Emile Heskey - MON's worst signing?

[Big_John_10]

As for the world to choose from, are you seriously saying that Emile Heskey was the ONLY striker available around the entire planet for a move in January? Or do you think MON just pounced on a player that he has worked with previously due to relative success in the past?

I think the history the manager had with heskey played some part in the signing.

I really don't think we had brilliant options though.

If a player was real quality chances are they are at a big club and happy or at a small club and want to leave but most clubs don't want to sell their best players in the middle of the season.

The player has to be available for sale, has to be the right quality and has to be interested in joining aston villa at that point in the season.

I can't imagine the list was endless of players meeting that criteria, also signing someone from abroad would have been a big risk and wouldn't have solved short term problems as those players usually require a period to settle in.

Heskey was playing well for wigan, back in the england team, added a physical prescence we missed and the manager knew him as a person, it hasn't worked out but it also wasn't the stupidest decision in the world.

[avfc89]

Well, a year ago the winner of this title would undoubtedly have been Petrov, so it just shows there is hope for Heskey to settle into the side and show what he can do for anyone who has a bit more patience than a hyperactive gnat.

I think its fair to say at this moment, he has been poor at Villa. If he gets going and starts being useful for Aston Villa, I will happily change my opinion and admit I was wrong. And move on to my next victim :winkold:

[reddwarf]

Heskey played on the wing more than once for Leicester and Liverpool. He can play there.

I still can't believe people just think striker = goalscorer. He's never scored many, no, but he's often helped other strikers score more, particularly at Liverpool with Owen. Thats why people buy him, to anchor attacks and play off him.

I do believe the assist v wolves - was his first assist for villa

[reddwarf]

As for the world to choose from, are you seriously saying that Emile Heskey was the ONLY striker available around the entire planet for a move in January? Or do you think MON just pounced on a player that he has worked with previously due to relative success in the past?

I think the history the manager had with heskey played some part in the signing.

I really don't think we had brilliant options though.

If a player was real quality chances are they are at a big club and happy or at a small club and want to leave but most clubs don't want to sell their best players in the middle of the season.

The player has to be available for sale, has to be the right quality and has to be interested in joining aston villa at that point in the season.

I can't imagine the list was endless of players meeting that criteria, also signing someone from abroad would have been a big risk and wouldn't have solved short term problems as those players usually require a period to settle in.

Heskey was playing well for wigan, back in the england team, added a physical prescence we missed and the manager knew him as a person, it hasn't worked out but it also wasn't the stupidest decision in the world.

Even if is this true - this still doesn't explain his continued selection - after almost a year of dross ?

[Chindie]

Heskey played on the wing more than once for Leicester and Liverpool. He can play there.

I still can't believe people just think striker = goalscorer. He's never scored many, no, but he's often helped other strikers score more, particularly at Liverpool with Owen. Thats why people buy him, to anchor attacks and play off him.

I do believe the assist v wolves - was his first assist for villa

He's not been a success here, as I said.

I also didn't say he directly set players up, he'd make space for them and so on, which wouldn't be classed as assist, would it?

[Junxs]

Heskey played on the wing more than once for Leicester and Liverpool. He can play there.

I still can't believe people just think striker = goalscorer. He's never scored many, no, but he's often helped other strikers score more, particularly at Liverpool with Owen. Thats why people buy him, to anchor attacks and play off him.

Interesting theory, shame Heskey can't do that either (at Villa at least). I'm sure Owen scored just as many if not more when not playing alongside Heskey. Be intereting to see his goals per game ratio at Liverpool with and without Heskey alongside him.

[Chindie]

I haven't got the stats to back it up but I know Houllier was very keen on him and has been quoted as saying that tactically Heskey was vital to that Liverpool side and was involved in a lot of good. And Owen IIRC is supposed to have often remarked he enjoyed playing alongside him.

