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Spurs - Arry's gone but we still dislike them...


Jondaken

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... Glaston said he is slow, I came back with an argument as to why Jimmy IS NOT slow.

I didn't say he was slow. I said he wasn't quick enough (and lacked sufficient abilty to beat players) to make it as an especially effective winger.

His being 100m schools champion means little in this respect. Speed in terms of being a winger is all about acceleration over much shorter distances, hitting top speed quickly, reaction time, anticipation and very often close ball control at top speed.

Besides, I doubt that Lennon even entered the schools 100m championships.

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Young - Milner - Petrov - Downing

Downing - Milner - Petrov - Young

Milner - Downing - Petrov - Young

Milner - Young - Petrov - Downing

Young - Downing - Petrov - Milner

Downing - Milner - Petrov - Agbonlahor (Young upfront)

Just a few of the different positions our players take up during the game!

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Joey, you forget that Milner has been playing central midfield for less than half a season and yet is still joint 3rd with Lennon and Giggs on assists ( 8 ) as well as chipping in with 8 goals in all competitions this season.

He didnt play well last Saturday ( only the defence did ) but I do think when he learns the role better, he will turn into a very good allround central midfield player.

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... Glaston said he is slow, I came back with an argument as to why Jimmy IS NOT slow.

I didn't say he was slow. I said he wasn't quick enough (and lacked sufficient abilty to beat players) to make it as an especially effective winger.

His being 100m schools champion means little in this respect. Speed in terms of being a winger is all about acceleration over much shorter distances, hitting top speed quickly, reaction time, anticipation and very often close ball control at top speed.

Besides, I doubt that Lennon even entered the schools 100m championships.

Actually Lennon was also his high school champion...

Milner is faster than you are prepared to admit.

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Don't think anyone has said he's slow but he's not exactly quick either.

Quicker than he is given credit for. I would say behind Young and Agbonlahor he must be one of the next quickest.

Over a longer distance perhaps but like I said when it comes to speed in a football match, I haven't seen exactly too many examples of pace from him. When he's one on one with a defender, he has rarely just gone past him for pace or even when he turns a defender, he doesn't really get away from them, Downing, Delfouneso, Reo-Coker, Delph, Albrighton are for me faster in match day situations.

Well Reo-Coker's a weird one actually, I've seen him sometimes been burnt for pace, then other times, ghost past players like they weren't even there with a burst of acceleration.

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Milner in the middle will be a very very very good player the more he gets into the role. I am happy with him wide or in the middle but the reason I like him in the middle a little more is that he seems to be able to spot other players runs and movement ahead quicker than anybody else and he also is very good at getting into the box AND at tracking back and working in front of the defence.

As a winger his delivery is improving rapidly, his movement off the wing is fantastic too and he is very good at leaving players on their arse. he also tracks back brilliantly from that position.

Oh and I don't think we play a conventional 442 so I cannot really argue about positions, our formation is based on movement. (its very unique imho) I would say only the back 4 have set positions.

From what you are saying here ,he sounds more suited to a Modric type role or even how Gerrard plays for Liverpool. Either an ACM, who defends out wide, but going forward has the license to cut in and make things happen, like Modric. Or an ACM who plays infront of 2 more conventional CM's like Gerrard for Liverpool. I really can't see Milner as a conventional CM player from what I've seen so far. His game seems to be more about trying to make things happen, rather than controlling the tempo of the match. I thought that was what you were really missing the other night. You desperately needed a Huddlestone type to take control in the middle, set the tempo, organise the team shape and get the ball to the Milner's, Young's and Downings. Petrov and Milner seemed totally ineefective against Huddlestone and Palacios. It was the same when we played you at Villa Park, when you had Petrov and Reo Coker in the middle. CM is the one area where seem to have total dominance over you.

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Remember his counter attack goal against Blackburn away? Watch that and say he's slow.

Young, Gabby and Lennon along with Walcott and players of that ilk are exceptionally fast thus they are used on the wing or up front, so they can stretch defences.

Lennon has been pants for ages then admitedly it looks like he decided to turn up this year, but he still is suspect to falling apart against decent defences who let him turn and run, because that is the only advantage he has over the defender. Stay a few yards behind him and let him turn and watch his game fall apart. In my opinion ;) Same goes for Young only Young has one of the best crosses in the league so he can get out of shit situations.

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Milner in the middle will be a very very very good player the more he gets into the role. I am happy with him wide or in the middle but the reason I like him in the middle a little more is that he seems to be able to spot other players runs and movement ahead quicker than anybody else and he also is very good at getting into the box AND at tracking back and working in front of the defence.

As a winger his delivery is improving rapidly, his movement off the wing is fantastic too and he is very good at leaving players on their arse. he also tracks back brilliantly from that position.

Oh and I don't think we play a conventional 442 so I cannot really argue about positions, our formation is based on movement. (its very unique imho) I would say only the back 4 have set positions.

