JMilnereatsnails Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 In 100 years time, people will talk about the way Liverpool dominated the 80's and the way Man Utd dominated the 90's and 00's in just the same fashion that we now glorify the fact that Villa dominated a century ago. Different clubs dominate during certain era's dependant on certain factors at the time. Not sure when Tottenham dominated anything though. I guess you could say that they have dominated mid-table mediocrity forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonSpur Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 So what if the league expands and another 50 teams are introduced, or the European super league comes into fruition? Will the days of the premier league become irrelevant and Manchester United's dominance of the last two decades be discounted? Another 50 teams are never going to be introduced and a European super league is very unlikely to happen. Besides, you are talking about future 'ifs', whereas I've referred to actual 19th century reality compared to later on. If any of your 'ifs' ever occur, then no doubt the discussion could be resumed at that time. It doesn't mean that your 19th century trophies count for nothing. But it does mean their value, as benchmarks of club success compared to the vast majority of other clubs (who weren't even able to compete for those trophies), is very considerably reduced. I'm prepared to admit the huge credit to Villa for winning the European Cup, but a degree of reciprocal honesty would be apprecated in VTers admitting the truth of what I say above about your 19th century trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I think life would be much easier if we all just learned to accept that Tottingham Hotspuds are the bestest team in the whole wide world ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Oh that must be why they are taking the national football museum away from Preston then. It was there because they won the first ever league title, but obviously that title has reduced value now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 By rights that museum should go to the rightful home of football at shite hart lane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonSpur Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Glaston you are using subjective criteria to manipulate the argument in your favour. ... It's not subjective criteria, it's objective criteria because it's objective fact concerning the small number of clubs in the league structure in the 19th century. .... You can not dismiss achievements based on when they happened. ... I don't dismiss them. I merely put them in their true context, a context which considerably reduces - but doesn't completely dismiss - their objective value as a benchmark of club success in relation to many other clubs. It is equally valid for us to say that Villa managed to achieve at a time when all clubs including Villa were considerably less developed ... There was no good reason or divine right for us to do so other than that we were the powerhouse at the time because we succeeded in doing it on the pitch. ... No good reason besides your being a powerhouse? Most of the other clubs in existence today were not even in the competitions concerned during the 19th century - that strikes me as an excellent reason as to why they couldn't have won the trophies concerned instead of Villa. ... Just as you did in 61 and as we did in 81 & 82. No, by that time the full league stucture had been in place for a long time and no clubs were excluded from being able to compete in it In the 19th century Villa were a big fish in a very small pond. In the 60s and 80s the pond was huge, just as it is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 10, 2010 VT Supporter Share Posted February 10, 2010 Absolute drivel. Have you got a head like a **** orange by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 It's not Villa's fault all the Southern fairy clubs refused to turn professional. It's not like the clubs didn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 And spurs fans wonder why they are hated, i know a few of them and they are all as stupid as Glaston and all think they are a massive massive team. Since the premiership began they have been nothing but a midtable team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiganvillain Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 And spurs fans wonder why they are hated, i know a few of them and they are all stupid and all think they are a massive massive team. Since the world began they have been nothing Sorry Big John 10, but this had to be edited for "Objective" accuracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 It's not Villa's fault all the Southern fairy clubs refused to turn professional. It's not like the clubs didn't exist. Exactly, the clubs were there, they were just non league clubs at the time. M.K Dons were founded in 2004, their fans don't go around claiming the trophies won before 2004 shouldn't be counted when comparing clubs because they were not around to compete for them before then. The whole argument is completely stupid and could only have been thought up by a Spurs fan. And they wonder why we think they are arrogant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 And spurs fans wonder why they are hated, i know a few of them and they are all stupid and all think they are a massive massive team. Since the world began they have been nothing Sorry Big John 10, but this had to be edited for "Objective" accuracy That's a big improvement on my post, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonSpur Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 .. the clubs were there, they were just non league clubs at the time. .. I see. It's "just" that the vast majority of current clubs were non-league clubs at the time. So the fact that this meant they weren't able to compete for all these 19th century trophies is entirely irrelevant to Villa's winning them is it? Pull the other one. M.K Dons were founded in 2004... .. The MK Dons are essentially Wimbledon FC re-named and re-located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 The key point here is have Spurs won the league on colour tv? :winkold: In fairness to Glaston, he has a point on Lennon. Much improved over the last 18 months and Spurs miss him badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 *coughlongballteamcough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 10, 2010 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2010 So the fact that this meant they weren't able to compete for all these 19th century trophies is entirely irrelevant to Villa's winning them is it? Pull the other one. You won the FA cup as a non-league side in 1901. So don't talk crap. You were allowed to compete but instead you are now choosing to belittle our achievements because your club couldn't be arsed to get itself organised. You stay classy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I tend to stay clear of the Glaston bashing, but this latest argument beggars belief, it really does. I would only be repeating what others have said if I were to say what I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 .. the clubs were there, they were just non league clubs at the time. .. I see. It's "just" that the vast majority of current clubs were non-league clubs at the time. So the fact that this meant they weren't able to compete for all these 19th century trophies is entirely irrelevant to Villa's winning them is it? Pull the other one. Even if your absurd argument was convincing, I wouldn't trade our European Cup win for your entire history. Or does your arbitrary timescale during which trophies actually count exclude that, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlastonSpur Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 ... You won the FA cup as a non-league side in 1901. So don't talk crap. You were allowed to compete ... Yes we did win the FA Cup in 1901, and remain the only non-league club ever to have done so. But we were discussing the 19th century, not the 20th. And we were discussing the 4 "league titles" that Villa won in that era (league titles that the vast majority of today's clubs were not able to compete for), not to mention the three 19th century FA Cup trophies won by Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 All together now.. Have you won the European Cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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