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If we had Torres and Gerrard...


B.Robinson

If we added Torres and Gerrard to the current Villa squad, where would we be in May?  

156 members have voted

  1. 1. If we added Torres and Gerrard to the current Villa squad, where would we be in May?

    • Clear at the top of the table
      14
    • Challenging for the league
      100
    • Safely in the top 4
      36
    • 5th - 6th
      6


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Exactly. What sets Liverpool apart from the rest of the league is those 2 players. yes they have good players elsewhere (Reina being the only other one I'd class as a top player) but no-one close to Gerrard and Torres. If Gerrard and Torres were removed from their team they wouldn't be top 4.

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Our squad is better than Liverpool's squad without Torres and Gerrard. Those two are the difference for them. If we had them we'd be challenging for the league.

But that is a massive "if". They are fabulous players.

What a load of bollocks 'Stevo.' We would be in the same predicament as Liverpool, in the top four, but no chance of winning the league, as our present squad is just as bad as Liverpool's. Their's, is maybe, slightly better as they have Benayoun, Mascherano, Johnson, Carragher and Kuyt. We have, well, imm, Young and thats it. The rest of our players come under the headline, Distinctly Average!

Liverpool challenged for the league title last season, and if Torres and Gerrard stay fit then they may well do it thisyear, but will ultimately fall short.

If we had both of those then yes we'd be in the same predicament, in the top 4, challenging for the title but probably not winning it. Which is why I didn't vote that we'd win the league, I voted we'd be challenging. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

The point i was trying to make was that you said our squad was better than Liverpool's when Liverpool were without Gerrard and Torres! I was disagreeing with your statement!

I think it would be a very close call. From the liverpool players you mention

Kuyt: Plays up front or right wing, Gabby or Milner are comfortably better than him.

Benayoun: great player. But an on form Ashley Young is still better (granted Young isn't on form at the moment)

Mascherano: No argument there, he's better than anyone we have in that position

Johnson: better than Luke Young? Attacking yes. Defensively, definitely not. Johnson is better overall but not by a million miles.

Carragher: past it. Both Collins and Dunne are better these days.

Gerrad and Torres are the only players they have that would get in, say, the United team week in week out. Possibly Reina as well.

Without Torres and Gerrard their squad really isn't great.

Gabby and Milner better than Kuyt? Not in my opinion.

Benayoun is far more effective than Young and also can play the defence spilting pass!

Would far rather have Johnson than Luke Young. Much more complete player with a dash of flair.

Carragher past it? I don't think so. Did you see his performance against United? Would prefer to have him in our defence instead of Dunne. Collins has the potential to be better than Carragher, but not just yet!

Sorry mate do respect your opinion. Maybe we will finally agree on something. :|

That's your opinion. I don't expect it to agreewith me because I don't think we have an average team with a shit manager like you do.

You really think Kuyt is better than Milner and Gabby?

You think Carragher has been anything more than average this season?

Would you swap Young for benayoun?

If your answers are yes then I for one am very thankful you're not our manager because, in my opinion, we'd be in freefall.

I guess when you put forward an opinion on anything, it is there to be judged on. I welcome your opinion, but alas, strongly disagree with it, as you do mine. Our team and manager will be judged on their style of play, their results and of course, what trophies they win, if any. I believe Liverpool's performance's over the past few seasons although not matching their previous glory days, still far outway that of our own. You say that without Torres and Gerrard our squad is better than Liverpool's, well there have been times when Torres and Gerrard have been out of the Liverpool team due to injury, or other personal problems, yet they still manage to finish in the top four, while we haven't. How do you explain that? Is it because they have better players and a better manager? Or is it that they have been just lucky to constantly finish in the top four and indeed win the European Cup in recent times? I really don't think your point of debate justifys sensible reasoning, something which you have accused me of previously.

Liverpool have a better squad than us and they have constantly proved it in their results, where they have finished and what they have won. You say we would be in freefall if those Liverpool players mentioned replaced ours. Previous seasonal results suggests otherwise.

