Compassionate grounds

[sm]

This country is already far too soft.

They should leave them in jail IHMO.

[bickster]

This country is already far too soft.

They should leave them in jail IHMO.

You know he's 100% innocent of course?

This conviction stank from before he was delivered into British hands.

I even doubt he's got cancer tbh and I don't reaaly care because this has more to do with World politics than it has to do with any individual

He was convicted on the flimsyest of evidence. To me this is just part of the same deal that brought him here and its all to do with oil and in its own part it diminishes Russia's influence on the world.

And yes I do think its one big huge conspiracy, and for once, I dont care.

[villa4europe]

im trying to stay away from this if possible cos i wasnt old enough back then to have a clue and still dont really, but has he been freed to live out his days as he pleases or just sent over there to live in a cushy jail closer to home?

[Kalim_a]

This country is already far too soft.

They should leave them in jail IHMO.

You know he's 100% innocent of course?

This conviction stank from before he was delivered into British hands.

I even doubt he's got cancer tbh and I don't reaaly care because this has more to do with World politics than it has to do with any individual

He was convicted on the flimsyest of evidence. To me this is just part of the same deal that brought him here and its all to do with oil and in its own part it diminishes Russia's influence on the world.

And yes I do think its one big huge conspiracy, and for once, I dont care.

Couldn't agree more. The whole deal (conviction, release) stinks. What stinks more is the alleged 'disgust' by some politicians, I think its just a frontage for the public.

But lets say he was guilty, I don't think I would have released him personally but have to give commendation for the showing of compassion. That truley is a great gesture... if of course the whole thing is genuine.

[thetrees]

This country is already far too soft.

They should leave them in jail IHMO.

You know he's 100% innocent of course?

This conviction stank from before he was delivered into British hands.

I even doubt he's got cancer tbh and I don't reaaly care because this has more to do with World politics than it has to do with any individual

He was convicted on the flimsyest of evidence. To me this is just part of the same deal that brought him here and its all to do with oil and in its own part it diminishes Russia's influence on the world.

And yes I do think its one big huge conspiracy, and for once, I dont care.

Couldn't agree more. The whole deal (conviction, release) stinks. What stinks more is the alleged 'disgust' by some politicians, I think its just a frontage for the public.

But lets say he was guilty, I don't think I would have released him personally but have to give commendation for the showing of compassion. That truley is a great gesture... if of course the whole thing is genuine.

He was convicted, and that conviction still stands, no matter what 'expert' knowledge there is that has decided that he is innocent.

The 'disgust' at the way the Libyans have triumphantly glorified his return is perfectly justified.

Many people here might not care but around 20 years ago 270 innocent people were murdered when a commercial airliner was blown out of the sky.

270, three strokes on a keyboard, just another statistic to many it seems....

[Awol]

At home with the Lockerbie bomber

Al-Megrahi promised that before he died he would present new evidence through his Scottish lawyers that would exonerate him. “My message to the British and Scottish communities is that I will put out the evidence and ask them to be the jury,” he said. He refused to elaborate. Asked who, then, was responsible for the deaths of 270 people who died in the Lockerbie bombing, al-Megrahi smiled. “It’s a very good question but I’m not the right person to ask.” He insisted that it was not Libya and would not be drawn on suggestions that it was Syria, Iran or the Palestinians.

.......

He appealed for the families’ understanding. “They believe I’m guilty which in reality I’m not. One day the truth won’t be hiding as it is now. We have an Arab saying: ‘The truth never dies’.”

I reckon this might unfold in a way that hasn’t been anticipated by our glorious rulers. If he drops any evidence of Syrian involvement that will completely bugger the ongoing US/UK efforts to bring them in from the cold.

It'll make our Justice System look a bit toss too.

[thetrees]

This smacks of the Birmingham pub bombings.

There are plenty out there prepared to protest people's innocence, but no one prepared to offer up who they believe to be truly guilty.

And if they have the strength in their convictions to protest a mans (mens) innocence, they know who the guilty are.

The true victims are the families whose lives were ruined by the callous actions of such people, but they are so easily cast aside from people's thoughts.

But of course the six Birmingham murderers were guilty all along, they were saved by a few bent coppers making sure that the evidence was overwhelming....

[Gringo]

This smacks of the Birmingham pub bombings.

There are plenty out there prepared to protest people's innocence, but no one prepared to offer up who they believe to be truly guilty.

And if they have the strength in their convictions to protest a mans (mens) innocence, they know who the guilty are.

