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PL: West Ham a Ratings & Reactions


limpid

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8 of our 11 league games this season have been against the bottom half. In those 8 games we have 11pts. Just over 1pt per game. The other 3 games against the top half have yielded 7pts which is over 2pts per game. Why can we not beat the shit?

Given the mysterious behavour of our leader, the surprise frankly is that we have done well against the good teams, not that we have done poorly against the bad.

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The game changed when Warnock got clattered in a challenge and had the wind knocked out of him. Prior to that he'd been bombing up and down the left and pretty much everything good we'd done had been either through him or Gabby.

I will say only one thing as I am still livid about this 'performance', even after a good nights sleep - That was the worst performance, tactically, from a manager, I have ever seen. The starting XI was wrong, the changes he made were wrong, the formation was wrong and I'm not sure how many more times I want to post the same thing on here this season. Their second goal had been coming for ages and MON did NOTHING.

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he inherited some quality players, the likes of Mellberg, Barry, Laursen, Bouma, Gabby. One by one they have left, and each time they have been replaced by players of lesser quality. We are now seeing the consequences.

Are you suggesting that the squad he inherited was better than the one we have now?

He inherited a handful of decent players, but they were far outnumbered by dross. That's why we were heading for near certain relegation.

(BTW last time I checked Bouma and Gabby were still at the club. And Laursen didn't leave, he was forced to retire.)

No, I'm saying some things dont change.

3 years ago we had 6 quality players - ish. Unfortunately they were surrounded by absolute dross like Samuel , McCann and all which dragged us down.

3 years on and we have about 3 quality players, 4 mediocre players and four shit players dragging us down.

The difference is - or should I say - the 120 million reasons , mean we shouldn't be still in that position.

Put it this way, give Graham Taylor, Ron Atkinson, John Gregory , Brian Little - 120 million quid - and dream of the football we'd be playing !

What 6 quality players did we have 3 years ago?

Shut up.

Ermmm

Off my head here

Barry , Mellberg , Laursen , Bouma , maybe a bit more contraversial , but I think Sorenson was just as good as Friedal has been, and a young Gabby.

On top of these he had Angel - now personally, I didn'tlike Angel - but many on here did. However, I'd rather have Angel tied up in chains, with blindfolds and locked in a suitcase on the pitch than bloody Emile Heskey = so there you go.

I make that 4 undisputed quality players - three of whom would probably make a list of best players we have had in the last 30 yrs , Angel and Sorenson, a young Gabby - AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON CAHILL !!! - not a bad start was it !

Barry was average, not many Villa fans would have been disappointed to see him go.

Mellberg was always a solid player for us, but he'd never get in a top 4 side, I'm sorry. I love Mellberg, but for me, Alpay was always the better defender.

Laursen? What the player that never played? He played a bit under O'Leary, we weren't raving about then. Excelled under MON. Was always a great player in there though, agreed.

Bouma? I take you back to a game at Upton Park where a certain dutchman made his debut. Another who has excelled under MON, not O'Leary.

Sorensen: Give me a break, mr I can't save at my near post. He was decent, but nothing special. Friedel is better. For the same money we got Friedel and Guzan combined. People need to start realising Guzan's progress has a lot to do with Friedel, MON is no fool.

Gabby: He would not be at AVFC now if O'Leary was still in charge, and if he was, he wouldn't be half the player he is now. Excellent guidance from MON.

I don't know if you're slagging off MON, or what? But the guy has done wonders for our football club. He's bought the top end of what he could. It may not be to everyone's taste, but in my opinion, it's working. We have a much better squad than we did three years ago, and the players you mention above - at their ability at the time - wouldn't get in today's AVFC team. Not a chance.

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8 of our 11 league games this season have been against the bottom half. In those 8 games we have 11pts. Just over 1pt per game. The other 3 games against the top half have yielded 7pts which is over 2pts per game. Why can we not beat the shit? It's really annoying.

I think it's our old friend style.

