A three year review of Aston Villa and Martin O'Neill

[OutByEaster?]

some will say Laursens omission was the main culprit and that maybe true.... but sometimes you have to improvise, when the perfect solution is not at hand.

I don't believe there was much of an attempt to do so.

I'm not sure I'm reading you right there TRO, if I am then that's the first time I've seen someone criticise last years defense and it's organisation for a lack of improvisation.

I'd wager that the right back who played left back, the two midfielders who played right back and the centre half who played right back might disagree with you.

I think I'd probably argue that there was too much of an attempt to improvise in replacing Laursen.

you most certainly are not reading me right at all... The improvisation i was referring to was in the midfield.

The defence was the defence and the personnel to go with it.... but you can protect them a little.... you see I'm one of those old fashioned farts that think you start defending from the front and start attacking from the rear.... this modern game is too much for me.

there were times during games c march time that Barry and Petrov were literally wide open and the defence just had everybody and his grandmother running at them.... that IMO could have been quelled by playing Nigel or sidders.... we just sat back in amazement and watched our team getting opened up.... I just remember looking at my mates and we all shaking our heads.

Ah, gotcha. I thought it seemed a strange one.

You're right, in the last month or two of the season Barry and Petrov ran out of gas with twenty minutes to go, and there was certainly an opportunity to rest one and let NRC do all the work for a game or two. I guess with both actually playing very well for 70 minutes that was a little more difficult, but the ideal would have been to go with a five I think and let Reo Coker do the running.

In short, I agree with you.

[1eye83]

Sorry for the length of this but i didn't think it warranted a contribution on the front page

I think it is great that somebody has attempted to lift the gloom enveloping Villa Park on the basis the season came to an anti climax. Without doubt being so close to the coveted top four only to see that hope evaporate over the last quarter of the season leaves a sour taste in the mouth and leaves you thinking that we threw away all the hard work of the previous 18 months. It is fair to say that MON could have given us some hope by now and try to raise our spirits by saying we have irons in the fire and stop the speculation surrounding Ashley Young, but I am sure we will be in the market for quality players. Whether MON will spend the money required is another matter.

Whilst MON is being lambasted by the Villa Faithful for his transfer policy and tactical naivety it cannot be argued that he hasn’t brought the best out of those at his disposal after all 12 months ago who would honestly have predicted we would enter December with a realistic chance of challenging for the title (Mathematically I mean) that we would be ten minutes away from winning at Old Trafford after being a goal down, that we would win convincingly at the Emirates and boss the return fixture at VP, That young would be PFA Young Player of the Year, that Heskey, A Young, L Young, Gabby, Barry, Milner and Davies would be called up to an England Squad only beaten by the best team in the world (At Present) Spain. We wouldn’t have believed we would be 8 points ahead of Arsenal in 4th Place. It goes to show that we are well ahead of the five year plan to get amongst the Elite –we were perhaps over performing and getting carried away with what was a false position, but there are certainly encouraging signs of us building.

On the flip side of this coin it is only fair to say that we shouldn’t have capitulated and MON should have strengthened sufficiently to cover for Laursens absence, and numerous players dips in form and should have used subs more. There can be no excuse for not changing the personnel with a run that culminated in a record of two wins in 15 games. Whilst Barry and Petrov were our locksmiths unpicking defences with their passing they were both prone to following the ball forward and not having the speed or stamina to get back and break up a counter attack when our attacks broke down. In a 451 we had an anchorman such as NRC, Gardner and Sidwell to pick up the pieces and not leave the centre exposed. O Neil lives and dies by his reputation forged for man management and polishing diamonds in the rough and therefore he had to keep faith with those he put on the pitch. In some cases form never recovered and he had to be humble enough to drop those players. Shorey has never looked good enough – his saving grace been when players played out of position at RB and he was spared the defensive duties. Gabby was Woeful from January onwards and looked disinterested, Knight has always been prone to errors and misreading of the game and Heskey in all fairness suffered from not being able to build a partnership with Gabby (It didn’t help that Gabby appeared to expect Heskey to do all his donkey work but was then never in position to finish off a move.

