Bollitics: Local & Euro Elections 2009

[kidlewis]

I voted conservative because Gordon Brown is quite possibly the most inept person in the world right now. As Daniel Hannan put it, he is pathalogically incapable of listening to criticism. He either smiles like some kind of coked up ponce or talks to the person next to him about how great he is, or how awesome Stalin was.

[Condimentalist]

yeah i did, out of the idea that if they did well gordon brown might not look upon "british jobs for british people" as an empty promise anymore

as far as im concerned the end justifies the means, i voted BNP which may bring a smile to a few knuckledraggers faces but inevitably gives them the keys to nothing, whilst the people with the power will hopefully question their own policies which for years havent worked

that IMHO makes sense

Labour don't give a toss where the other votes go. They'd probably be more concerned if the Lib Dems gained seats tbh. The BNP getting seats is just bad all round, there's no benefit in it, it just shows the level of ignorance in the British public.

[drat01]

One is a bunch of national socialist scumbags, the other are right wing conservatives probably closer to the Labour Party apart from wanting to opt out of Europe than most of the other parties, now that the Tories have moved to the left slightly and started hugging trees at the weekend

We will freeze immigration for five years, speed up deportation of up to a million illegal immigrants by tripling the numbers engaged in deportations

we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement

[bickster]

Yep, like I said closest to the Labour Party, not the same as the Labour Party. At the minute the Labour Party are probably the most right wing of the centre parties with their draconian ideas on personal freedom so they would be the closest party to UKIP, they vary in terms of policy, sure they do, but they are the closest to each other. In my opinion its only a short hop skip and a jump from the Labour Party to UKIP

[myb]

We will freeze immigration for five years, speed up deportation of up to a million illegal immigrants by tripling the numbers engaged in deportations

we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement

[Awol]

UKIP are far more libertarian than Labour though Bicks. They want to recover our decision and law making abilities to an institution that is solely answerable to the UK electorate, rather than push more of or sovereign rights away to unaccountable eurocrats. For a single issue mob it's a good issue to pick.

[bickster]

UKIP are far more libertarian than Labour though Bicks. They want to recover our decision and law making abilities to an institution that is solely answerable to the UK electorate, rather than push more of or sovereign rights away to unaccountable eurocrats. For a single issue mob it's a good issue to pick.

That has nothing to do with Libertarian, that is just transfering power from one place back to another place and has absolutely nothing to do with Libertarianism. If as UKIP want power was transferred back to the UK can you imagine what Brown and Co would have got up to with our personal freedoms? It really doesn't bare thinking about

[TrentVilla]

UKIP are far more libertarian than Labour though Bicks. They want to recover our decision and law making abilities to an institution that is solely answerable to the UK electorate, rather than push more of or sovereign rights away to unaccountable eurocrats. For a single issue mob it's a good issue to pick.

That has nothing to do with Libertarian, that is just transfering power from one place back to another place and has absolutely nothing to do with Libertarianism. If as UKIP want power was transferred back to the UK can you imagine what Brown and Co would have got up to with our personal freedoms? It really doesn't bare thinking about

Neither does the amount of additional expenses they would have all clocked up in doing so. :winkold:

[drat01]

I think you'll find a whole lot more civil, level headed people across the country who would agree with those policies.

The policies quoted were from UKIP and the BNP - the same for both - you may think that is civil, level headed I beg to differ.

[Awol]

UKIP are far more libertarian than Labour though Bicks. They want to recover our decision and law making abilities to an institution that is solely answerable to the UK electorate, rather than push more of or sovereign rights away to unaccountable eurocrats. For a single issue mob it's a good issue to pick.

That has nothing to do with Libertarian, that is just transfering power from one place back to another place and has absolutely nothing to do with Libertarianism. If as UKIP want power was transferred back to the UK can you imagine what Brown and Co would have got up to with our personal freedoms? It really doesn't bare thinking about

Sorry I didn't make that very clear, I consider any effort to increase UK voters influence over our own affairs to be libertarian, in contrast to Labour's attempt to give it away.

As to what Gordon would do with it, two things: First he ain't going to be around and second, I think a wholesale constitutional reform process is coming to the UK parliament, and Cameron (who is going to win) has already committed to decentralising the power of the PM that Blair and Brown have grabbed and consolidated over the last decade. But before anyone starts screwing around with the constitution any further they need a mandate for reform from the public. General Election please.

[Awol]

I think you'll find a whole lot more civil, level headed people across the country who would agree with those policies.

The policies quoted were from UKIP and the BNP - the same for both - you may think that is civil, level headed I beg to differ.

I'm with you Ian, we need more illegal immigration not less, especially criminals.

[bickster]

Labour's policies on asylum and immigration

The protection of our borders is fundamental to the future of our country. We are committed to building on the progress we have made to create a system in which people can have confidence, which protects the security of the United Kingdom, prevents abuse of our laws, and is fair to both legal migrants and the British public. We are building an immigration system fit for the 21st century, one which benefits Britain.

Key Achievements:

* Asylum applications are at their lowest level for 14 years. The fall has been dramatic from over 80,000 asylum claims in 2000 to around 23,600 in 2006. In 2006, for the first time ever, we removed more failed asylum seekers than those making unfounded claims.

* In 2007, we removed an immigration offender on average, every 8 minutes.

