General Chat

[chrisp65]

53 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Fair enough but answer me this if you were approached or saw 7 or 8 people on the streets which ones would you give money to if any at all. If you say all eight I'd say your lying. 

None of us can say for certain which are not genuine or not. You have to go on instinct rightly or wrongly and that's how I am. If I don't think a persons genuine I won't give. In this instance I didn't think he was like the one who was sitting out in the cold with just a few possessions and a ripped sleeping bag. 

I've already said this twice, I would not hand cash to a beggar on the street. No good can come of it. That's the advice from Shelter and from Big Issue.

If you want to buy a cup of tea and hand that over, that's fine. If you want to 'help' donate to a charity.

Don't hand cash to a beggar. You (or me) are not equipped to understand what's most needed by that individual.

[Demitri_C]

Just now, chrisp65 said:

I've already said this twice, I would not hand cash to a beggar on the street. No good can come of it. That's the advice from Shelter and from Big Issue.

If you want to buy a cup of tea and hand that over, that's fine. If you want to 'help' donate to a charity.

Don't hand cash to a beggar. You (or me) are not equipped to understand what's most needed by that individual.

I actually agree with that. When I was in Riga we found. A youngster begger (looked about 9-11) who wanted money. I was with my cousin and my cousin aske dhim what he wanted the money for and he said food. So we went to a mcDonald's and got him a big mac meal instead. 

I much prefer this approach. 

[lapal_fan]

17 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

What does politics have to do with this? I couldn't care less about the Conservative party. Its a life choice smoking no one forces anyone to smoke. But that's  a completely different subject. 

It has everything to do with politics, unfortunately. 

There is a pot big enough to supply everyone with an opportunity to be given a decent fist at life, but to maintain government (thus power over the country and the people in it), the Conservative party have (historically) given people who earn enough money to live very comfortable lifestyles breaks in their taxes, so they can afford even better lifestyles at the expense of filtering that money down to the poor (or homeless).  There are a number of reasons for this, but it's essentially so the people who potentially benefit keep voting for the Conservatives.  

So when at the next election, the Conservatives, as part of their electoral campaign say "We will raise the tax free allowance from £8,000 - to £10,000, giving people an extra £2000 per year tax free!" - just remember that that money has to come from somewhere, and doesn't go to other places.  All the people who are most likely to vote, are going to be tempted by that extra £2000 a year (hell, I have been!), but can you imagine if they still had that £2000, from everyone and put in place the effort to make sure the very poorest people can get access to that money?  

Your post is very naive and it's that naivety which is a great little breeding ground for votes. 

I mean, Labour are hardly a great choice at the moment, but at least historically they do manage to filter some of the money down to the poor, but then we come full circle and the newspapers are full of "BENEFIT SCROUNGERS ARE TAKING YOUR(!) MONEY!!!!!) - Like we saw in 2010 when apparently the country was stone cold broke, our national debt was spiraling through the roof and Dave Cameron came in and saved us all.  

**** me, why do I know so much about politics when I'm not even arsed about it.. 

Edited February 11, 2019 by lapal_fan

[bickster]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

if you were approached or saw 7 or 8 people on the streets which ones would you give money to

None of them. I'll buy them a cup of tea or a burger or whatever, might even give them a ciggie but giving them money doesn't help them. Financially supporting homeless charities is where your spare cash should go

[Demitri_C]

9 minutes ago, bickster said:

None of them. I'll buy them a cup of tea or a burger or whatever, might even give them a ciggie but giving them money doesn't help them. Financially supporting homeless charities is where your spare cash should go

I agree with that although I like to do research on charities before donating to them as some really give the good ones a bad name as the money is not suppose to go where it should. 

[Demitri_C]

15 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

It has everything to do with politics, unfortunately. 

There is a pot big enough to supply everyone with an opportunity to be given a decent fist at life, but to maintain government (thus power over the country and the people in it), the Conservative party have (historically) given people who earn enough money to live very comfortable lifestyles breaks in their taxes, so they can afford even better lifestyles at the expense of filtering that money down to the poor (or homeless).  There are a number of reasons for this, but it's essentially so the people who potentially benefit keep voting for the Conservatives.  