I have also noted your jibe about me being manager. Whilst i would love to be in that position, any Villa fan would, especially with the financial backing Randy has presented to our present manager, i am not arrogant enough to say that i would qualified to become manager of our great club, but i do feel, being a Villa fan for the past 40 odd years indeed leaves me qualified to voice my opinion on our most recent signings, tactics, style of play and performances, which for the majority of the time, i have found disappointing and i will continue to state as such, until that changes!

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Because we're not talking about previous seasons. Last season they had Alonso too, another brilliant player, plus Carragher wasn't playing like a shadow of his former self. Their squad in previous seasons has been better than their squad now. I'm not denying, and never have, that Liverpool are a great team and have achieved a lot, but I think their squad has worsened in recent times.

Right now, their squad minus Torres and Gerrard is poor in comparison to the rest of the top 4. Just look at their performances in the 4 games they lost recently.

If you removed Torres and Gerrard from their squad right now, they wouldn't finish top 4 this season, in my opinion. They'd be just outside, behind Man City and battling with Spurs and us for 5th-7th. That puts them on a par with us. Ok, fair enough I'll concede they might still be better than us without Torres and Gerrard, but it wouldn't be by much. A strikeforce of N'Gog and Voronin? Hardly strikes fear into opponents. Lucas with a permanent spot in midfield? Hardly awe inspiring is it? Gerrard and Torres is what puts them into the top 4 as it stands, and in my opinion putting those 2 into our team would leave us in a similar position.

It wasn't a "jibe" at you being manager. I was simply pointing out that if our manager, MON for example, went out in January and swapped Milner for Kuyt, Young for Benayoun and Collins for Carragher there would be uproar, and we'd be a worse team as a result.

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Because we're not talking about previous seasons. Last season they had Alonso too, another brilliant player, plus Carragher wasn't playing like a shadow of his former self. Their squad in previous seasons has been better than their squad now. I'm not denying, and never have, that Liverpool are a great team and have achieved a lot, but I think their squad has worsened in recent times.

Right now, their squad minus Torres and Gerrard is poor in comparison to the rest of the top 4. Just look at their performances in the 4 games they lost recently.

If you removed Torres and Gerrard from their squad right now, they wouldn't finish top 4 this season, in my opinion. They'd be just outside, behind Man City and battling with Spurs and us for 5th-7th. That puts them on a par with us.

It wasn't a "jibe" at you being manager. I was simply pointing out that if our manager, MON for example, went out in January and swapped Milner for Kuyt, Young for Benayoun and Collins for Carragher there would be uproar, and we'd be a worse team as a result.

I see you again starting to twist a debate to suit your own argument 'Stevo.' You mention the four games that Liverpool have lost recently, yet forget to mention their most recent victory against Man U, without Gerrard, i hasten to add! Something we have failed to do in a very long time. You also mentioned Liverpool's squad without Torres and Gerrard, yet didn't once mention that you were only referring to this season's performances. I think thats being rather selective, don't you think? Also, Collins for Carragher? I said Dunne for Carragher and i see you have now dropped the YoungvJohnston comparision! For me, i think Kuyt and Benayoun are far more effective going forward than anything we have.

Ok, since you have moved the goalposts a little, now just referring to this season, yes Liverpool's performances have been generally poor, but i still think that by the end of the season, if we finish above Liverpool, then we will have breached the top four, with, or without, Torres and Gerrard!

Going for some breakfast, so good luck and thanks for your opinion.

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But Sting, the question was if we had Torres and gerrard where would we finish. The question was referring to right now, this moment in time, so I answered in that respect. If you were thinking about previous seasons then did you read the OP properly? This whole thread is about the squads as it stands right now. I'm not twisting the argument, I'm answering the same question I've been answering all along, which is the contribution of those two players to the PRESENT squads.

