Big_John_10 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Continually playing players out of position Even the best managers do this at times. Cuellar at RB has contributed to us having the best defensive record in the league at the moment. not knowing when his centre midfield is knackered and refusing to substitute them! What an arrogant response, you spoke to petrov then? It's your opinion he was knackered nothing else. Purchasing a striker who is habitually scoreless when Gabby was knackered, Carew was injured when we needed the exact oposite! We needed a physical prescence upfront, players aren't always available or interested. It hasn't worked out but he isn't the first manager to sign someone that didn't work. Paid 8.5m for a midfielder and generally refuses to play him, even when we have injuries, or our other central midfielders are playing shite! No matter what we paid NRC is not a player who commands a first team place all the time. We haven't done too badly without him have we? Then there's Europe, or should i say, was Europe Now thats what i call a manager full of knowledge and wisdom! Can't argue with that one. Losing to vienna was poor and i wish we were still in europe. Still it could be a blessing come the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sled Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 So it is now "arrogant" to say that Petrov is knackered without asking him. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Master Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 He should stay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Keep him until Rafa becomes available... haha, i might have missed something, but that was a joke...right? I'm over the moon with our current sucesses we are well over achieving what I thought. Many things I'm quite disgruntled with about Mon but hes constantly prooving me wrong lately which is fantastic. On the poll I am for stay, against all odds its the one thing I have maintained as I still thing he should be given more time and the age old argument I use for all of these questions is you only have to look at the clubs that achieve most, how long there managers have been at the club and given for success. P.S. On the playing players out of position, that is my greatest bugbear with Mon, he does this so badly its crucifying at times. One thing he must change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olejniker Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I was one of the 3 to vote undecided. I think MON has done great for now, and it'd be wholly illogical for him to go at the moment, he has built a good squad, a good first team, and we are doing pretty well under his charge. But I just think his flaws will prove to be a problem when we want to challenge the likes of Man U and Arsenal year in year out and also the likes of Barcelona, AC Milan, given that our goal is to get back into the Champions League. MON's major flaw has been his tactical acumen during the game itself, and his unwillingness to use his substitutes. I understand MON is very loyal to his first-team players who are playing well, and doesn't like to take them off and change things during games in which we are winning. But sadly, this loyalty to his players has cost us, especially in the Man City game, when after 10 or so minutes of sustained Man City pressure through the influence of Ireland, MON still didn't do anything to combat that. He doesn't seem to respond to the changes in the opposition side's approach, be it through substitution and/or approach play. He only reacted in the Man City game AFTER they equalized by sending on Heskey for Carew, and it was too little too late. Damage had already been done. And the Man City example is just that - an example. MON has been guilty of this unwillingness to respond tactically many other times, and I'm sure many other posters will recall serperate occasions where this has happened. I'm willing to stick with MON for now, I really do think he can take us even higher than where we are now, but when we do get up there with the big boys, will MON be good enough for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbojangles Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 stay. very frustrating in the transfer market leaving things until the last minute but we would not get anyone half as good if he left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I'm willing to stick with MON for now, I really do think he can take us even higher than where we are now, but when we do get up there with the big boys, will MON be good enough for us? I agree with a lot of what you say, its all those things that i have gripes with too. The answer to this question though is a case of as long as he adapts to the new situations of going for top honours. To find that out we havge to give time, so thats where I draw my "stay" from, for now. I hope he does, I mean you wont find a more passionate manager, its great to watch him. Sort out his other quirks and we'll be onto a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Hmmmm. strange poll results. 92% + 5% + 1% = 98% the mystery of the missing 2 percent .