We play a physical pressing game with pace and we play the percentages; big man to aim at, quick man over the top and get it down the wings.

That's a strategy that means you can win or lose any game, because to some extent it removes the importance of being able to play the ball around or keep possession. It means that every time we play one of the big four we've got a real chance to win, because we turn the game into a contest on our terms and on our terms we're a reasonable match for anyone.

Unfortunately on our terms anyone is a reasonable match for us.

When you turn football matches into athletic contests you even the playing field but you even it up both ways and create a situation where you've a good chance of beating Chelsea and a reasonable chance of losing to QPR.

We need to learn to play slow possession football with guile and finesse if we're to beat the minnows, because at the moment we're just challenging them to a big and quick contest with no guarantees that the winner will take the points.

We can stop a team controlling a game, but that's not the same as learning to control a game ourselves.

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Something isn't right in our team and just isn't clicking, and it hasn't really done so since the beginning of the year, and MON has to find the solution. We look solid in may ways and work hard off the ball but where is the football? We seem to expend all our energy on defending these days and then when we get the ball don't know what to do with it. In a lot of the games i have watched recently our movement off the ball when we have possession has been really poor, not enough players moving into space and offering themselves for the ball. It almost seems that when we get the ball players think that they can take a rest for a bit. I think it's mostly tactical decisions by MON that has us playing this way and i think he really needs to assess the way our midfield and attack are set up. I've not been one always advocating the 4-5-1, it certainly doesn't mask all of our faults, but at least we played some good football when we played that way. Definately a solution for the short term, as for the long term solution, i'm not sure MON has it.

I think you make some very salient points there smokingzen. Last night's performance was incredibly frustrating but not altogether unexpected. Arsenal win game after game in a stylish and attractive manner because they have fostered a way of playing that revolves around passing and moving at pace that enables them to create plenty of space and thus chances. In contrast our gameplan seems to depend very much on what the opposition decide to do. Even in the case where our opponents are considerably worse than us, as was the case last night in the first half at least, we cannot take advantage. West Ham gave one of the most abject performances I have seen from any team this season in the first 45 minutes as they sliced clearances over their own crossbar; misplaced passes into touch; gave us the ball under no pressure, yet we were unable to profit through our own lack of imagination when on the ball. We seemed to spend the whole half in their half of the pitch, yet certain players on our side barely touched the ball. It was, if you like, domination by default.

Even our so called strength at set plays was proving wholly unproductive. I lost count of the amount of corners we had. Ashley Young seems to have developed a new way of taking them. Rather than whip them in with pace as was his previous preference he has started to loop them over to the far post. Far less effective if you ask me, yet he persisted.

So what are the answers? Yes we need a creative midfielder and yes we need a proper striker to replace Messrs Sidwell and Heskey, but that's not the complete solution. It's the philosophy of how we are encouraged to play that is wrong for me. We need to focus far more on ball retention throughout the side. Until we do that we will continue to struggle to control games even against the lowliest of sides.

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Albrighton is nowhere near as good as people seem to think he is.

His chance will come, tonight probably wasn't the right time to throw him into a Premier League game.

Sorry but I disagree. Instead we try and shoe-horn Heskey into the team. Albrighton has been nothing short of a match-winner in every first team match I've seen him in. He nearly won the Peace Cup on his own. He has genuine quality and he seems to have the head to handle first team opportunities - and that's an intangible quality you can only gauge once he's playing in the first team. With Milner out and us playing 2nd from bottom this was exactly the right stage for him. He has sat on the bench long enough chomping at the bit.

It's clear now that O'Neill is absolutely petrified to make changes to his teams to the extent that any enforced changes are made using trusted senior players in unfamiliar positions. It is infuriating and suggests he might not have what it takes to truly to get to the top. The fact he holds pathetic grudges too reflects badly on him. I'm really angry with tonight's result main because it was avoidable if we'd picked a proper team with balance and personnel in their rightful positions rather than patched it together unnecessarily.

seconded BOF :)

I too will Join Bri's club.

another night of shame for MON. There have been too many recently:

1. Please pick the right players

2. Please play them in their correct positions

3. Please don't hold petty grudges

4. Please have the balls to drop senior players

5. Please give the younger players chomping at the bit a chance

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8 of our 11 league games this season have been against the bottom half. In those 8 games we have 11pts. Just over 1pt per game. The other 3 games against the top half have yielded 7pts which is over 2pts per game. Why can we not beat the shit? It's really annoying.