In O’Neill’s favour though look at the players who went through dips in form but rediscovered it to great effect because he stuck by them – Young, Friedel, Davies, Petrov, Carew, Barry. Can we not give O Neill Credit for instilling the belief in players that they can get up after a kick in the balls like Everton Away and win with the last kick of the ball, Everton at Home when we looked dead and buried against a very good side, The demotivation of outplaying Arsenal at home and being two goals down and numerous other great shows of character and resilience.

The biggest question mark over O Neill is his transfer policy – yes he has made some good signings, but he has made a lot of bad ones at a big cost and he has certainly not acted quickly enough to replace those leaving with adequate replacement (After three years and 12 makeshift right backs we still only have one recognised right back and even he was only signed last year)

Which team would we prefer?

MON didn’t rate -

Sorenson, Samuel, Mellberg, Cahill, Hughes, Berger, McCann, Davis, Angel, Baros, Phillips

MON signed –

Friedel, Shorey, Cuellar, Knight, L Young, A young, Reo Coker, Sidwell, Milner, Harewood, Carew

I know not all players in the first team are great and some in the second side we wouldn’t be without but the first team recouped 13m and the second cost 62.3m and I don’t believe there is a 50m amount more quality.

What’s more is players like Routledge and Maloney and Djemba Djemba were bought and sold without hardly featuring and costing us about 5 million in transfer fees.

[CaptCubbio2009]

Martin O Neill current Aston Villa FC Manager - He's a very good manager well he was for Leicester City FC we should never have let him go from the Foxes.

He's done alright for you Aston Villa fan's, even tho you've let Gareth Barry & S Taylor leave. I'm sure Martin will pick better player's for this coming season.

Regards

CaptCubbio2009

[Jon]

Martin O Neill current Aston Villa FC Manager - He's a very good manager well he was for Leicester City FC we should never have let him go from the Foxes.

He's done alright for you Aston Villa fan's, even tho you've let Gareth Barry & S Taylor leave. I'm sure Martin will pick better player's for this coming season.

Regards

CaptCubbio2009

Succinct and to the point. Thank you Captain.

I'm sure he'll get us some even better players this summer too.

[Harry]

Heystally! I almost expected to hear the strains of Land of Hope and Glory as I read your eulogy to MON.

Joking aside though I agree with most of what you say. Many fans seem to have underestimated the task facing MON when he took over from DOL. I think he has definitely raised the quality of the squad and lets not forget players are unpredictable, emotional and often irrational human beings which adds to the difficulties.

Yes we have made some poor signings but so have the much lauded managers of the 'big four' Its also hard to keep players who either want to go (Barry) or want 'guaranteed first team football' (Cahill and Davis). The team now play for each other and operate as a unit something sadly lacking in the DOL era. Overall he has done a very good job. You don't get to top six two years running on luck alone.

On the negative side he has been too cautious in the transfer market. His 'few pennies more' comment of a couple of years ago still worries me in that it suggests he has a top price for player and won't go over its. How many players we have missed through that policy will never be known.

The other negative factor is substitutions. A bench should have real options on it that can come on and be capable of changing a game. We have some but not enough options on the bench but his tactics appear to swing from do nothing to wildly optimistic changes that result in any number of players playing out of position.

Overall I still think he is the man for the job and I struggle to see a credible and more importantly gettable alternative. Having said that this window is so so crucial and will define the MON era, good or bad, at VP.

[Guest Ricardomeister]

I think that guy makes some valid points. However, the article is not very balanced in my humble opinion.

MON has done a good job. However, I would still contend that the squad he inherited was more of a mid-table squad than a relegation squad. The fact that they finished 16th was mainly down to DOL's poor management and a good manager would have had them in mid-table. I disagree that we are a serious top 4 challenger....realistically we are light years away imo.

Yes we deserved our 4 points off Arsenal and we did well against Everton, but he conveniently forgets that we got no points against Chelski, and were totally outplayed in one game and victims of a more clinical striker in the other. Yes, we played very well at Old Trafford library for 70 odd minutes but we were found wanting when it really mattered.

He says it is easy to criticise our 2nd half of the season with hindsight. However, I, and quite a few others, predicted that our squad was not strong enough and that we had gained quite a few points from being slightly fortunate and that would probably not continue. Laursen was one of the reasons we did not stay in the top 4, but the main reason was that the squad as a whole was never going to be good enough to sustain a top 4 place.

