drat01 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 UKIP watch - half way down - what became of the 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 UKIP watch - half way down - what became of the 12 Interesting. A website by two bloggers who refuse to reveal their identity. McBride and Watson maybe? Or is this what you've been doing recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 5, 2009 Moderator Share Posted June 5, 2009 UKIP watch - half way down - what became of the 12 Aye UKIP are a bunch of corrupt rocket polishers, this separates them from Labour and the Conservatives how exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 So with voting the closed........... [table][row][col]Lib Dem[col] 29%[col] [ 25 ] [row][col]I intend to set fire to the ballot box [col]16%[col] [ 14 ] [row][col]Labour [col] 11%[col] [ 10 ] [row][col]Green [col]10% [col][ 9 ] [row][col]BNP [col]9% [col][ 8 ] [row][col]UKIP [col] 9% [col][ 8 ] [row][col]Tory [col] 8%[col] [ 7 ] [row][col]Other Independent [col] 4%[col] [ 4 ] [row][col]Veritas [col] 1%[col] [ 1 ] [row][col]Jury team [col] 0% [col][ 0 ][/table] BIAD a very respectable second, tory party vote split by UKIP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 they have the best slogan "british jobs for british people" That was Gordon's Slogan not so long ago .. maybe the parties are not so far apart on immigration after all ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Do you oppose making foreign nationals carry an ID card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 tory party vote split by UKIP? I'm confused as reading through the past few pages i thought it would be the labour vote they would be taking ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 tory party vote split by UKIP?I'm confused as reading through the past few pages i thought it would be the labour vote they would be taking ?have it your way if you want, but that would put the collective labour support on 20% (11% lab + 9% ukip) vs tories 8%. Interesting in the terms of the thread that no one actually came out of the closet and said they had voted for either labour or tory. It's like the old days when people were too embarrassed to admit they voted tory - only now people are too coy to admit to either tory or labour support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Well I would have put Tory (no surprise) but as my voting slip went in the bin when it arrived i went for the burn the ballet box option thus depriving the Tories of a vote have it your way if you want, but that would put the collective labour support on 20% (11% lab + 9% ukip) vs tories 8%. Wasn't My way per se , was just commenting on the remarks of the previous few pages ... As Nigel was an Ex Tory I would have agreed with your initial statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Deleted - not the style of post that is acceptable, this post was clearly aimed at winding up another poster and not actually joining in the debate, any more posts of this nature and a card will be issued - Bicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 The projected vote share for the council elections brakes down as: Tories - 38% Lib Dems - 28% Labour - 23% Source: Beeb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 5, 2009 Moderator Share Posted June 5, 2009 Do you oppose making foreign nationals carry an ID card? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Do you oppose making foreign nationals carry an ID card? Yes. Good and I agree, Pete. (It was not an expression of my opinion but a quote from a Labour campaign leaflet in the Crewe by-election about which there were many complaints, especially from Labour party members) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 The projected vote share for the council elections brakes down as: Tories - 38% Lib Dems - 28% Labour - 23% Source: Beeb I imagine the Tories might be slightly concerned at the drop in their share of the vote from last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Revealed: Labour HQ's instructions on what to say about Purnell, the reshuffle and the elections Here we publish the 11am briefing from Labour high command to cabinet ministers, MPs and activists on what they should say about the election results and the reshuffle. Every time you hear a minister on the television giving their 'personal' opinion, have a look at this and spot the difference. Tough times for Labour – but not the breakthrough the Tories wanted either. We need to work hard together to come through this recession, listen to the voters, and earn back people's trust after the expenses scandal. But if we do that then we can be confident that in a head-to-head with the Tories – where the choice is between a Labour party led by Gordon Brown and determined to stand by people, or a Tory party led by David Cameron that would walk on by when people need help most – then we can go forward from today and win. I think the whole cabinet have found James Purnell's resignation surprising and disappointing. Labour party supporters were out campaigning hard yesterday and this is the last thing they would have wanted to see. James is still in the early stages of his career and I'm sure he'll be back. His decision is the wrong one, as cabinet colleagues have said. I think James has drawn the wrong conclusion for two reasons. First, the public wants to send us a message that after a month of hearing about moats and mortgages and duck houses that they are angry about expenses and want them sorted out fast. Second, they are worried about their jobs and want us to return our focus to accelerating economic recovery. Now those are the plans that Gordon Brown is working on and over the coming week he will make sure that he has a first-class team full square behind him. We now need to listen to voters' anger over expenses and to act. The last thing the country needs right now is for the party to turn inward. Faith in politics has been badly shaken and needs to be restored. Families are worried about