The true victims are the families whose lives were ruined by the callous actions of such people, but they are so easily cast aside from people's thoughts.

But of course the six Birmingham murderers were guilty all along, they were saved by a few bent coppers making sure that the evidence was overwhelming....

You really shouldn't be drinking at this time in the morning - nonsense on stilts.

[Awol]

Lockerbie release casts dark shadow over Britain's ties with US

The release of the Lockerbie bomber is casting a long shadow over relations between Britain and the United States, where senior figures in the Obama Administration have expressed dismay over the Government’s failure to take a stand.

The controversy over the decision to let Abdul Baset Ali al-Megrahi go home to Libya was further stirred after Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, the son of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, said in a Libyan television interview yesterday that his release was linked to negotiations over oil and gas contracts.

Downing Street insisted that the decision — condemned by the White House yesterday as “outrageous and disgusting” — was a matter solely for the SNP-led Scottish government. However, a senior US official told The Times last night: “We believe it was the wrong decision — I don’t know if the UK thinks so or not. It has been extraordinarily silent on this issue.”

The official suggested that it was disingenuous for the Government to claim that responsibility lay only with the devolved Scottish government because the release of al-Megrahi had wider foreign policy implications.

Although diplomats say that Washington understands the constitutional independence of the Scottish Justice Ministry, some US policymakers are known to believe that the Government has deliberately “walked by the other side of the street”, possibly in the hope of earning a vast trade pay-back from a country with the biggest proven oil reserves in Africa.

Shortly after the former Prime Minister Tony Blair flew to Libya to meet Colonel Gaddafi in 2007, BG Group, Shell and BP secured substantial contracts with Libya.

Yesterday David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, dismissed any suggestion that al-Megrahi’s release was linked to business deals as “a slur”. In the wake of Washington’s outrage, however, he warned that the way in which the Libyan Government acted over the next few days would be significant in determining how the rest of the world treated the former pariah state.

It was also disclosed that a visit to the country by the Duke of York next month could be cancelled.

Mr Miliband’s assertions were apparently contradicted in a Libyan television interview with Mr Gaddafi broadcast yesterday. Colonel Gaddafi’s son said that discussion of al-Megrahi’s release had always been tied up with the oil and gas business.

“In all commercial contracts, for oil and gas with Britain, [al-Megrahi] was always on the negotiating table,” he said on the Libyan channel Al Mutawassit. Tony Blair raised al-Megrahi’s case each time he visited Libya as Prime Minister, he added. “All British interests were linked to the release of Abdul Baset Ali al-Megrahi.”

Downing Street also released details of a letter that Gordon Brown had written to Colonel Gaddafi, urging him to treat the return of the terminally-ill bomber with “sensitivity”.

David Cameron pressed Mr Brown yesterday on whether he supported the decision by Kenny MacAskill, the Scottish Justice Secretary, to free al-Megrahi after he had served less than eight years of his 27-year sentence.

In a letter to the Prime Minister, Mr Cameron pointed out that Mr Gaddafi had publicly thanked the Scottish authorities and the British Government for their stance, raising questions about London’s role.

“The fact that the decision to release him was taken by the Scottish Justice Secretary does not preclude you, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, from now expressing your opinion on a subject that is of great public concern,” the Conservative leader said.

“The public are entitled to know what you think of the decision.”

Mr Blair was accused by a former Cabinet minister of paving the way for the early release on his visit to Libya two years ago. Sir Malcolm Rifkind, who was Scottish Secretary when Pam Am flight 103 exploded over Lockerbie in 1988, alleged that the release stemmed from the prisoner transfer agreement that the former Prime Minister negotiated with Colonel Gaddafi.

Sir Malcolm told The Times: “When Tony Blair negotiated the transfer option he knew that al-Megrahi would benefit. That was the starting point for his release.” A spokesman for Mr Blair, who is travelling in China, declined to comment.

It also emerged that Mr Miliband was informed of Scotland’s desire to release the Lockerbie bomber well before the decision was made public this week.

Mr MacAskill is understood to have sought advice from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office about whether there was any legal impediment to releasing al-Megrahi from Greenock prison on compassionate grounds. According to a Downing Street source, Mr Miliband was “kept in the loop”.

P. J. Crowley, the US State Department spokesman, has confirmed that Washington repeatedly sought Downing Street’s views on the matter. “Going back literally months, we have been deeply engaged with both the Scottish government, Scottish authorities, and the British Government on this question,” he said.

“We have raised it in a variety of venues with a variety of officials at the highest levels of all governments and we expressed our firm conviction that this individual should serve out his time in jail.”