As for MON's signings, I would not call Carew a "goal-scoring machine". On his day he is almost unplayable but just as often he is anonymous. Also heystally conveniently forgets that MON got lucky in that it was more a case of wanting to offload Baros than a positive move for Carew.

Ashley has been a very good signing, although I would say a more realistic valuation would be £20 million, not £30 million. Also, I see him as a very good player, but not potentially world class.

Milner has been a good addition and I agree on many of his positive attributes but he forgot to mention his lack of pace and his shocking penalty taking!

Re the others, I agree with much of his positive points but again he forgets any of the negatives...Petrov (and Barry) often going missing defensively and NRC's passing. He is sure that Curtis will be back in the England squad, but I am more hopeful than expectant as there is so much competition when all are fit. I agree about Luke. Friedel, is still a good keeper though not as good as he was....also it was hardly rocket science MON not wanting to pay £10 million for calamity Carson!

Yes, MON has developed Barry and Gabby but I have to disagree that Gabby is "one of the most feared strikers in the league". I think Gabby has been nearly all about speed and he really needs to develop the other parts of his game if he is to progress.

I don't think reaching the last 32 of the UEFA Cup was bad, but it is nothing to get excited about. I hope MON can replace Barry and Laursen, but heystally's blind optimism is not justified imo.

Also I don't agree that we have the potential to get in the top 4 next season and I certainly do not agree that just because you are positive about everything then it means you get behind the team more. That smacks of "I am a better fan than you because I am more positive".

Yes, it is good that he looks at the positives, but it is fairly obvious imo that there are negatives too and just because you do not mention them it does not mean they will go away. I would rather try and take a more balanced and realistic view. I will take a lot of convincing that we are going to even stay in the top 6, let alone seriously challenge the top 4.

[TRO]

Sorry for the length of this but i didn't think it warranted a contribution on the front page

I think it is great that somebody has attempted to lift the gloom enveloping Villa Park on the basis the season came to an anti climax. Without doubt being so close to the coveted top four only to see that hope evaporate over the last quarter of the season leaves a sour taste in the mouth and leaves you thinking that we threw away all the hard work of the previous 18 months. It is fair to say that MON could have given us some hope by now and try to raise our spirits by saying we have irons in the fire and stop the speculation surrounding Ashley Young, but I am sure we will be in the market for quality players. Whether MON will spend the money required is another matter.

Whilst MON is being lambasted by the Villa Faithful for his transfer policy and tactical naivety it cannot be argued that he hasn’t brought the best out of those at his disposal after all 12 months ago who would honestly have predicted we would enter December with a realistic chance of challenging for the title (Mathematically I mean) that we would be ten minutes away from winning at Old Trafford after being a goal down, that we would win convincingly at the Emirates and boss the return fixture at VP, That young would be PFA Young Player of the Year, that Heskey, A Young, L Young, Gabby, Barry, Milner and Davies would be called up to an England Squad only beaten by the best team in the world (At Present) Spain. We wouldn’t have believed we would be 8 points ahead of Arsenal in 4th Place. It goes to show that we are well ahead of the five year plan to get amongst the Elite –we were perhaps over performing and getting carried away with what was a false position, but there are certainly encouraging signs of us building.

On the flip side of this coin it is only fair to say that we shouldn’t have capitulated and MON should have strengthened sufficiently to cover for Laursens absence, and numerous players dips in form and should have used subs more. There can be no excuse for not changing the personnel with a run that culminated in a record of two wins in 15 games. Whilst Barry and Petrov were our locksmiths unpicking defences with their passing they were both prone to following the ball forward and not having the speed or stamina to get back and break up a counter attack when our attacks broke down. In a 451 we had an anchorman such as NRC, Gardner and Sidwell to pick up the pieces and not leave the centre exposed. O Neil lives and dies by his reputation forged for man management and polishing diamonds in the rough and therefore he had to keep faith with those he put on the pitch. In some cases form never recovered and he had to be humble enough to drop those players. Shorey has never looked good enough – his saving grace been when players played out of position at RB and he was spared the defensive duties. Gabby was Woeful from January onwards and looked disinterested, Knight has always been prone to errors and misreading of the game and Heskey in all fairness suffered from not being able to build a partnership with Gabby (It didn’t help that Gabby appeared to expect Heskey to do all his donkey work but was then never in position to finish off a move.