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 In all fairness, you have to give credit to those who wanted him out at the end of last season, still wanting him out now. At least they're not fickle. I would also guess that at some point in the season, should we be up there challenging, they may have to reassess their stance ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chips'ngravy Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Came on here expecting to find the stay voters castigating those who wanted him out. Can't believe people are genuinely still debating this! MON is not perfect and will continue to make mistakes. I've found him incredibly frustrating at times and although I voted stay I was beginning to wonder about him after the Wigan game. I'll gladly hold my hand up and apologise for ever having doubted him. After having witnessed recent performances it's fair to stay he knows a damn sight more than us lot put together. We are now beating the top four, something we were incapable of doing for a long time. On a personal level I've started to feel excited again about how we are playing, which after losing Barry and Laursen I didn't think was likely this season. I think it's unquestionable that we have progressed as a team and a club under the guidance of MON and I see no reason why that will not continue. On a side note, I couldn't be happier that we are out of Europe. I think it will be of tremendous benefit to us in our attempt to crack the top four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 22, 2009 Moderator Share Posted October 22, 2009 stay. very frustrating in the transfer market leaving things until the last minute but we would not get anyone half as good if he left Yes how inconsiderate of Everton not to give in to Man Citeh at the drop of a hat. That wasn't frustrating at all, it was obvious. As soon as Lescott moved Central Defenders started moving left right and centre. Its just another of those things that people blame the manager for when it was out of his control, he knew his targets but no CD was going to move with the Lescott situation still ongoing. Stay obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 stay. very frustrating in the transfer market leaving things until the last minute but we would not get anyone half as good if he left Yes how inconsiderate of Everton not to give in to Man Citeh at the drop of a hat. That wasn't frustrating at all, it was obvious. As soon as Lescott moved Central Defenders started moving left right and centre. Its just another of those things that people blame the manager for when it was out of his control, he knew his targets but no CD was going to move with the Lescott situation still ongoing. What did the Lescott situation have to do with Collins? The only team who were reportedly in for him before us were Stoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namaste Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Stay, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Continually playing players out of position Even the best managers do this at times. Cuellar at RB has contributed to us having the best defensive record in the league at the moment. not knowing when his centre midfield is knackered and refusing to substitute them! What an arrogant response, you spoke to petrov then? It's your opinion he was knackered nothing else. Purchasing a striker who is habitually scoreless when Gabby was knackered, Carew was injured when we needed the exact oposite! We needed a physical prescence upfront, players aren't always available or interested. It hasn't worked out but he isn't the first manager to sign someone that didn't work. Paid 8.5m for a midfielder and generally refuses to play him, even when we have injuries, or our other central midfielders are playing shite! No matter what we paid NRC is not a player who commands a first team place all the time. We haven't done too badly without him have we? Then there's Europe, or should i say, was Europe Now thats what i call a manager full of knowledge and wisdom! Can't argue with that one. Losing to vienna was poor and i wish we were still in europe. Still it could be a blessing come the end of the season. 'Big John' value your opinion like i do everyone else's on here. Firstly if you think Cuellar is a RB then i don't wish to debate further on that point. Secondly, i'm certainly not trying to be arrogant about Petrov, just observant and it is what i have seen. Thirdly, purchasing a striker who doesn't score no matter what his presence is, is a bloody joke. Strikers must be able to score, Heskey can't on a regular basis! 8.5m on a midfielder who O'Neill won't play in my book is a total waste of anyone's money! Finally, at least we agree on Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienvillan Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I voted go the last time and i am voting go this time. Just don't think we play the type of football that should grace Villa Park. I don't think we will gain the success we all crave playing the Martin O'Neill way and he has wasted millions on transfers. He has taken 4 years to build a solid defence and we still lack creativity in midfield and that 20 goals a season striker. Even when such a striker becomes available, he refuses to buy him. Bent's success at Sunderland should be giving O'Neill nightmares and that very player might jump up and bite O'Neill in the arse! I want to see the type of football that 'Big Ron's' 90s team played and gained success with it. 