FWIW I think the government has done the right thing for the country, even if that doesn't square with justice.

[Gringo]

condemned by the White House yesterday as “outrageous and disgusting”

Obviously two wrongs don't make a right but maybe the US could cast their collective mind back to when they awarded medals to the commander and crew of the boat that shot down the iranian passenger flight killing 290.

[totteralong]

condemned by the White House yesterday as “outrageous and disgusting”

Obviously two wrongs don't make a right but maybe the US could cast their collective mind back to when they awarded medals to the commander and crew of the boat that shot down the iranian passenger flight killing 290.

Maybe you kiddies could understand our media is foreign.

[Awol]

maybe the US could cast their collective mind back to when they awarded medals to the commander and crew of the boat that shot down the iranian passenger flight killing 290.

US spies blamed Iran for Lockerbie bomb

[snip]American intelligence documents blaming Iran for the Lockerbie bombing would have been produced in court if the Libyan convicted of Britain’s worst terrorist attack had not dropped his appeal.

Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi, a former Libyan intelligence officer expected to be freed this week, had instructed his lawyers to produce internal US intelligence communications unavailable to his defence team at his trial in 2000.

The cables, from the American Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA), suggest that Iran was behind the attack on Pan Am flight 103, which killed 270 people in 1988, in response to the shooting down of an Iranian commercial airliner by the USS Vincennes, an American warship, five months earlier.

One document that the defence team had planned to produce was a memo from the DIA dated September 24, 1989. It states: “The bombing of the Pan Am flight was conceived, authorised and financed by Ali-Akbar (Mohtashemi-Pur), the former Iranian minister of interior. [/snip]

From what Megrahi said in The Times interview I wouldn't like to bet that information isn't coming out anyway, leaving egg on the faces of us and the Americans. No wonder they were so against him being released.

[Grant(aka_eddy)]

It's a difficult one as there are three issues. The first being a discussion around the principles of releasing on compassionate grounds, the second and third being the particularly convoluted circumstances of this case of both the mans guilt and world politics.

It's really hard to know who to listen to on this one. All kinds of alarm bells are going off around the motives behind the release and the welcome he had back home, if he is guilty, is sickening. Was that a celebration of his alleged actions or a welcome for a man they believe was innocent?

Anyhow, he should not have been released on compassionate grounds, if there is an issue with his case that needs to be reviewed through the justice system then it should have been done so. This is a back door kind of route that has caused alot of hurt to those who needed justice after the horrific event.

You cannot say he is still guilty but then go on to release him. Either justice has been done and he is jailed or justice has not been done yet and he is released.

I feel very sorry for the families involved, the whole situation must have invoked alot of anger.

[Gringo]

maybe the US could cast their collective mind back to when they awarded medals to the commander and crew of the boat that shot down the iranian passenger flight killing 290.

US spies blamed Iran for Lockerbie bomb

Indeed they did - but the only thing (obviously excluding secret documents) they had on them at the time was motive - ie revenge for the aforementioned shooting down of their own plane.

[Kalim_a]

This country is already far too soft.

They should leave them in jail IHMO.

You know he's 100% innocent of course?

This conviction stank from before he was delivered into British hands.

I even doubt he's got cancer tbh and I don't reaaly care because this has more to do with World politics than it has to do with any individual

He was convicted on the flimsyest of evidence. To me this is just part of the same deal that brought him here and its all to do with oil and in its own part it diminishes Russia's influence on the world.

And yes I do think its one big huge conspiracy, and for once, I dont care.

Couldn't agree more. The whole deal (conviction, release) stinks. What stinks more is the alleged 'disgust' by some politicians, I think its just a frontage for the public.

But lets say he was guilty, I don't think I would have released him personally but have to give commendation for the showing of compassion. That truley is a great gesture... if of course the whole thing is genuine.

He was convicted, and that conviction still stands, no matter what 'expert' knowledge there is that has decided that he is innocent.

The 'disgust' at the way the Libyans have triumphantly glorified his return is perfectly justified.

Many people here might not care but around 20 years ago 270 innocent people were murdered when a commercial airliner was blown out of the sky.

270, three strokes on a keyboard, just another statistic to many it seems....

Yep and 290 innocent people were murdered in an Iranian plane shot down by the americans, funnily enough the commander who carried it out was given a medal, how do you think the Iranian familes felt about that?!

How about the 2.7 billion US dollars Libya gave to to the US families as compensation. If they were happy to accept the money they should just stay quiet! Perhaps they want a dollar each from everyone who gave him a welcome along with a free barrel of oil.