In O’Neill’s favour though look at the players who went through dips in form but rediscovered it to great effect because he stuck by them – Young, Friedel, Davies, Petrov, Carew, Barry. Can we not give O Neill Credit for instilling the belief in players that they can get up after a kick in the balls like Everton Away and win with the last kick of the ball, Everton at Home when we looked dead and buried against a very good side, The demotivation of outplaying Arsenal at home and being two goals down and numerous other great shows of character and resilience.

The biggest question mark over O Neill is his transfer policy – yes he has made some good signings, but he has made a lot of bad ones at a big cost and he has certainly not acted quickly enough to replace those leaving with adequate replacement (After three years and 12 makeshift right backs we still only have one recognised right back and even he was only signed last year)

Which team would we prefer?

MON didn’t rate -

Sorenson, Samuel, Mellberg, Cahill, Hughes, Berger, McCann, Davis, Angel, Baros, Phillips

MON signed –

Friedel, Shorey, Cuellar, Knight, L Young, A young, Reo Coker, Sidwell, Milner, Harewood, Carew

I know not all players in the first team are great and some in the second side we wouldn’t be without but the first team recouped 13m and the second cost 62.3m and I don’t believe there is a 50m amount more quality.

What’s more is players like Routledge and Maloney and Djemba Djemba were bought and sold without hardly featuring and costing us about 5 million in transfer fees.

....I thought that was an excellent post and i just could not of put my thoughts on paper better than that.

Mon is much better supported in reality than the some of the posts suggest on here but some of those same supporters like me have doubts.

Like you the paradox of Martin O'Neill reluctant to waste money leaves me in a state of bewilderment.... because that's exactly what he ends up doing by his strategy.

Un like some, I don't believe he has made many bad signings.... IMO He has just simply paid too much money for modest players.

Its like your wife/mom going to a cheap supermaket for her shopping, when back home nobody eats it. Marks & spencer may have been better all round value.

[TRO]

I think that guy makes some valid points. However, the article is not very balanced in my humble opinion.

MON has done a good job. However, I would still contend that the squad he inherited was more of a mid-table squad than a relegation squad. The fact that they finished 16th was mainly down to DOL's poor management and a good manager would have had them in mid-table. I disagree that we are a serious top 4 challenger....realistically we are light years away imo.

Yes we deserved our 4 points off Arsenal and we did well against Everton, but he conveniently forgets that we got no points against Chelski, and were totally outplayed in one game and victims of a more clinical striker in the other. Yes, we played very well at Old Trafford library for 70 odd minutes but we were found wanting when it really mattered.

He says it is easy to criticise our 2nd half of the season with hindsight. However, I, and quite a few others, predicted that our squad was not strong enough and that we had gained quite a few points from being slightly fortunate and that would probably not continue. Laursen was one of the reasons we did not stay in the top 4, but the main reason was that the squad as a whole was never going to be good enough to sustain a top 4 place.

As for MON's signings, I would not call Carew a "goal-scoring machine". On his day he is almost unplayable but just as often he is anonymous. Also heystally conveniently forgets that MON got lucky in that it was more a case of wanting to offload Baros than a positive move for Carew.

Ashley has been a very good signing, although I would say a more realistic valuation would be £20 million, not £30 million. Also, I see him as a very good player, but not potentially world class.

Milner has been a good addition and I agree on many of his positive attributes but he forgot to mention his lack of pace and his shocking penalty taking!

Re the others, I agree with much of his positive points but again he forgets any of the negatives...Petrov (and Barry) often going missing defensively and NRC's passing. He is sure that Curtis will be back in the England squad, but I am more hopeful than expectant as there is so much competition when all are fit. I agree about Luke. Friedel, is still a good keeper though not as good as he was....also it was hardly rocket science MON not wanting to pay £10 million for calamity Carson!