So when at the next election, the Conservatives, as part of their electoral campaign say "We will raise the tax free allowance from £8,000 - to £10,000, giving people an extra £2000 per year tax free!" - just remember that that money has to come from somewhere, and doesn't go to other places.  All the people who are most likely to vote, are going to be tempted by that extra £2000 a year (hell, I have been!), but can you imagine if they still had that £2000, from everyone and put in place the effort to make sure the very poorest people can get access to that money?  

Your post is very naive and it's that naivety which is a great little breeding ground for votes. 

I mean, Labour are hardly a great choice at the moment, but at least historically they do manage to filter some of the money down to the poor, but then we come full circle and the newspapers are full of "BENEFIT SCROUNGERS ARE TAKING YOUR(!) MONEY!!!!!) - Like we saw in 2010 when apparently the country was stone cold broke, our national debt was spiraling through the roof and Dave Cameron came in and saved us all.  

**** me, why do I know so much about politics when I'm not even arsed about it.. 

You are arsed about it hence the post ! All I will say is that if Labour Party were doing so well they would still be in power so clearly they were failing and have lost the last few elections. So they have no one but themselves to blame. 

If you read my posts I have stated I am not voting Conservative in the next election. 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Demitri_C

[Wainy316]

31 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

So when at the next election, the Conservatives, as part of their electoral campaign say "We will raise the tax free allowance from £8,000 - to £10,000, giving people an extra £2000 per year tax free!" - just remember that that money has to come from somewhere, and doesn't go to other places.  All the people who are most likely to vote, are going to be tempted by that extra £2000 a year (hell, I have been!), but can you imagine if they still had that £2000, from everyone and put in place the effort to make sure the very poorest people can get access to that money?  

This is all a con anyway, the money is made up elsewhere.  First thing they did was raise VAT from 17.5% to 20%.  Then they keep cutting council budgets so the councils are left with no choice but to raise council tax.

Then they let energy companies etc run riot.  Since they proposed the cap last year, prices have risen three times!

Edited February 11, 2019 by Wainy316

[lapal_fan]

2 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

This is all a con anyway, the money is made up elsewhere.  First thing they did was raise VAT from 17.5% to 20%.  Then they keep cutting council budgets so the councils are left with no choice but to raise council.

Then they let energy companies etc run riot.  Since they proposed the cap last year, prices have risen three times!

Of course it's a con, most of the campaign promises are **** stupidly unrealistic.  Another country, but still stand is "We'll build a wall and make them pay"  

My own problem now, but indicative of the issue is I've got Budleia coming through my garage roof, my house backs onto an old quarry face, and the wall is about 15ft high, with dense wood for about 4m before it's a school fence.  I called the council about 40 times last summer to come and chop the trees, like they had a couple of years before I moved into the property, I was strung along with "we'll get the team on it, but they are busy in the summer" until November last year when they turned round and said "the trees aren't anything to do with us".. Meanwhile my insurance company have said "don't fix the whole, you'll then be admitting liability and it weakens your case".. so I've got the school who don't own the trees, the council won't cut them because they say that 4m strip of land is unacquired (and said "do you want it?  ) and I have a garage with a hole in the roof which water has gone it and wrecked most of everything in there (not loads, but enough for me to moan about).. 

YAY COUNCILS!  

[coda]

46 minutes ago, bickster said:

None of them. I'll buy them a cup of tea or a burger or whatever,

Please change these options to a soy latte and vegan burger.

[bickster]

Just now, coda said:

Please change these options to a soy latte and vegan burger.

Even homeless people have standards, I don't want to wear that shit

[tonyh29]

15 hours ago, Shropshire Lad said:

So do people give loose change to homeless people they see?

I have done, although can’t remember the last time I did. Not sure what makes me give change on occasion and not another. Maybe if it’s a miserable day or something like that I may be more likely to do so.

I’ll generally give to a big issue seller, the one in my local village and if I’m in a town centre and the seller there is particularly cheerful I’ll give them a quid. I don’t take the magazine though.

not so much homeless but tbh I'm more inclined to give to direct interaction , charity collectors / people who approach you / people doing sponsored bike rides , hikes etc  ( but not growing a moustache or giving up beer , they can jog on)   rather than give to someone who is sitting in a doorway  with a hand written note on a piece of cardboard,   if I'm honest