[pmarachi]

as this was the topic that led to my banning on the H&V forum, I will not be touching on this...

[Awol]

Well the lies are unravelling now..

Libya paid for medical advice that helped Lockerbie bomber's release

Medical evidence that helped Megrahi, 57, to be released was paid for by the Libyan government, which encouraged three doctors to say he had only three months to live.

The life expectancy of Megrahi was crucial because, under Scottish rules, prisoners can be freed on compassionate grounds only if they are considered to have this amount of time, or less, to live.

Meanwhile..

Gordon Brown vetoes Libyan payout to IRA victims

GORDON BROWN personally vetoed an attempt to force Colonel Muammar Gadaffi to compensate IRA bomb victims because it might have jeopardised British oil deals with Libya.

Documents passed to The Sunday Times reveal how the prime minister took a close interest in a campaign to secure payouts for the 2,500 families of those blown up by the Libyan-supplied Semtex explosive used by republican bombers.

However, Brown refused to help the victims because of government concerns that putting pressure on Gadaffi might lead to Libya withdrawing co-operation over trade and the war against Islamic terrorism.

The documents will cause embarrassment for Brown as he faces new questions over the early release of the convicted Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi.

There's more..

That's it. Gordon Brown isn't going to make it to the general election

I could hardly believe my ears when Jack Straw said yesterday that “I certainly didn’t talk to the PM. There is no paper trail to suggest he was involved at all” in the link between prisoner release negotations and trade relations with Libya, which Straw admits existed.

No paper trail? That’s Watergate language. And, just as with Watergate, the unravelling has been swift: it now appears that Straw wrote to Brown warning that the Libyans might block a BP oil deal unless the bomber was released. President Barack Obama will go nuts when he learns all this.

Anyone would think that Brown has actually gone a bit tonto. Oh, hang on..

Gordon Brown ‘on drugs to control depression’

"Brown has recently been given a "long list of forbidden foods". The civil servant, who works regularly with the PM, told Ward that Brown had been banned from eating and drinking several specific things "because of the drugs he's on".

Top of the list of foods that Brown can no longer touch, the source told Ward, were cheese, Chianti and over-ripe avocados - which immediately rang alarm bells for Ward. "Every doctor in Britain would recognise these contra-indications instantly: for they are the great verbotens for people taking MAOI drugs."

MAOIs - which stands for Mono Amine Oxidase Inhibitors - are generally a last line of treatment for major depression, when other anti-depressant drugs have failed. They can also be very effective in treating OCD. But they are potentially extremely dangerous. If the patient eats or drinks the wrong thing, they can result in death – hence the PM's "long list of forbidden foods".

Like any normal person I have sympathy with anyone suffering mental illness, however it's very clear to me that this man cannot be allowed to continue in post for much longer.

ESTABLISHMENT 'COLLUDING IN PLIGHT OF SICK MAN BROWN'

"The Prime Minister of Great Britain is a man too ill to be holding the Office." This was the conclusion last week of a senior civil servant liaising regularly with Gordon Brown. For reasons which will become clear, the person involved will not go public with the evidence for this conclusion. The same applies to a high-ranking Treasury official who told us "In both a physical and mental sense, the Prime Minister is a very sick man, seriously disabled." Three years ago, an Opposition MP told nby "He is on extremely heavy doses of cutting-edge anti-depressants, but so far they have made little difference". And during the last fortnight, another high-ranking government source claimed "He is now on pills which restrict the foods he can eat and what he can drink. He is losing the sight of his good eye quite rapidly. It's a mess, and nobody knows what to do".

Do Labour MP's have the courage to put the country before their own petty ambitions? Maybe..

An October revolt is plotted. Brown's head is not safe yet

"When Westminster reassembles, everything will come down to three things. The first is Labour's collective state of mind. Today, after a week where Brown's enemies have pummelled him for his dismal equivocations over the Lockerbie bomber, the backbench verdict might be pretty close to YouGov's poll verdict in yesterday's Sun, with a mere 16% of voters thinking Brown is doing a good job. It would be "in the name of God, go" time. "

[Gringo]

Mandy won't oust him until after the Irish have voted for the EU treaty, so he's got a few weeks yet.

[Awol]

Mandy won't oust him until after the Irish have voted for the EU treaty, so he's got a few weeks yet.

I said the same on here months ago, pushing through the removal of British national independence is Fondlebum's only political purpose.

I hereby propose changing your movement from burn it all down to string them all up.

[snowychap]

I move all in!