It's a shame we don't have an Owen here, as Gabby doesn't think like a striker playing off a big man terribly well. And indeed we tend to not to have the guile as a side that is needed to make the most of Heskey. If it had worked out he'd have been a useful player to us I think.

[reddwarf]

Heskey played on the wing more than once for Leicester and Liverpool. He can play there.

I still can't believe people just think striker = goalscorer. He's never scored many, no, but he's often helped other strikers score more, particularly at Liverpool with Owen. Thats why people buy him, to anchor attacks and play off him.

I do believe the assist v wolves - was his first assist for villa

He's not been a success here, as I said.

I also didn't say he directly set players up, he'd make space for them and so on, which wouldn't be classed as assist, would it?

I will bow to your superior knowledge. But how does he (or anyone) 'create' space? ....in practical terms ?

[It's_your_round]

The defenders get surprised when he falls over with noone near him and when they injure him by looking at him, it causes havoc.

[Chindie]

You make the defence move with your presence, opening gaps in the back line. For example a defender would be marking a striker, who would move off, the defender will often follow if man marking and if the other defender isn't thinking/the other striker is smart enough, he'll run for the gap that;s made and exploit the space.

That's a very simple example but it's more or less what Heskey's made a career of. He was very good at it. More or less every striker can do it to an extent and have the goals as well, but Heskey was limited in the sense that he was very good at that aspect but had the finish of a toad.

[rjw63]

The defenders get surprised when he falls over with noone near him

[reddwarf]

You make the defence move with your presence, opening gaps in the back line. For example a defender would be marking a striker, who would move off, the defender will often follow if man marking and if the other defender isn't thinking/the other striker is smart enough, he'll run for the gap that;s made and exploit the space.

That's a very simple example but it's more or less what Heskey's made a career of. He was very good at it. More or less every striker can do it to an extent and have the goals as well, but Heskey was limited in the sense that he was very good at that aspect but had the finish of a toad.

Might be simple - but it doesn't work for me. If for example played Delfonso instead of Heskey - the opponents defence will still 'move with his presence' in the way you suggest ? ........or do they move differently because its Heskey ?

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

You make the defence move with your presence, opening gaps in the back line. For example a defender would be marking a striker, who would move off, the defender will often follow if man marking and if the other defender isn't thinking/the other striker is smart enough, he'll run for the gap that;s made and exploit the space.

That's a very simple example but it's more or less what Heskey's made a career of. He was very good at it. More or less every striker can do it to an extent and have the goals as well, but Heskey was limited in the sense that he was very good at that aspect but had the finish of a toad.

Might be simple - but it doesn't work for me. If for example played Delfonso instead of Heskey - the opponents defence will still 'move with his presence' in the way you suggest ? ........or do they move differently because its Heskey ?

People can play off Heskey also, Against Everton, alot of times he dropped deep for the ball, brought it down on his chest, good hold up play and got the ball then out wide, or dropped it back to midfield who continued the attack. Also Delfouneso perhaps could do this but is he experienced and clever enough to do this, it doesn't really bring the best out of him.

I actually think at times our team haven't given a Heskey a chance, alot of balls into him our in the air, He's not a "flick it on" sorta guy, far less so than John Carew, he's good when the ball is into his chest, again at Everton, first about 25/30 minutes of the game, he collected the ball deep a numerous times in good positions, on the floor and into his body/chest/knee and got it wide.

I'd also say we need people to get far closer to him, because alot of balls into him, he ends up bringing it down and then passing the ball back, nothing happens. Nothing threatens, because the ball is into him, noone's really close enough to him to get onto the ball,

I'd like to see Young/Milner really come off there flanks and anytime a ball goes into Heskey, dart inside to look to play off him. It's different with Carew, you can lump the ball into the air for him to flick on and the majority of the time he will do that, Heskey won't. The balls into him have to be of better quality, get people around and it will bring the best out of him. IMO.