I think it's our old friend style.

We play a physical pressing game with pace and we play the percentages; big man to aim at, quick man over the top and get it down the wings.

That's a strategy that means you can win or lose any game, because to some extent it removes the importance of being able to play the ball around or keep possession. It means that every time we play one of the big four we've got a real chance to win, because we turn the game into a contest on our terms and on our terms we're a reasonable match for anyone.

Unfortunately on our terms anyone is a reasonable match for us.

When you turn football matches into athletic contests you even the playing field but you even it up both ways and create a situation where you've a good chance of beating Chelsea and a reasonable chance of losing to QPR.

We need to learn to play slow possession football with guile and finesse if we're to beat the minnows, because at the moment we're just challenging them to a big and quick contest with no guarantees that the winner will take the points.

We can stop a team controlling a game, but that's not the same as learning to control a game ourselves.

a very astute analysis Scott, which i agree with fully. I think the this approach can work more often though against the "minnows", especially if he picks the right players, in the right positions ...

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8 of our 11 league games this season have been against the bottom half. In those 8 games we have 11pts. Just over 1pt per game. The other 3 games against the top half have yielded 7pts which is over 2pts per game. Why can we not beat the shit? It's really annoying.

I think it's our old friend style.

We play a physical pressing game with pace and we play the percentages; big man to aim at, quick man over the top and get it down the wings.

That's a strategy that means you can win or lose any game, because to some extent it removes the importance of being able to play the ball around or keep possession. It means that every time we play one of the big four we've got a real chance to win, because we turn the game into a contest on our terms and on our terms we're a reasonable match for anyone.

Unfortunately on our terms anyone is a reasonable match for us.

When you turn football matches into athletic contests you even the playing field but you even it up both ways and create a situation where you've a good chance of beating Chelsea and a reasonable chance of losing to QPR.

We need to learn to play slow possession football with guile and finesse if we're to beat the minnows, because at the moment we're just challenging them to a big and quick contest with no guarantees that the winner will take the points.

We can stop a team controlling a game, but that's not the same as learning to control a game ourselves.

That's probably the best post I've ever read on VT.

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my reaction is im pissed off and even more pissed off that i come on here and see a bunch of overreactions from some people who probably watched the game on teletext.

first half we were in control played some nice stuff at times but i think the ref cost us that game, beye clearly got the ball for there penalty and if we go in at half time 0-0 i believe it would of been a different game. 2nd half we started to look jaded and didnt help that we go down to ten men for the 2nd time in 2 games due to a stupid referees decision.

Anyway im not on here to slag off the players or the manager like some peoples opinions that change like the weather. Lets just roll on saturday and hopefully get a win against bolton.

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Heskey threw a tantrum and threatened to leave if he didn't start playing. Is it my imagination or has he played just about every game since?

Its not and people say MON hasn't got his favourites? :lol:

Tbh i'm not surprised we didnt win, a chance to go fourth and we bottle it AGAIN!

West Am are a good side the position their in does not reflect how they are playing, we shouldn't just assume we will win games like this.

The problem is creating goals, we're still struggling and it needs to be sorted out or we're either going to draw or lose.

Drawing 3 games is all well and good oooo we're un beaten, how about if we won 2 of them and lost the other still better off.

MON Carew and Heskey are doing JACK SHIT!

Did the Fonze dare to say something to MON, like NRC or did he make his tea wrong or something because where is he?

He cannot do any worse than them two lumps!

The thing is you'll have to play passing football rather than long ball thats the problem!

Sort it out please MON, we're improving defensively but doing nothing up front!

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