If there was a general election tomorrow...

[snowychap]

I also think, Tony, that to say some can't look past Cameron's school is a bit flippant.

I think this is more to do with VT history and inane political commentary than Tony's defence of Eton.

His point (behind a screen): is that one's school ought not to have as much of a bearing upon one's politics as the political convictions one espouses.

Unfortunately, it's sometimes an easy get-out to crap on about 'Eton', 'the buller' or, what is more invidious, generally, 'private schools'.

[tonyh29]

How can you vote for someone in the hope he's not going to do what he says he's going to do? just seems a bit mental in the logic department

i thought the whole point / argument was that Cameron hasn't actually ever said what he was going to do

and images of strikes and general bad times.

of course you're a student and you have to hate Thatch it's ingrained into Students from an early age :-) but i'm assuming you weren't alive in the 70's and early 80's ? 3 day week , rubbish over flowing on the streets ,power cuts

the strikes were because of the mess the country was left in by the previous government ..nothing to do with Thatcher ..she did turn the country around , the medicine may have been tough , even her own party turned on her economic policies in the early days , but she was right and the country pulled through and on the whole things got better ...of course some areas suffered but a lot of the mines for example were already down to close under the Labour government anyway , in many cases the unions had already agreed it ..

fast forward to now and we have déjà vu ..the country is in a bad way , Brown has already demonstrated he is without a clue .. and the Lib dems shouldn't even be allowed near Parliament ..so that only leaves us with Jedward or Cameron to run the country

And of course there's the fact the bloke is effectively institutionalised, he's been politics his entire career. I still think rather a lot of people feel a bit more trust in a bloke who's actually had to work outside of the political sphere. Cameron's not.

i raised this before in another thread ..I still don't see the validity of this argument ... Would you get a degree in Law and then go work as an accountant ? Would you rather get operated on by a surgeon who had done med school and studied in that field or a mechanic ..and so on

If you joined a firm as an apprentice and worked with experienced people and then rose through the ranks of that company wouldn't you know it inside out ,the workings and so on ..and then wouldn't you use that experience ??

[tonyh29]

I think this is more to do with VT history and inane political commentary than Tony's defence of Eton.

His point (behind a screen): is that one's school ought not to have as much of a bearing upon one's politics as the political convictions one espouses.

Unfortunately, it's sometimes an easy get-out to crap on about 'Eton', 'the buller' or, what is more invidious, generally, 'private schools'.

this

:-)

[snowychap]

..she did turn the country around

Keep telling yourself that, mate.

(She may have changed the country but it was nowhere near necessarily for the better).

The icon in the corner of the room will, undoubtedly, appear less nonsensical each morning.

[bickster]

Not going to quote you Tony as it would get very messy but a few ponts.

If Cameron has said nothing (he hasnt but thats a different matter and also not what you said) then how can you vote for him?

Labour inherited the mess from Heath in the first place, doesn't excuse Labours then inept government but please don't say it was all Labours fault, I have memories of people on the street marching for Heath Out! because the country was up shit creek with him too

And I really don't want someone running the country because he's got a degree in Economics, philosophy and politics. When I went to Uni that was a cop-out degree in the first place, they used to hand out joint Honours Degrees in the student Union bogs, 2460 of them per roll, in pink.....;-)

Seriously though, even viewing Politician as a job is wrong in my view, it is not a profession, it was never intended to be. The fact that it is viewed in such a way is part of the problem, voting in yet another careerist won't help imo

[snowychap]

I think this is more to do with VT history and inane political commentary than Tony's defence of Eton.

His point (behind a screen): is that one's school ought not to have as much of a bearing upon one's politics as the political convictions one espouses.

Unfortunately, it's sometimes an easy get-out to crap on about 'Eton', 'the buller' or, what is more invidious, generally, 'private schools'.

this

:-)

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

The problem is no party is really showing leadership potential.

Tbh, i wouldn't be at all suprised if the public went down the 'i'll vote for the devil i know, rather than the one i don't' route.

[bickster]

...of course some areas suffered but a lot of the mines for example were already down to close under the Labour government anyway , in many cases the unions had already agreed it ..

No one ever went on strike to save the pits that were due to close anyway, so I really don't know what the point of that was (oh and the use of the word lots is using artistic licence, some, a small number would be more accurate use of language). Plenty of mines were still perfectly viable (especially in Wales) and she closed them too, why? I think we all know the answer and it had nothing to do with economics and everything to do with both smashing the unions AND breaking working class communities, she really didn't like people co-operating with each other for mutual and non selfish benefit, she wanted to have a nation of hungry selfish bastards - we're still suffering from this lunacy today and guess what its ironically the Tory party who crap on about being tough with law and order (thats red and blue right wing parties btw), they **** created the problems in the first place, but now were supposed to vote them back in to fix the shite the created

Thatcher is and was a **** witch. I will dance in the street the day she dies, history will eventually show her up to be what she was - inherently evil

[snowychap]

Plenty of mines were still perfectly viable

There is a great deal of research that would say that few mines were 'uneconomical' and that the industry, overall, was fine (if a more sensible and prudent analytical appraisal had taken place).