As for the United game, was that without Torres AND gerrard? No it wasn't, hence why I didn't refer to it when talking about Liverpool playing without Torres AND Gerrard. I don't think that's too outrageous is it? No coincidence that Liverpool's opener came from a brilliant goal from Torres, that no-one else on the Liverpool team, in my opinion, would have scored.

Dunne/ Collins, ok yes you did refer to Dunne, but I think the point still stands. If MON went out in January and swapped our on form, younger CB, for an older, possibly past it CB I for one would be pretty annoyed.

And for the record I dropped the Young vs Johnson comparison because I conceded Johnson was the better player. I assumed you didn't want to argue about something I agreed on.

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As far as having anything good to say about anyone at the Villa, well, the ball boys do a good job. :winkold: Concerning our manager and present squad, nope!

Yea, thought so. Is it safe to conclude that you've never had anything good to say about any Villa squad and manager you've watched?

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Gerrard and Torres are the sort of players who make a good squad great,

At the moment we have a steady squad with decent players but no-one who can score goals out of nothing when it matters.

Another question should be though - where would Liverpool be without them??

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As far as having anything good to say about anyone at the Villa, well, the ball boys do a good job. :winkold: Concerning our manager and present squad, nope!

Yea, thought so. Is it safe to conclude that you've never had anything good to say about any Villa squad and manager you've watched?

I hate to admit it but I belong somewhere in that category.

Big Ron's 4-4-2 and Dwight Yorke in Brian Little's 5-3-2 have been the best that I have seen. Some good play during Gregory's reign and David Platt scoring in Taylor's 5-3-2 was nice also but other than that it has been ... well, not as good as I had wished for.

But I liked Doug Ellis!

Out of topic: I think Platt and Sidwell have something in common, a lot of running and less creating. The difference in Sidwell runs more sideways and Platt did it back and forward. Platt scored a few more goals also:)

So Platt was a real box-to-box player, Sidwell isn't.

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Definitely challenging for the the league.

Would complete two problem spots in our team and sort out the serious business of quality players in positions where you need consistency.

After a few years I would see us having a serious chance to win the league, or clear the chasing pack, these two players are absolutely awesome and make a strong team very dangerous.

We are a strong team.

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As far as having anything good to say about anyone at the Villa, well, the ball boys do a good job. :winkold: Concerning our manager and present squad, nope!

Yea, thought so. Is it safe to conclude that you've never had anything good to say about any Villa squad and manager you've watched?

No, is the answer to your question. Wouldn't be a Villa fan for some 40 years and counting if i thought that.

Rather than spending the next 20 minutes telling you which Villa squad and managers i did admire, please refer to AlienVillan's post!

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As far as having anything good to say about anyone at the Villa, well, the ball boys do a good job. :winkold: Concerning our manager and present squad, nope!

Yea, thought so. Is it safe to conclude that you've never had anything good to say about any Villa squad and manager you've watched?

No, is the answer to your question. Wouldn't be a Villa fan for some 40 years and counting if i thought that.

Rather than spending the next 20 minutes telling you which Villa squad and managers i did admire, please refer to AlienVillan's post!

True martyrs, the two of you. I've always enjoyed being a Villa fan, there's more to it than winning every weekend. The need to slag off everyone from your supposedly favorite team is alien to me, but fair enough.

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As far as having anything good to say about anyone at the Villa, well, the ball boys do a good job. :winkold: Concerning our manager and present squad, nope!

Yea, thought so. Is it safe to conclude that you've never had anything good to say about any Villa squad and manager you've watched?

No, is the answer to your question. Wouldn't be a Villa fan for some 40 years and counting if i thought that.

Rather than spending the next 20 minutes telling you which Villa squad and managers i did admire, please refer to AlienVillan's post!

True martyrs, the two of you. I've always enjoyed being a Villa fan, there's more to it than winning every weekend. The need to slag off everyone from your supposedly favorite team is alien to me, but fair enough.

Sounds very like it to me mate that you are at present, going through the menopause? Go and see your GP and learn to chill out a little.

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