From what you are saying here ,he sounds more suited to a Modric type role or even how Gerrard plays for Liverpool. Either an ACM, who defends out wide, but going forward has the license to cut in and make things happen, like Modric. Or an ACM who plays infront of 2 more conventional CM's like Gerrard for Liverpool. I really can't see Milner as a conventional CM player from what I've seen so far. His game seems to be more about trying to make things happen, rather than controlling the tempo of the match. I thought that was what you were really missing the other night. You desperately needed a Huddlestone type to take control in the middle, set the tempo, organise the team shape and get the ball to the Milner's, Young's and Downings. Petrov and Milner seemed totally ineefective against Huddlestone and Palacios. It was the same when we played you at Villa Park, when you had Petrov and Reo Coker in the middle. CM is the one area where seem to have total dominance over you.

It should be Petrov's job to set the tempo from deep, he doesn't do it enough, why I don't rate him as highly as other, need someone like Parker.

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Remember his counter attack goal against Blackburn away? Watch that and say he's slow.

Young, Gabby and Lennon along with Walcott and players of that ilk are exceptionally fast thus they are used on the wing or up front, so they can stretch defences.

Lennon has been pants for ages then admitedly it looks like he decided to turn up this year, but he still is suspect to falling apart against decent defences who let him turn and run, because that is the only advantage he has over the defender. Stay a few yards behind him and let him turn and watch his game fall apart. In my opinion ;) Same goes for Young only Young has one of the best crosses in the league so he can get out of shit situations.

I'd say thats pretty much my opinion too.

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Joey, you forget that Milner has been playing central midfield for less than half a season and yet is still joint 3rd with Lennon and Giggs on assists ( 8 ) as well as chipping in with 8 goals in all competitions this season.

He didnt play well last Saturday ( only the defence did ) but I do think when he learns the role better, he will turn into a very good allround central midfield player.

But I'd argue that he can get the goals and assists from playing wide. You don't seem to gain anything from having him in the middle that you'd not have with him in a wide postion. I suspect he actually gets more of his goals and assists when playing wide. Personally I think you have 3 quality wide players and thus have the strength in depth you need in those positons. But I'd still want MON to bring in 2 quality CMs in the summer.

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Remember his counter attack goal against Blackburn away? Watch that and say he's slow.

Young, Gabby and Lennon along with Walcott and players of that ilk are exceptionally fast thus they are used on the wing or up front, so they can stretch defences.

Lennon has been pants for ages then admitedly it looks like he decided to turn up this year, but he still is suspect to falling apart against decent defences who let him turn and run, because that is the only advantage he has over the defender. Stay a few yards behind him and let him turn and watch his game fall apart. In my opinion ;) Same goes for Young only Young has one of the best crosses in the league so he can get out of shit situations.

Noone's said he's slow FFS!

Also, yes over long distance, I've said, he probably is pretty quick because he's powerful, I'm talking about wing play, I don't think he's that quick in terms of getting the ball, running at a defender and flying past him, I've rarely if ever seen him do that to any defender.

Lennon also did pretty well against Evra in the times I've seen him who's a very good defender.

for me Milner is an attacking midfielder, can play in a central two midfield, great player, probably be better in more of a free role with two other central midfielders, but centrally is his position and his general ability matches that I believe.

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Milner in the middle will be a very very very good player the more he gets into the role. I am happy with him wide or in the middle but the reason I like him in the middle a little more is that he seems to be able to spot other players runs and movement ahead quicker than anybody else and he also is very good at getting into the box AND at tracking back and working in front of the defence.

As a winger his delivery is improving rapidly, his movement off the wing is fantastic too and he is very good at leaving players on their arse. he also tracks back brilliantly from that position.

Oh and I don't think we play a conventional 442 so I cannot really argue about positions, our formation is based on movement. (its very unique imho) I would say only the back 4 have set positions.

From what you are saying here ,he sounds more suited to a Modric type role or even how Gerrard plays for Liverpool. Either an ACM, who defends out wide, but going forward has the license to cut in and make things happen, like Modric. Or an ACM who plays infront of 2 more conventional CM's like Gerrard for Liverpool. I really can't see Milner as a conventional CM player from what I've seen so far. His game seems to be more about trying to make things happen, rather than controlling the tempo of the match. I thought that was what you were really missing the other night. You desperately needed a Huddlestone type to take control in the middle, set the tempo, organise the team shape and get the ball to the Milner's, Young's and Downings. Petrov and Milner seemed totally ineefective against Huddlestone and Palacios. It was the same when we played you at Villa Park, when you had Petrov and Reo Coker in the middle. CM is the one area where seem to have total dominance over you.

It should be Petrov's job to set the tempo from deep, he doesn't do it enough, why I don't rate him as highly as other, need someone like Parker.

I think Parker would be a great signing for you, but more as a ball winner who likes to drive forward. I think you need a quality, composed player in the middle to set the tempo, like you had in Barry. Parker is very gettable for you and I'd suggest someone like De Zeeuw at Ajax. I'd have gone for Pedro Mendes aswell, but he's gone to Sporting now.