* In April we launched the new UK Border Agency - a single border force combining immigration, customs and visas, with new police-like powers.

* We have tripled the number of staff who work on border control, and enforcement of Britain’s border controls now starts overseas. Since January 2008, we check everyone’s fingerprint before we issue a visa. So far we have enrolled over 1,000,000 people and have matched over 10,000 fingerprints in connection with previous immigration matters

* Since February 2008 rogue employers face civil penalties of up to £10,000 for each illegal worker they employ. Those found to have knowingly hired illegal workers can incur an unlimited fine and be sent to prison.

Winning the fight for Britain's future:

Labour knows that we all want strong borders and a fair deal. That is why in 2008, Labour is delivering the biggest changes to our immigration, citizenship and border security system for decades. Our changes include:

* A new Australian-style points system (which began in February 2008) to ensure only those migrants we need can come to work and study in the UK.

* A single border force to guard our ports and airports, with police-like powers for frontline staff

* Compulsory ID cards for foreign nationals who come here to work or study (starting in Nov 2008)

* New electronic border controls will be counting people in and out of the country by 2010

* In 2008 we will activate powers to automatically deport foreign national rule-breakers. We will confirm our targets to deport more foreign nationals prisoners than ever before. And we will expand our detention estate to lift the number of people we remove from Britain.

* We will introduce legislation to reform the immigration system and set out a new agenda of earned citizenship where the rights and responsibilities of becoming a British Citizen have to be earned. This will ensure that only those who share our values can earn the right to stay by clearly spelling out the rights and obligations of legal immigrants to Britain, as well as the requirements for earning British citizenship - including learning English, paying tax and becoming self sufficient and obeying the law. We will also ask new migrants to pay into a fund to help manage the transitional costs associated with migration.

Not much difference there then, lots of illegal immigrants being deported, so that's the same as the other two parties, its only a short step from no immigration to a points system making it much harder to get in, wafer thin difference in fact...............

[Awol]

The UK Independence Party is calling for a five-year freeze on immigration into Britain and a future policy that would see migrants controlled by a points system similar to that operated by Australia and New Zealand.

Even closer to Labour than I thought on immigration.

Interesting...

[drat01]

Obsession with Labour to justify voting for a party with Racist / ultra right wing tendencies - similar policies to the BNP

Nigel Farage (UKIP MEP since 1999, leader of the UKIP group of MEPs in the

European Parliament since 2004; former UKIP Chairman, 1998-2000 and cofounder,

UKIP) told former UKIP leader Dr Alan Sked “We will never win the

nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us”, according to Dr Sked

Document

Maybe the use of Churchill by both BNP and UKIP was a coincidence

[bickster]

Sorry I didn't make that very clear, I consider any effort to increase UK voters influence over our own affairs to be libertarian, in contrast to Labour's attempt to give it away.

You may think it, it's not right though. That simply isn't compatible with Libertarian ideals, its just a shifting of power from one place to another, Libertarian would reduce the amount of power the state had. There isn't a single party that has Libertarian ideal as they all want power and libertarians want to reduce the power the state has over the individual

[Awol]

Sorry I didn't make that very clear, I consider any effort to increase UK voters influence over our own affairs to be libertarian, in contrast to Labour's attempt to give it away.

You may think it, it's not right though. That simply isn't compatible with Libertarian ideals, its just a shifting of power from one place to another, Libertarian would reduce the amount of power the state had. There isn't a single party that has Libertarian ideal as they all want power and libertarians want to reduce the power the state has over the individual

Poor choice of words on my part, you win

[myb]

I think you'll find a whole lot more civil, level headed people across the country who would agree with those policies.

The policies quoted were from UKIP and the BNP - the same for both - you may think that is civil, level headed I beg to differ.

So it's unreasonable, possibly even racist, to agree with a policy on freezing immigration in a country which seems fit to burst and can't even look after the people already here?

It's also unreasonable to expect that as soon as we discover that an immigrant is an illegal immigrant, that they should be sent packing on the next plane out of the country?

Is it unreasonable to expect that migrants, who come and settle here, then commit criminal offences, are sent home either upon release from prison, or before?

I don't see any issues at all with those policies.

[Awol]

Obsession with Labour to justify voting for a party with Racist / ultra right wing tendencies - similar policies to the BNP

Nigel Farage (UKIP MEP since 1999, leader of the UKIP group of MEPs in the

European Parliament since 2004; former UKIP Chairman, 1998-2000 and cofounder,

UKIP) told former UKIP leader Dr Alan Sked “We will never win the

nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us”, according to Dr Sked

Document

Maybe the use of Churchill by both BNP and UKIP was a coincidence

There are racists in every political party, indeed in every walk of life, sadly. Interesting how many Labour people end up with the BNP for it's far left ideals, despite the parallel racist agenda.

What does that prove? Nothing, much the same as your post.

[drat01]

The party that some now hold so close to their heart and what the did / said since the last election

They must appeal to some?

Obsession with Labour to include in every post to justify support for extreme Right Wing

[Awol]

The party that some now hold so close to their heart and what the did / said since the last election

They must appeal to some?

Obsession with Labour to include in every post to justify support for extreme Right Wing

What they said "forbidden 50 megs"? A confusing message I feel.

Oh and the BNP are extreme left wingers, Ian. If you think UKIP are extreme have a look at the real right wingers in the sacred European parliament.