their homes and jobs and are trusting us to stand by them and bring them through the downturn. It is already clear that these are going to be a tough set of elections at a tough time for the Labour party – we're in the middle of a recession, turn-out is significantly down, people are clearly angry about expenses and as the party of government with the most MPs, it looks like we're feeling the brunt of that anger. There are some interesting results. We've won seats from the SNP in Scotland and held seats in places like Hastings where the Tories might have been expected to advance – meanwhile the Tories came seventh in the Hartlepool mayoral election. Tough times for Labour but not great for Cameron either. Voters who are angry about MPs flipping homes or cleaning their moats on expenses are staying at home or voting for minor parties – but they are not switching in great numbers to the Tories. The Tories got 44% last year, when the local votes are projected into a nationwide vote. This time they're predominantly in their heartlands but they don't appear to be lifting off from that result. That tells us that Labour need to respond to people's concerns but in a head-to-head we can still win the fight with the Tories. It's hard to translate European and local election results into consequences for a general election. In 1989, when we were in opposition, Labour won the European elections – but lost the 1992 general election. In 2004, Labour were down to 22% – but we beat the Conservatives in the elections the following year. Sunday's national results will tell us a bit more. Anything less than 36% for the Tories means that David Cameron is falling short of where William Hague was in 1999. They had 27 MEPs last time – it will be interesting to see if they get many, many more. Going forward: in the coming weeks we will set out wide-scale plans for cleaning up politics and accelerating our recovery and reforming public services. Q&A James Purnell's resignation? I am obviously disappointed about James's resignation. The prime minister and the rest of the cabinet are absolutely focused on the big challenges of cleaning up our politics and getting Britain back to work quicker: • How we guide the economy through the downturn and strengthen it for the future. • How we push ahead with reform of and investment in our public services. • How we renew trust in our democracy and parliament. It is sad that James has gone but we get on with the job of helping people through this downturn fairly. The PM will continue to give his undivided attention to addressing these great challenges facing our country and putting the interests of the British people first and foremost. John Hutton resignation? John is going to step down as an MP at the next election for personal reasons. Really sad to see him go – he's done a fantastic job. Whole party will thank him for his contribution over the years at Dept for Health and at BERR, and particularly for his recent leadership at the Ministry of Defence, where, in the most challenging times, he has overseen the end of combat operations in Iraq and supported our troops in bringing security and stability to Afghanistan. Time to change leader? Right now we face the two great challenges of this era – an economic crisis that has engulfed the world and caused global recession; and a political crisis that has engulfed Westminster. In Gordon Brown we have someone not only with the economic leadership and experience to tackle the global recession and to steer us through the downturn but with the integrity and determination to sort out the challenge of MPs' expenses. Has Labour been worst hit by expenses row? The vast majority of MPs work terrifically hard for their constituents and have been appalled by some of the wilder stories about moats or swimming pools. All agree that we need to take action now to restore faith in parliament. It's important to remember that the expenses crisis is not just confined to government but to all parties – and even David Cameron has had to answer questions about his two mortgages. What about resignations from Jacqui Smith and Hazel Blears? Sad to see them leave – both have an excellent record. As home secretary, Jacqui has cut crime, introduced the tough Australian points-based immigration system, and rolled out neighbourhood policing across the country. And as communities secretary, Hazel has led reforms in local government and ensured that we've had better local services as well as the lowest average council tax increase in 15 years. What are you doing on expenses? The vast majority of our MPs have worked terrifically hard and are doing an excellent job. They didn't come into politics to get rich but to help people and all of them are determined to restore faith in parliament. The old system is dead. An independent-led body will now check the claims of every MP over the past 4 years. We have agreed that in future MPs should no longer set their own pay, allowances or standards of conduct, and that these should be handed over to independent regulation. MPs' allowances are being stripped right back: • No more claims on moats or swimming pools – no claims on furniture, household goods, gardening, cleaning, or stamp duty. • No more "flipping" or avoiding capital gains tax. • Mortgage claims only on interest and capped at a maximum of £1,250 a month. • No more London MPs claiming second homes. • No more second home allowances for those in grace-and-favour homes. • And no more secret second jobs. Don't we need a general election? Neither of the two great challenges we face – the economic challenge and the political challenge – would be solved by an election. And the last thing the country needs is for Labour to be talking to itself. That is why the prime minister and the cabinet are focused on the big challenges that matter to the British people: cleaning up our politics and getting Britain back to work quicker. Why are the BNP winning in places? BNP success down to three things: first, gut reaction of voters wanting to punish