A midfield of Young----De Zeeuw---Parker----Milner would be awesome and then you have Downing as an option aswell.

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Joey, you forget that Milner has been playing central midfield for less than half a season and yet is still joint 3rd with Lennon and Giggs on assists ( 8 ) as well as chipping in with 8 goals in all competitions this season.

He didnt play well last Saturday ( only the defence did ) but I do think when he learns the role better, he will turn into a very good allround central midfield player.

But I'd argue that he can get the goals and assists from playing wide. You don't seem to gain anything from having him in the middle that you'd not have with him in a wide postion. I suspect he actually gets more of his goals and assists when playing wide. Personally I think you have 3 quality wide players and thus have the strength in depth you need in those positons. But I'd still want MON to bring in 2 quality CMs in the summer.

Assists central midfield:

Sunderland.

Blackburn

Blackburn

Portsmouth

Hull City

Brighton

Goals Central midfield:

Sunderland

Blackburn

Blackburn

Portsmouth

Hull City.

So most of his goals/assists came centrally.

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Joey, you forget that Milner has been playing central midfield for less than half a season and yet is still joint 3rd with Lennon and Giggs on assists ( 8 ) as well as chipping in with 8 goals in all competitions this season.

He didnt play well last Saturday ( only the defence did ) but I do think when he learns the role better, he will turn into a very good allround central midfield player.

But I'd argue that he can get the goals and assists from playing wide. You don't seem to gain anything from having him in the middle that you'd not have with him in a wide postion. I suspect he actually gets more of his goals and assists when playing wide. Personally I think you have 3 quality wide players and thus have the strength in depth you need in those positons. But I'd still want MON to bring in 2 quality CMs in the summer.

Assists central midfield:

Sunderland.

Blackburn

Blackburn

Portsmouth

Hull City

Brighton

Goals Central midfield:

Sunderland

Blackburn

Blackburn

Portsmouth

Hull City.

So most of his goals/assists came centrally.

Yep, was just gonna post that.

I personally think he's better at picking a good pass through the middle than crossing from the wing. His shooting/finishing is decent too and he does get more oppurtunities centrally.

If we could get someone to dictate the play alongside him then that would be a tidy midfield, i'm not sure Petrov is that player.

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But aren't those stats biased as he's played more games outside the Prem League in CM? In terms of the Prem doesn't he have 6 assists and 2 goals from the right and 2 goals and 2 assists from CM? But regardless i'm not talking about goals scoring and creating productivity, but his overall suitability to the role. I think it's safe to say that be it from the righ or the centre he'll contribute in terms of goals and assists. At the moment I think he's the best man for the job in CM, as you don't have many options in the middle, but to really push on I think CM is the area you are most need of improvement.

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Actually Lennon was also his high school champion...

...

I had assumed the title in question was to do with the english (or UK) schools overall national championships, assuming there is such a thing.

However, I see from wiki that Milner was simply a "district" (i.e local) 100m champion at school, which probably means there were many schoolboys faster than him across the UK.

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Ok, your point of Lennon being the best winger in the league, bar none - can you back this up with evidence and/or reasoned argument?

I believe I said the best right winger in the Prem (or if I didn't that's what I meant since he is mainly right-footed even if he sometimes switches to the left).

The evidence comes mainly from just seeing him play in comparison to others. Defences are more scared of him down the right than any other player, because no-one else can go past defenders as easily as he does and no-one panics defences as much he does. If you look at opposition message boards just before they play Spurs, usually the main worry they have is Lennon, or else relief if he is not fit to play.

His combination of blinding pace, devasting acceleration, change of direction on a sixpence, trickery and close ball-control at speed makes him mostly unstoppable except by conceding a corner (if the defender manages to get that close to him) or fouling (which of course comes at the expense of free-kicks in usually dangerous areas). According to ESPN's stats, he has been fouled 46 times in 20 appearances, whilst committing just 6 fouls himself.

His crossing ability has improved a lot (10 assists this season, in just 19 games started and 1 sub appearance) and he also does his fair share of tracking back and defensive duties. He also rarely loses the ball or gives it away from a bad pass.

I don't see any right winger who is as good in the Prem, far less better.

To be fair though, to say he is the most feared team on opposition forums prior to the game is a flawed argument, because all that shows is that he is the best player in your team rather than the best in the Prem.

While he has undoubtedly been on form this season and is most likely in Capello's WC11 unless of injury or a dramatic drop in form (and even then he'll likely make the squad), he is not the best right winger in the Premiership.

I'd say Valencia, Young, Milner, Rosicky, maybe even Bentley are all equal to Lennon. Maybe even better on their top form. And that's not to account for all the players who can play right midfield who are just as effective in wearing down defences, such as Arteta, J. Cole, Ireland etc.

While Lennon is undoubtedly on form this season it's a bit too soon to be calling him the best RW in the Premiership. Let's see if he keeps this form up for another 2/3 seasons and then we can start the discussion.

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