AvfcRigo82 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, snowychap said: So, in the first six links you've provided there isn't a great deal of data to support your original claim. Cool. Out of interest, why is it bothering you so much? I have quoted the figure on research I had done over the months. I cannot find/post everything I have seen and read. But reading and watching what I did, it,'s not mathmatically impossible to work out that percentage is not too far off. I'm sure you'll do your best to prove otherwise though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 51 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Did I mentuon in my post 'This is a definate UK figure'. I said around 30%. Which is what I quoted. Your claim was ' most of the folk begging and pleading homelessness that you mention, around 30% are geuine cases'. As I've quoted, you said 'around'. I have not said anything about any sort of precise figure but I'm certainly looking for data that supports the claim that 'most of the folk begging and pleading homelessness that you mention, around 30% are geuine cases' Quote Now you're either interested in the topic as a whole or just nit picking my posts, which is it? I'm interested in the topic as you ought to have gathered by my response to @Shropshire Lad's post and the article quoted within it, i.e. it was, I hope a considered and thoughtful, though questioning, response to the article and the data within. 55 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: I suggest you watch that and read the articles/evidence you asked for. Cheers As per my previous post, I've read the first half dozen of articles/web pages you've linked. Unsurprisingly, it's going to take more than a short time to go through them all especiallly as you haven't indicated where in this haystack your needle of supporting evidence is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 10, 2019 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2019 Everyone loves a bit of outrage Journalist fancies an easy day, Finds a genuine rough sleeper and buys him a cup of coffee and gives him a fiver, then asks him to point out an imposter beggar out. Stalks the imposter beggar and waits until he drives away in his Merc. Takes photos, he can get the registered keeper of the Merc off the DVLA App retires to the cafe, writes his story over a latte and bags himself the front page And the easily outraged believe most of the beggars aren't homeless... again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Cool. Out of interest, why is it bothering you so much? I have quoted the figure on research I had done over the months. I cannot find/post everything I have seen and read. But reading and watching what I did, it,'s not mathmatically impossible to work out that percentage is not too far off. It pisses me off when people just throw random stuff out as 'facts' or 'findings' without sufficient robust data to back it up. You haven't 'quoted a figure', have you? If you have quoted it, where is it from? You haven't given a source for this figure you're now claiming to have quoted other than some nebulous 'research'. You've read some articles in a few newspapers and on the BBC and have watched a documentary. That appears to be all. You haven't gathered data from which to draw a proper inference. You haven't used data to 'mathematically work out' a percentagem have you? If you have then you'd be able to show us this data and your workings. Quote I'm sure you'll do your best to prove otherwise though. It's not up to me to 'prove otherwise'. It's up to you to substantiate your claim. I considered myself to be rather generous in taking my time to work through all of the seemingly random links you provided in order to see if there was the evidence to support this original claim. That isn't how it ought to be but I was hoping to find something that you haven't yet been able to clearly provide. Like I said above, I've been through some of it. I'll take my time going through the rest as I fear that there isn't any such evidence to be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, bickster said: Everyone loves a bit of outrage Journalist fancies an easy day, Finds a genuine rough sleeper and buys him a cup of coffee and gives him a fiver, then asks him to point out an imposter beggar out. Stalks the imposter beggar and waits until he drives away in his Merc. Takes photos, he can get the registered keeper of the Merc off the DVLA App retires to the cafe, writes his story over a latte and bags himself the front page And the easily outraged believe most of the beggars aren't homeless... again Its a step up form the usual article nowadays which is generally a copy and paste of some z-list celebs twitter or instagram page. What happened to quality journalism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted February 10, 2019 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted February 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Xela said: Its a step up form the usual article nowadays which is generally a copy and paste of some z-list celebs twitter or instagram page. What happened to quality journalism? Oh, I completely agree. Quality journalists are rarer than pretend beggars these days 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted February 10, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) So do people give loose change to homeless people they see? I have done, although can’t remember the last time I did. Not sure what makes me give change on occasion and not another. Maybe if it’s a miserable day or something like that I may be more likely to do so. I’ll generally give to a big issue seller, the one in my local village and if I’m in a town centre and the seller there is particularly cheerful I’ll give them a quid. I don’t take the