Yes, MON has developed Barry and Gabby but I have to disagree that Gabby is "one of the most feared strikers in the league". I think Gabby has been nearly all about speed and he really needs to develop the other parts of his game if he is to progress.

I don't think reaching the last 32 of the UEFA Cup was bad, but it is nothing to get excited about. I hope MON can replace Barry and Laursen, but heystally's blind optimism is not justified imo.

Also I don't agree that we have the potential to get in the top 4 next season and I certainly do not agree that just because you are positive about everything then it means you get behind the team more. That smacks of "I am a better fan than you because I am more positive".

Yes, it is good that he looks at the positives, but it is fairly obvious imo that there are negatives too and just because you do not mention them it does not mean they will go away. I would rather try and take a more balanced and realistic view. I will take a lot of convincing that we are going to even stay in the top 6, let alone seriously challenge the top 4.

Take a bow Ric.... a terrifically constructed BALANCED post.... as always your comments are well worth listening to.

[col8]

Anyone who thought MON would take over and win the league in 5 years was deluded, this is the highest level he has managed at in his career and like all of us its a steep learning curve. Transfers have been disapointing, at this level theres no room for "he has potential" players have to be proven. If MON can finish top 5-6 again this year he will have proved he has consolidated Villa as a European club. Winning the league is still light years away.

[AstonMartin82]

Agree with most of the post but have to disagree with your analysis that the loss of Martin Laursen was the reason for our last third demise.

I think the biggest single reason was MON's failure to make substitutions when required and to alter the way we play at times to match up to our opposition. I would pick a few games to comment upon (my view of course):

- In the Chelsea game we should have really gone at them for the last half an hour as they managed just to stall the game after scoring and we needed an extra man in midfield to match up to their 4-5-1 BUT I can accept a loss at home to the CL finalists

- In the following game, at home to Stoke, MON should have closed the game down by either switching to a 4-5-1 (firming up the tiring middle and pushing the wingers on) or, at a minimum, getting NRC on to break up the opposition game. Ditto West Ham, Man U (a) and Hull (although we did manage to hold on to the latter.

- In the Everton and Liverpool game, particularly the latter, to go in with a two man CM of Barry and Stan against their 4-5-1's was just naive IMO

Can't remember all of the others, but I think MON has shown himself to be tactically naive in that run. I would like to think he can learn from this but he is so stubborn (like Cloughie his Mentor) that I am not sure that he will!

I couldnt agree more with this post. The amount of times I've found myself screaming for MON to bring on Reo when winning a game. He'd get stuck in and sure up our lightweight midfield when under the cosh.

I'm sure it cost us around 6 points last season alone.

Other than that I'm very happy with MON.

[Villaninoz]

Brilliant read. Agree 100%. We have built and got better each year.

[TRO]

Agree with most of the post but have to disagree with your analysis that the loss of Martin Laursen was the reason for our last third demise.

I think the biggest single reason was MON's failure to make substitutions when required and to alter the way we play at times to match up to our opposition. I would pick a few games to comment upon (my view of course):

- In the Chelsea game we should have really gone at them for the last half an hour as they managed just to stall the game after scoring and we needed an extra man in midfield to match up to their 4-5-1 BUT I can accept a loss at home to the CL finalists

- In the following game, at home to Stoke, MON should have closed the game down by either switching to a 4-5-1 (firming up the tiring middle and pushing the wingers on) or, at a minimum, getting NRC on to break up the opposition game. Ditto West Ham, Man U (a) and Hull (although we did manage to hold on to the latter.

- In the Everton and Liverpool game, particularly the latter, to go in with a two man CM of Barry and Stan against their 4-5-1's was just naive IMO

Can't remember all of the others, but I think MON has shown himself to be tactically naive in that run. I would like to think he can learn from this but he is so stubborn (like Cloughie his Mentor) that I am not sure that he will!

I couldnt agree more with this post. The amount of times I've found myself screaming for MON to bring on Reo when winning a game. He'd get stuck in and sure up our lightweight midfield when under the cosh.

I'm sure it cost us around 6 points last season alone.

Other than that I'm very happy with MON.

The amazing thing is petrov & Barry would agree with you of bringing Nigel on during the debacle of a run ..... but hey.. theres only one Manager.