'Big Ron' had an eye for the player who could do that something extra and win matches. Martin O'Neill views that type of player with suspicion and although we have gained some very creditable results and league finishes, i do believe with a more forward thinking manager at the helm, we would as far as quality of squad and Cup success is concerned, be much further forward. I hope i have to eat a huge lump of humble pie at some stage inside the next year which will end the 'five year plan.' However, i sincerely doubt it and i believe O'Neill has taken us as far as he can! I agree! IMO our performances have not been top4 or Champions League class. And I think Big Ron's style of play was fantastic! And I too hope you have to eat a huge lump of humble pie at some stage - although I'll be eating the same pie myself. But I'm still voting for MON to stay! I want to see if MON is right, I want to see how far he can take us. I want to see if it still can be done by Ron Saunders's style. Because I don't think we'll ever be spending the same amount of money on one single player than those big4 clubs, and pay huge wages. I believe MON and RL have the same vision. Instead of big star players, buy youth and hidden talent. But I don't think our recent signings are that great. They haven't shown me anything special yet. And I won't be fooled by a couple of goals scored by CBs. I need more evidence on their quality. (Further pie eating?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chips'ngravy Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I voted go the last time and i am voting go this time. Just don't think we play the type of football that should grace Villa Park. I don't think we will gain the success we all crave playing the Martin O'Neill way and he has wasted millions on transfers. He has taken 4 years to build a solid defence and we still lack creativity in midfield and that 20 goals a season striker. Even when such a striker becomes available, he refuses to buy him. Bent's success at Sunderland should be giving O'Neill nightmares and that very player might jump up and bite O'Neill in the arse! I want to see the type of football that 'Big Ron's' 90s team played and gained success with it. 'Big Ron' had an eye for the player who could do that something extra and win matches. Martin O'Neill views that type of player with suspicion and although we have gained some very creditable results and league finishes, i do believe with a more forward thinking manager at the helm, we would as far as quality of squad and Cup success is concerned, be much further forward. I hope i have to eat a huge lump of humble pie at some stage inside the next year which will end the 'five year plan.' However, i sincerely doubt it and i believe O'Neill has taken us as far as he can! I agree! IMO our performances have not been top4 or Champions League class. And I think Big Ron's style of play was fantastic! And I too hope you have to eat a huge lump of humble pie at some stage - although I'll be eating the same pie myself. But I'm still voting for MON to stay! I want to see if MON is right, I want to see how far he can take us. I want to see if it still can be done by Ron Saunders's style. Because I don't think we'll ever be spending the same amount of money on one single player than those big4 clubs, and pay huge wages. I believe MON and RL have the same vision. Instead of big star players, buy youth and hidden talent. But I don't think our recent signings are that great. They haven't shown me anything special yet. And I won't be fooled by a couple of goals scored by CBs. I need more evidence on their quality. (Further pie eating?) True enough we played the best football I've ever seen under Big Ron, but it didn't last very long as he remained overly faithful to ageing squad, refusing to blood youngsters. 15 years on the game has chnaged dramatically and the onus has shifted so much to power and pace in a way that wasn't present in those days. Now it is essential for a team to have these attributes just to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 22, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted October 22, 2009 Absolutely stay. He's spent a lot of money but he's also assembled probably the best squad (I stress squad) i've ever seen at VP. Yes we lack that bit of creative flair but we make up for that someway in many other areas. He's made mistakes transfer wise but everyone does. No our football isn't amazing to the eye, but results matter first and foremost to me, personally, and his results have been more than satisfactory. I'll admit my support for him has wavered at times but I'm as behind him now as I've ever been to be completely honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Stay - and our fans, like those of our rivlas, will have to accept we will never win the league whilst money rules and we do not have a mega-rich owner. I am not suggesting Randy should leave either, just fans have realistic expectations rather than harp on about winning the league and European Cup thirty years ago. A fine achievement to remember and celebrate nevertheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted October 22, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted October 22, 2009 What did the Lescott situation have to do with Collins? The only team who were reportedly in for him before us were Stoke. Zola did not want to sell him, that was the delay with Collins, Dunne was delayed because of Lescott. You can't seriously think MON leaves signing a player late because he chooses to? What benefit would it have? What would Mr Lerner say if he was? Is signing great players, late in a transfer period, a big enough fault in a manager to mean you would want him to leave? Despite his relative success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Stay, unless Zola becomes available, because at the start of the season someone told me he was much better a manager and West Ham would do really well under him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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