[reddwarf]

ll,

I'd like to see Young/Milner really come off there flanks and anytime a ball goes into Heskey, dart inside to look to play off him

Are you being serious ? - Two of our better performers, should be taking a lead of our biggest non performer ?

[avfc89]

Chindie you must realise when Heskey was playing for Liverpool and Leicester, he had the youthful hunger to succeed and make a name for himself. He then moved to SHA after achieving everything he possibly could as a player in the game. And from my perspective lost that desire to play football at that point. He then found his home at Wigan, he was allowed to be himself and Steve Bruce then built the team around him. Our goal is to achieve CL football, is Heskey seriously good enough for where we want to go? Maybe 10 years ago....

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

ll,

I'd like to see Young/Milner really come off there flanks and anytime a ball goes into Heskey, dart inside to look to play off him

Are you being serious ? - Two of our better performers, should be taking a lead of our biggest non performer ?

I'd like to see them move inside anyway and be more creative, both aren't exactly producing the quality from out wide in those areas and if Heskey played upfront with Gabby, we've hardly got players who are constantly gonig to get goals in the air, so bringing them into the game, dropping them into the hole where they can pick the ball in space and run at team's back 4 would help Villa IMO, and Heskey is a very good when it comes down to bringing people into the game in these sort of positions, like Gerrard, Rooney etc....So I'd think we see more excitement, bring better out of Young, Milner, Heskey etc...also hopefully give Agbonlahor more to feed off, if say wingers are coming more inside then they can pick up balls in the "hole" and look for balls through the defence rather than balls into the box constantly which is basically what happens at the moment.

[Chindie]

ll,

I'd like to see Young/Milner really come off there flanks and anytime a ball goes into Heskey, dart inside to look to play off him

Are you being serious ? - Two of our better performers, should be taking a lead of our biggest non performer ?

If you can't grasp the concept of a player who's talents lend him to help other players shine, isn't getting any other players come to positions to help them shine, then this entire conversation is pointless.

For what it's worth, I think AVFC-POB has a point, Milner and Young especially could, once in w hile, come inside and use Heskey to add to their own game. They don't though. Probably aren't asked to tbh but it'd be nice to break up a play once in a while like this.

And yes the Fonz could do something similar but he doesn't have the experience/nous that Heskey has of doing it, and they are different players to begin with.

[Chindie]

Chindie you must realise when Heskey was playing for Liverpool and Leicester, he had the youthful hunger to succeed and make a name for himself. He then moved to SHA after achieving everything he possibly could as a player in the game. And from my perspective lost that desire to play football at that point. He then found his home at Wigan, he was allowed to be himself and Steve Bruce then built the team around him. Our goal is to achieve CL football, is Heskey seriously good enough for where we want to go? Maybe 10 years ago....

I'm not saying he's a vital cog to our side, far from it. I think we predominately bought him because MON likes big man up front and Carew was looking buggered for a long while so he wanted some experienced big bloke in, went for a Heskey he knew well, was reasonably priced and performing for England. It hasn't worked.

What I am saying is that this bollocks about him a crap useless lump is just that. He has his uses and I think Martin hoped to make use of them from the bench or while Carew was out. It hasn't worked and he should probably go. I don't think he's lost hunger or anything, I think he's just being a professional these days and trying to do his best, he's just now at a side where that won't happen. He made a mistake coming here, but I can't blame him or Martin for trying it. It's not like either of them bought him and went 'He's our new 20 a season striker'. Everyone knows he won't score many. He might score 10 in a stonking season.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Wait..wait..wait.

Are we seriously suggesting Heskey was a worse signing than Salifou?

[TRO]

There are some fundamentals in football that do not require any in put from your collegues and require an intrinsic input from the individual.

Against West Ham, there was one incident i picked up on that would frighten any centre forward on a play back.

Heskey was like a little boy lost in the fog, when a corner was about to be taken.... for a big man it was pitiful to watch.... but I am under no illusions if i think all that is wrong with Aston Villa is Heskey.