dissapproval of the current political franchises or to vote and approve of the fools running the country.

So you spoil your ballot paper and your next door neighbour just cant be arsed.

Just say BNP got enough votes to win in your ward - your action and your neighbours inaction could hand those scum a seat.

You may well morally be correct but it would be a cold comfort i suspect

[Gringo]

Spoilt ballot here.

Just out of interest why?

Same as the idol bastards who dont vote, your spoilt paper changes nothing in the great scheme. (You may feel you have made a protest vote)

Just seems a bit meaningless really

Sorry

It's because of the people who do vote that we have such useless govts - they're the ones who chose them. If more people actually demanded change instead of doing as they're told things might improve.

What's worse? To abstain and register your distrust /dissapproval of the current political franchises or to vote and approve of the fools running the country.

So you spoil your ballot paper and your next door neighbour just cant be arsed.

Just say BNP got enough votes to win in your ward - your action and your neighbours inaction could hand those scum a seat.

You may well morally be correct but it would be a cold comfort i suspect

And maybe if the BNP won a few seats the incumbent crooks might realise the system is broke and try to do something to fix it. If the incumbent crooks get voted in due to "no alternative apathy" or 10 year switch-voters, then the broken wheel keeps on turning.