magazine though. Edited February 10, 2019 by Shropshire Lad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, snowychap said: It pisses me off when people just throw random stuff out as 'facts' or 'findings' without sufficient robust data to back it up. You haven't 'quoted a figure', have you? If you have quoted it, where is it from? You haven't given a source for this figure you're now claiming to have quoted other than some nebulous 'research'. You've read some articles in a few newspapers and on the BBC and have watched a documentary. That appears to be all. You haven't gathered data from which to draw a proper inference. You haven't used data to 'mathematically work out' a percentagem have you? If you have then you'd be able to show us this data and your workings. It's not up to me to 'prove otherwise'. It's up to you to substantiate your claim. I considered myself to be rather generous in taking my time to work through all of the seemingly random links you provided in order to see if there was the evidence to support this original claim. That isn't how it ought to be but I was hoping to find something that you haven't yet been able to clearly provide. Like I said above, I've been through some of it. I'll take my time going through the rest as I fear that there isn't any such evidence to be found. Jesus christ lighten up. I was going by what I had read and researched over months, even talking to some folk at Charities about some of the issues. From what I gathered of my findings I put it down to around 30% what I had 'viewed' to be the case that was genuine compared to the grand scheme. Sorry it has caused you offence or to feel the way it has, I didn't realise you felt so strongly. You are not the only person going through shit either pal! Again, expecting me to show you everything that I spent months going over at the click of a finger was not going to happen. You read it all in your own timr, watch the bbc thing when you can and do more on the subject and see where you're at. Had I said.. official figures show that 30% blah blah blah then I would see your point. I came to it that around 30% of 100% in some cases based on what I had read and researched. Again, I didn't realise my post would have such an effect on you like it has. And fwiw. Il apologise to anyone else now that may also feel aggrevied about my post! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted February 10, 2019 Administrator Share Posted February 10, 2019 26 minutes ago, Xela said: What happened to quality journalism? No one wants to pay for it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: Jesus christ lighten up. I was going by what I had read and researched over months, even talking to some folk at Charities about some of the issues. From what I gathered of my findings I put it down to around 30% what I had 'viewed' to be the case that was genuine compared to the grand scheme. Sorry it has caused you offence or to feel the way it has, I didn't realise you felt so strongly. You are not the only person going through shit either pal! Again, expecting me to show you everything that I spent months going over at the click of a finger was not going to happen. You read it all in your own timr, watch the bbc thing when you can and do more on the subject and see where you're at. Had I said.. official figures show that 30% blah blah blah then I would see your point. I came to it that around 30% of 100% in some cases based on what I had read and researched. Again, I didn't realise my post would have such an effect on you like it has. And fwiw. Il apologise to anyone else now that may also feel aggrevied about my post! When I asked, " Do you have any evidence to support this?" You could just have answered, "No." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 50 minutes ago, Xela said: What happened to quality journalism? I don't think it exists anymore, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 11 hours ago, Shropshire Lad said: So do people give loose change to homeless people they see? I have done, although can’t remember the last time I did. Not sure what makes me give change on occasion and not another. Maybe if it’s a miserable day or something like that I may be more likely to do so. I’ll generally give to a big issue seller, the one in my local village and if I’m in a town centre and the seller there is particularly cheerful I’ll give them a quid. I don’t take the magazine though. I had a guy come up to me when I was leaving Birmingham new street in the station fully dressed and walking around cone up to me and say “Any change for a hot tea” it’s difficult to find which are genuine or not but in this instance I didn’t think he was considering he smelt like fags and had no items with such as sleeping bag etc. i do feel bad when I say no though but I just think if you want a tea then don’t waste your money in fags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I had a guy come up to me when I was leaving Birmingham new street in the station fully dressed and walking around cone up to me and say “Any change for a hot tea” it’s difficult to find which are genuine or not but in this instance I didn’t think he was considering he smelt like fags and had no items with such as sleeping bag etc. i do feel bad when I say no though but I just think if you want a tea then don’t waste your money in fags. I live in a very middle class town and there seemed to be about half a dozen rough sleepers in town begging for the month of December that disappear for the rest of the year. It's only happened the last couple of years but the cynic in me can't help but wonder. There was one who had his sleeping bag outside Pret a Manger who I believe help out homeless people with leftover food and offer them some work, which is good obviously, but a girl who I assumed was his girlfriend would turn up and watch stuff on her phone with him. It just didn't make sense to me but then it's often more complicated than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 11, 2019 Moderator Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: I had a guy come up to me when I was leaving Birmingham new street in the station fully dressed and walking around cone up to me and say “Any change for a hot tea” it’s difficult to find which are genuine or not but in this instance I didn’t think he was considering he smelt like fags and had no items with such as sleeping bag etc. i do feel bad when I say no though but I just think if you want a tea then don’t waste your money in fags. Fully dressed? whatever next, the outrage Semi-naked or you ain't desperate? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted February 11, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 11, 2019 Very often people will have sufficient money for a can of cider or a pack of fags, but not quite enough for a deposit on a flat. Y'know what, if I had a fiver and nowhere to live, yeah I'd save it because in another 17 years that could be life changing. I'd have a big bag of money I carried around with me waiting for it to get to three grand. Ordinarily, you'd stash it safely in a bank, but obviously what with having no address the banks are a bit funny about me opening an account with a fiver. So I can carry my life savings with me on the street at night. Or I can buy a can or some fags and distract myself for half an hour. I would not have given the guy money for a cup of tea. But I also wouldn't try to assess his situation by what he wore or what he smells like. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 17 minutes ago, bickster said: Fully dressed? whatever next, the outrage Semi-naked or you ain't desperate? You have missed the point completely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Very often people will have sufficient money for a can of cider or a pack of fags, but not quite enough for a deposit on a flat. Y'know what, if I had a fiver and nowhere to live, yeah I'd save it because in another 17 years that could be life changing. I'd have a big bag of money I carried around with me waiting for it to get to three grand. Ordinarily, you'd stash it safely in a bank, but obviously what with having no address the banks are a bit funny about me opening an account with a fiver. So I can carry my life savings with me on the street at night. Or I can buy a can or some fags and distract myself for half an hour. I would not have given the guy money for a cup of tea. But I also wouldn't try to assess his situation by what he wore or what he smells like. Fair enough but answer me this if you were approached or saw 7 or 8 people on the streets which ones would you give money to if any at all. If you say all eight I'd say your lying. None of us can say for certain which are not genuine or not. You have to go on instinct rightly or wrongly and that's how I am. If I don't think a persons genuine I won't give. In this instance I didn't think he was like the one who was sitting out in the cold with just a few possessions and a ripped sleeping bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Lotta white knights around here I don't give anyone money if I am approached walking on the street. I have done, but I'll be honest and say 9 times out of 10 I just say "sorry, I haven't got any on me", which is usually true to be fair When I was at Wolves Uni, I was always surprised by how many homeless people there were around the city center, there were loads for the small size. I spoke to a guy once because I did give him a pound or something, I was waiting for a train so he just plonked himself by me and told me his story, totally unprompted. I saw a guy in a beautiful suit on a night out in London, with a sleeping bag, asleep in a doorway, that was an eye-opener on just how easy it is to slip into the cracks - especially if you have a job in London, but can't afford rent or something.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted February 11, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted February 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: I had a guy come up to me when I was leaving Birmingham new street in the station fully dressed and walking around cone up to me and say “Any change for a hot tea” it’s difficult to find which are genuine or not but in this instance I didn’t think he was considering he smelt like fags and had no items with such as sleeping bag etc. i do feel bad when I say no though but I just think if you want a tea then don’t waste your money in fags. We're back to that old Tory favourite 'the undeserving poor', this time the indicator being smoking. I don't smoke, but I do know how difficult most people find it to quit. That's comfortably-off middle class people. Imagine how tough it is when you're an addict (whether it's heroin or tobacco) and living on the street (and probably have mental health issues to boot). You don't just choose not to smoke. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, mjmooney said: We're back to that old Tory favourite 'the undeserving poor', this time the indicator being smoking. I don't smoke, but I do know how difficult most people find it to quit. That's comfortably-off middle class people. Imagine how tough it is when you're an addict (whether it's heroin or tobacco) and living on the street (and probably have mental health issues to boot). You don't just choose not to smoke. What does politics have to do with this? I couldn't care less about the Conservative party. Its a life choice smoking no one forces anyone to smoke. But that's a completely different subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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