[tonyh29]

If Cameron has said nothing (he hasnt but thats a different matter and also not what you said) then how can you vote for him?

it was kinda aimed at people who have accused the Tory party of not having any policies ..obviously missed :-)

what i was really saying is the tory party lost their way due to infighting and Cameron is not going to fall into that trap whilst there is an election on the horizon ... once he is in power then i think you will see some real policy and what he can do , maybe he will even do something about Europe ..

had labour kicked Brown they may have stood a chance of winning but they also stood a chance of imploding and thus i think they learnt from the Tory partys mistakes .. If they had kicked him i think they would be squabbling for years .. the current plan seems to be let Gordon lose and stand down as leader and then see if they cna't steal back power after one term

And I really don't want someone running the country because he's got a degree in Economics, philosophy and politics

No you want them becuase they have had a real job ..maybe working in Tesco or drivng a bus ???

i do however disagree , I think Politics is now a career and to some always has been ..William Pitt , Wilberforce etc

the alternative is we go down the American route and go for ex actors ..maybe Stephen Fry could run for PM ....

[snowychap]

once he is in power then i think you will see some real policy and what he can do ,

That's one of your funniest ones.

Really? Surely not?

I mean, really, seriously, not. :shock:

[bickster]

Plenty of mines were still perfectly viable

There is a great deal of research that would say that few mines were 'uneconomical' and that the industry, overall, was fine (if a more ensible and prudent analytical appraisal had taken place).

It is true that a small number were non viable though. Though Tower Number 4 in Hirwaun was on the closure list under Herr Thatcher, it finally ran out of coal (some of the best carbon rich coal in the world by the way, so powerful it often had to be diluted with shit English coal ) last year

Yes, that was my Grandads pit, so theres a degree of pride

[tonyh29]

and it had nothing to do with economics and everything to do with both smashing the unions AND breaking working class communities

and nothing to do with Scargil i suppose ? Scargill was stupid enough to think he could try and overthrow another government

The current failed regulatory environment of the financial system was set up under Labour, not Thatcher.

The "Thatcher" house price boom went bust in 1990. The current one was driven by totally different forces - immigration, lack of social housing, and easy credit.

The idea that more union power would in some way be helping us now is questionable ...

still , if only jim callahan had another 17 years - imagine the paradise we'd be living in now.

[bickster]

..maybe Stephen Fry could run for PM ....

We could do much much worse.........

[tonyh29]

That's one of your funniest ones.

Really? Surely not?

I mean, really, seriously, not.

how do you know .. i remember many a person thinking Brown would be a good PM and couldn't wait to get rid off Blair ..and look how wrong they were on that score

so why not judge him after his term rather than before

[snowychap]

The current failed regulatory environment of the financial system was set up under Labour, not Thatcher.

The "Thatcher" house price boom went bust in 1990. The current one was driven by totally different forces - immigration, lack of social housing, and easy credit.

The idea that more union power would in some way be helping us now is questionable ...

'Ere, I thought you'd look with skepticism at the fairy from the end of your garden.

[bickster]

and nothing to do with Scargil i suppose ? Scargill was stupid enough to think he could try and overthrow another government

Scargill was only taking up the gauntlet laid down by herr thatcher, he was an idiot but really he had little choice, his entire industry was at risk, idiot that he was, he also only had two choices, cave in or fight.

The current failed regulatory environment of the financial system was set up under Labour, not Thatcher.

Agreed though I don't understand the relevance

The "Thatcher" house price boom went bust in 1990. The current one was driven by totally different forces - immigration, lack of social housing, and easy credit.

No it wasn't, it was dickhead bankers thinking for some strange reason that sub-prime loans could work. But Seeing as you mention lack of social housing..........remind me who sold them all off in the first place? Easy credit was more Brown's fault though, he was the one that built the economy on the principal that everyone would borrow, borrow, borrow

The idea that more union power would in some way be helping us now is questionable ...

Sorry I'm not sure where I said that.

still , if only jim callahan had another 17 years - imagine the paradise we'd be living in now.

Didn't say he was any good, all I said was that he inherited the problems created by Heaths Tory Government, a fact which often gets ignored for some reason

[snowychap]

That's one of your funniest ones.

Really? Surely not?

I mean, really, seriously, not.

how do you know .. i remember many a person thinking Brown would be a good PM and couldn't wait to get rid off Blair ..and look how wrong they were on that score

so why not judge him after his term rather than before

'Many a person' may well have held that view.

I am not 'many a person', though.

I didn't hold that view about Gordo so I think your point is 'pointless'.

How do I know?

I don't.

I believe, however, that Cameron is a disaster on legs. (That isn't any kind of promotion for Gordo- it is only foools who think that an enemy's enemy is a friend and vice versa).

[bickster]

That's one of your funniest ones.

Really? Surely not?

I mean, really, seriously, not.

how do you know .. i remember many a person thinking Brown would be a good PM and couldn't wait to get rid off Blair ..and look how wrong they were on that score

so why not judge him after his term rather than before

'Many a person' may well have held that view.

I am not 'many a person', though.

I didn't hold that view about Gordo so I think your point is 'pointless'.

How do I know?

I don't.

I believe, however, that Cameron is a disaster on legs. (That isn't any kind of promotion for Gordo- it is only foools who think that an enemy's enemy is a friend and vice versa).

Yes I think its a principal known as reverse dratism

If someone slags off the Tories I must come back with a point about Labour ;-)

[leviramsey]

Unfortunately, it's sometimes an easy get-out to crap on about 'Eton', 'the buller' or, what is more invidious, generally, 'private schools'.

I thought Eton and the like were public schools :?