main parties; second, very low turnout; and third, their deliberate strategy of attempting to gloss over their racist nature. That means all main parties, not just Labour, need to listen and respond to voters' anger over expenses; encourage people to get out and vote – which they will do in greater numbers at an election; and all of us need to uncover the true face of the BNP, who are led by a man with convictions for inciting racial hatred. Many of the people who've voted for BNP are not racist and I think many of them would be appalled by the nature of that organisation as it begins to show its true face. Do you accept part responsibility for rise in BNP? The BNP are a fascist party – our parents and grandparents fought a world war to defeat what the BNP stands for. There is a duty on all parties to fight the values of the BNP. We've campaigned hard and the PM was out on Monday directly addressing the threat of the BNP – quite unusually for a sitting PM. The Tories are saying that Labour is to blame for the rise in the BNP – are they right? No. We would much rather be fighting the Tories in white working-class areas but in many of the places targeted by the BNP there has been no sign of the Tories since Margaret Thatcher in the mid-80s. We know that it tends to be unemployed men who are most likely to vote for the BNP – that's why it is so important that we reach out to that group – for example, we are giving a guarantee of a job or training place to every young person out of work for more than a year. Instead of trying to get some kind of party political advantage out of this, the Tories should be setting out what they would do to help the unemployed in white working-class areas, instead of ignoring them. Background facts Most of the seats are in county council Tory heartlands – and the last time we fought them was on general election days when turn-out was much higher – so our expectation is low The councils up for election are predominantly county councils in two tier areas (27). The three Labour-controlled councils majority (Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Staffordshire) are all vulnerable. There are also mayorals – although we only hold one out of the four up for election and that in an area the Tories have traditionally held Highlights so far: Labour gain from SNP in Glasgow (Anniesland / Drumchapel Ward). Anne McTaggart wins 2689 - 1698 on second stage of transfers Labour gain from SNP in North Lanarkshire (Coatbridge North and Drumboig Ward). Peter Sullivan wins on several stages of transfers after leading SNP by 37% - 30% of first prefs. Hartlepool mayoral results: First preferences only. Tories beaten into 7th place behind Ukip and the BNP. Lib Dems losing deposit. Results for Hastings: Braybrooke and Castle – Labour hold with 47% of the vote Central St Leonards and Gensing – Labour hold with 40% of the vote Hollington and Wishing Tree – Labour hold with 43% of the vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I'm waiting brown Brown to come out and say Blah blah blah we are listening to the people blah blah and really it was a defeat for the Tories becuase they didn't get 40 % of the vote blah blah and by the way I saved the world blah blah some labour mp the other day even said it shows how good Brown is becuse the world leaders came to a summit to see Gordon Brown and not Cameron .. that will be because the G20 summit is for world leaders , stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted June 5, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted June 5, 2009 Sorry I didn't make that very clear, I consider any effort to increase UK voters influence over our own affairs to be libertarian, in contrast to Labour's attempt to give it away. You may think it, it's not right though. That simply isn't compatible with Libertarian ideals, its just a shifting of power from one place to another, Libertarian would reduce the amount of power the state had. There isn't a single party that has Libertarian ideal as they all want power and libertarians want to reduce the power the state has over the individual Well, there is the UK Libertarian Party (though I don't know if they're standing anyone for election this time around)... On Immigration: Totally free movement of people into the UK is not practical whilst we have a large welfare state and other countries are themselves not broadly Libertarian in nature. In line with the Rule of Law, a transparent, consistent points based system is one of our key proposed measures to humanely manage migration. Our Immigration policy will be points based whilst the State provided Welfare System exists. In parallel, we will establish bilateral agreements with countries to enable free flows of people. Longer term, and in conjunction with the disappearance of our current Welfare System, we are committed to pursuing an open borders policy towards those who would wish to come to the United Kingdom in order to contribute to our (by then) thriving economy and peaceful shores. compare/contrast with the US LP: We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders. However, we support control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a threat to security, health or property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Labour are falling apart, I honestly cannot see how Brown can stay in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Brown called a Press Conference for 1700 today. Resignation, General Election or declaration of emergency powers? In fact it could be to introduce Alan Sugar and his latest project, 'Britain's got Government'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Geoff Hoon resigned now as well Won't be a GE , Brown is too arrogant to give the public what they want .. he's clinging to some hope that green shoots of the economy may start to bud and that the goldfish span attention of the public forgets about the huge government debt etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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