roadoftrinity Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Petrov can stand around the pitch, get the ball deep, pass it back, get the ball again, pass the ball back. Let the midfield run past him. Yeah nice. Petrov was in the top 5 tacklers in the Premier League last season, he was for most of the season anyway, the stats that they show on the Sky Sports website, with on of the best percentage of sucsess rate. So it kind of defeats your point that he cant tackle, but then the Opta stats are most likely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedge Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 AVFC - Petrov and Barry were only shit together on occasions because when they were dead on there feet with 10 minutes to go and we had NRC and Sidwell on the bench MON still refused to take them off! Thats why we conceded so many late goals because those two and more were knackered! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Yeah one of the best success rate but doesn't mean he makes loads of tackles just when he does he wins them, the amount of times I saw someone go past him last year or just by-pass him for pace was stupid, He's our last line of midfield when he plays and yet he's far too easy to go past leaving us exposed. Recovery's aswell, against Bolton, there were 2/3 times Bolton passed through our midfield and were in a dangerous position before Coker and Sidwell got back to make tackles, with Petrov this doesn't happen because he isn't quick enough. He has to mark man for man in a 4-4-2 which he struggles to do because he hasn't got a great engine, 4-5-1 it's easier because he can mark more zonally and less actually running with a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dappadan Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Not just success rate AVFC it was by amount of tackles as well. I agree with a lot you said about Petrov but not this, the guy knows how to tackle and does it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V111A Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 How can people slag off Petrov, Its clear that when he plays he is our only midfielder who can put his foot on the ball and he looks like he has an extra few seconds to the rest. Petrov is a million times the player of Reo Coker!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 How can people slag off Petrov, Its clear that when he plays he is our only midfielder who can put his foot on the ball and he looks like he has an extra few seconds to the rest. Petrov is a million times the player of Reo Coker!! Yeah because off the ball isn't important in football, It's clear that if you have people who can pass 10 yards comfortably then you'll do far better, your right, I mean that Barry and Petrov partnership last year worked an absolute treat, our best two technical midfield players in the centre and look at all those brilliant results, so your right, let's not consider off the ball, let's just consider who can pass the ball the best over 10 yards. As for Petrov's tackling, okay It sounds as if I'm wrong there but you can't tell me that defensively on a whole he's fairly average simply because of his energy levels, how quickly he becomes tired, his lack of pace and mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Petrov really isn't as shit as some like to make out. Do you really think his team mates would have voted for him as the best player and be happy to play under him as captain if he really was shit and was costing us points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Don't think he's shit but I think he doesn't offer us much, last year we played 4-5-1 for most of our successful period where he was excellent for us and one of our best players, which he usually is when we play 4-5-1, when we changed to 4-4-2, each and every player probably bar Luke Young and John Carew were average until the back end of the season, so the players went for our best player for the first 6 months, which was probably Petrov. Also, what he does is mask his overall contribution, he rarely ever gives the ball away which means it looks like he's playing well when in fact overall, he's offering us nothing we haven't already got to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Don't think he's shit but I think he doesn't offer us much, last year we played 4-5-1 for most of our successful period where he was excellent for us and one of our best players, which he usually is when we play 4-5-1, when we changed to 4-4-2, each and every player probably bar Luke Young and John Carew were average until the back end of the season, so the players went for our best player for the first 6 months, which was probably Petrov. Also, what he does is mask his overall contribution, he rarely ever gives the ball away which means it looks like he's playing well when in fact overall, he's offering us nothing we haven't already got to be honest. Spot on. I'd agree with this wholeheartedly. I think the Bolton game demonstrated fully what an energetic CM pairing can achieve. I would also agree that Stan is technically better than NRC but I think NRC's athleticism more than compensates for this and trumps it, especially in the last 30 minutes. I also think Stan's ball retention slows us down and this can be a problem against the poorer teams as they have a chance to regroup rather than facing Ash & Gab one on one when the ball is got forward quicker. Having said that, as you rightly say, Stan does play a strong part in a 4-5-1 formation. I wouldn't mind seeing this against Burnley with the option of Delph or Carew for Sidders in the last 30 minutes depending upon how the 4-5-1 is working and the score at that point, although I think MON will play JC after the Bolton game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadoftrinity Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Yeah one of the best success rate but doesn't mean he makes loads of tackles just when he does he wins them, the amount of times I saw someone go past him last year or just by-pass him for pace was stupid, He's our last line of midfield when he plays and yet he's far too easy to go past leaving us exposed. Recovery's aswell, against Bolton, there were 2/3 times Bolton passed through our midfield and were in a dangerous position before Coker and Sidwell got back to make tackles, with Petrov this doesn't happen because he isn't quick enough. He has to mark man for man in a 4-4-2 which he struggles to do because he hasn't got a great engine, 4-5-1 it's easier because he can mark more zonally and less actually running with a man. On at least one of them occasions, was because NRC feel over the ball because he was put under presure, which he will do because he is not confident of receiving the ball under pressure. As for Petrov, the list that he was was based on the most tackles made, he was in the top 5 and had the highest % of success rate so