I think what stuck in my mind with beggars was I went into Reading town centre around Christmas  and every 30 foot or so was a beggar  ,  predominately dressed in standard Romanian beggar attire   ...  they were beggars who people were clearly cheesed off with it ..which means any genuine beggars in Reading are screwed ..and I think that's probably a similar situation  elsewhere as well  ?  rightly or wrongly the perception is that most beggars aren't genuine  ... the idea of a central collection would at least assure you that the money is reaching genuine people ( hopefully)

Few months back some scully walked up to me and said he need 3 quid for a train fare as he'd lost his  phone and wallet   .. I gave him the £3  and saw him wander off into  KFC  a few moments later  ..hey ho , I did genuinely laugh to myself at his cheek   ..... but  I'm not fussed about the £3 and I'd give the next kid £3 as well as , who knows , one day it could be genuine  ..and one day it could be my son or daughter that genuinely has lost their phone / wallet and needs a couple of quid and someone will do the same for them ( though knowing my son he'd go to KFC and then walk home )

 

 

[Demitri_C]

I think what this debate about homelessness has demonstrated none of us know who is genuine or not and we all react differently to towards it. 

 

 

[choffer]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

I think what this debate about homelessness has demonstrated none of us know who is genuine or not and we all react differently to towards it. 

 

 

Oh, I dunno Dem.

I think what it's mostly proved (to me, at least) is that people make their own minds up about things but many don't seek to make that decision based on facts or expert advice.

[Wainy316]

I've seen a noticeable increase in homeless people in both Oxford and Reading lately.

[Demitri_C]

19 minutes ago, choffer said:

Oh, I dunno Dem.

I think what it's mostly proved (to me, at least) is that people make their own minds up about things but many don't seek to make that decision based on facts or expert advice.

What expert advice? How anyone be a expert on knowing if someone is genuine or not? 

[BOF]

3 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

You have missed the point completely 

No, you have miscommunicated the point entirely.  By you even mentioning the amount of clothing the man had on, you made an issue of it.  Learn how your words affect what you say.  Bicks was right to pull you up on it.

[choffer]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

What expert advice? How anyone be a expert on knowing if someone is genuine or not? 

Sorry - was more of a general point, rather than a specific comment on the genuine nature of a homeless.

Having just caught up on the last few pages, it seems that people too often want to make a decision (on anything or nothing in particular) based on their own opinions rather than any insight, experience or knowledge of the subject.

The whole - why don't they just get a job, how can you afford fags if you're a homeless, they're all junkies and frauds line of thinking just smacks to me of someone who is detached from the reality of having to live in that existence and has no desire to change their opinion or understand the problem. 

It's an issue in all walks of life, for all kinds of problems and has been since time immemorial. 

[Demitri_C]

18 minutes ago, BOF said:

No, you have miscommunicated the point entirely.  By you even mentioning the amount of clothing the man had on, you made an issue of it.  Learn how your words affect what you say.  Bicks was right to pull you up on it.

I disagree. It was communicated fine but anyway. 

[Demitri_C]

23 minutes ago, choffer said:

Sorry - was more of a general point, rather than a specific comment on the genuine nature of a homeless.

Having just caught up on the last few pages, it seems that people too often want to make a decision (on anything or nothing in particular) based on their own opinions rather than any insight, experience or knowledge of the subject.

The whole - why don't they just get a job, how can you afford fags if you're a homeless, they're all junkies and frauds line of thinking just smacks to me of someone who is detached from the reality of having to live in that existence and has no desire to change their opinion or understand the problem. 

It's an issue in all walks of life, for all kinds of problems and has been since time immemorial. 

Yeah a lot of that makes sense. None of us know what we deem as genuine or not. None of us know unless we are the individual ourselves. 

Im strongly against smoking that's probably why my perception is like this. I've hated it from a young age since my grandad was sick and got bad lung cancer before he died. It's obviously linked to my perception when I see a homeless person smoking a si think I'd rather give to someone who will spend the money on food as opposed to likely fags. 

[mrbojangles]

i on the odd occasion have handed money over to someone on the streets but not for a long time. Being honest, i don't buy them tea or food or anything. I think the more you see the the more desensitised you become to it. It has now become so normal to be asked and normal to respond sorry I don't have any that i don't even think about it anymore. Whether someone smokes or drinks has no bearing on the situation for me, if they are wearing a Rolex that is a different kettle of fish.

The only time I get annoyed is if I am with my lad, he is 5 and frankly I think its a bit bad to be stopping people with kids. I guess it works though as probably tugs at the heartstrings