he must be doing something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadoftrinity Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 although I think MON will play JC after the Bolton game. And so he bloody should, would you suggest dropping him after playing his best game of the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I think Petrov and NRC would work very well. Last season it should of been Barry/Petrov and NRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I've watched Burnley several times, albeit on MOTD and have been very impressed with their style of football. They move the ball quickly and have players who will hurt us. We need Reo-Coker in midfield to stamp on a few of them and i do fear if we play Petrov he will be targeted. We therefore need Sidwell in there to watch their midfield runners from deep. Burnley's system will however suit our counter attacking play, if O'Neill chooses the right team and if this is indeed the case, we will catch them on the break. I therefore expect us to win the game, dependant on who our master tactician plays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddy Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I'd like to think I'll turn up on Saturday and find that Reo-Coker is in the team, either with one up front or with no Sidwell. But I'm fairly sure I won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 why no Sidwell, Sidwell and Reo-Coker seems the best partnership so far this season, if it ain't broke.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Have Petrov and Reo-Coker played together yet though (in a two)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Have Petrov and Reo-Coker played together yet though (in a two)? No, I'd personally use them as a pairing against Portsmouth though to see how they did but not in a tough game against Burnley who as sting said like to pass the ball around and use it and have decent movement. Petrov has had poor results alongside Barry in a 4-4-2, Delph in a 4-4-2, Average alongside Sidwell. Okay he hasn't played with Petrov, but it's as if Petrov needs a special midfield partner to carry him through games because of his lack of engine in a 4-4-2, what if him and Reo-Coker don't work in a 4-4-2, would that not prove to people Petrov just simply cannot play in a 4-4-2. Argh just fustrated, people rate a player who can pass a ball nicely 10 yards is rated so highly when his flaws are so much more important than his abilities. He can pass a ball nicely along the ground 10 yards backwards, sideways, maybe 2/3 forward passes but then you look at the bad points of his game, the fact defensively he gets over-run and moblity isn't great, after 60 minutes he's usually nackered. It's not as if he's crap defensively and quite immobile but does score goals and create goals and people go "but he offers goals from midfield" it's the fact he doesn't actually do anything apart from pass the ball backwards most of the time and offer us nothing going forward and nothing much defensively. Okay Sidwell isn't some sort of great player but at least he can get around the pitch, hassle people and then get himself into the box from crosses, whether he scores is irrelevant, it means Bolton have to mark different players, midfielders have to track into the box, leaving less chance of a break because less numbers going forward because back defensively. The fact Sidwell makes runs beyond strikers opens up space for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc89 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Burnley are very dangerous at Home. They play football on the ground and hold no consternation at Turf Moor. I'm quite confident going into this match, we've just drummed Bolton 5-1 at VP, and could of scored more. UTV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoe Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 NRC in for Sidwell for me. Sidwell can't hit the side of the bus when he has an opportunity to score, and hasn't been too impressive at the other end either (ie Wolves Penalty)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quizme Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 while Sidwell and Reo-Coker will win the ball more in midfield meaning we can break and attack quickly and therefore create more chances on goal When the **** has Sidwell ever won the ball or Reo Coker been able to pass the ball properly after winning it in order to create a quick attack. You are blinded by your belief that Petrov, our best player last season and one of our best this season is somehow shit and that Reo-Coker is the second coming of Gheorghe Hagi. Did you watch the Bolton game, did you see the all important first goal early on? Oh wait, what happened there, that's right, Sidwell won a tackle in the middle of the park, got it wide and 10 seconds later were 0-1 up. Not just winning tackles but also putting players under pressure because of his very good work rate. Reo-Coker, well clearly as remember I counted the passes in the Peace Cup, he had something like 34 passes succesful out of 37. He wins the ball and passes it simple and keeps the ball. The pass of the ball isn't the key in the attack, it's the winning of the ball, Bolton have the ball in midfield and look to attack, Bolton wingers as usually are, are pushed up which means as soon as we win the ball, a simply 10/15 yard pass into Young/Milner or whatever and they have a one on one with their defender and we break. With Petrov in the team, it's a rarity we win the ball back in midfield which means when we do win the ball back, it's usually deep in our half meaning Bolton have time to re-organise. Petrov isn't shit, and Reo-Coker isn't the second coming of Gheorge Hagi but it's clear to me were stronger with those two in the team rather than Petrov. Just look at the results in a 4-4-2. Sidwell and Reo-Coker - Peace Cup - Win, Win, Draw (Win on pens) Sidwell and Reo-Coker - League - Win 5-1. Petrov and Barry - Shit. Petrov and Delph - Shit. Petrov and Sidwell - Pretty shit (2 wins in like 7?) Now what's the common factor in that? Please tell me what Petrov does in a 4-4-2? He doesn't score goals, defensively he's average and he passes the ball backwards all the time. Okay Sidwell hasn't been scoring or making goals but at least he can run around, pressurise players, make forward runs to give space to other players and generally to a decent box to box role. Petrov can stand around the pitch, get the ball deep, pass it back, get the ball again, pass the ball back. Let the midfield run past him. Yeah nice. This. Completly agree with AVFC on this. Sad thing is Petrov will start.... I think Petrov is a better player than both Sidwell and NRC but Sidwell and NRC is a better combo than Petrov with any of our other CM's. Strange, it really is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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