Jondaken Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Ahhhhh, but that same argument could be used for scientific theory. Where did the big bang come from? There must have been something before for that theory to work. Forget the universe itself, where did space itself come from? The big bang didn't happen in space, the big bang was an explosion OF space. What was before the big bang? Nothing. It's like asking which way is south when you are at the south pole. There was no space and no time for there to be anything in. Answering a mystery with an even bigger mystery doesn't help Science does that far too often. What your saying is, is that something came from nothing. Which according to science, is not possible. Hence you contradict science. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 is that the quote "energy cannot be created or destroyed but can only be transfered"? so what believers think is "energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can only come from God"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 bottom line - if a creationist falls ill - he shouldn't be treated by any modern medicine. Err... all medicine is created by things that where put on this earth to begin with. If a scientist falls ill, he should not be given anything, because what does it matter if he lives or dies? His life means nothing, and neither does anyone elses, so why go through the effort to save a meaningless life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 if they want to be so fundamentally adamant in their opposition to rational thought, and hold such aggressive anti-science positions then there's no shade of grey. No **** scientific benefits. No cherry picking some scientific advancements which don't conflict with the bible - no instead just **** off **** off and **** off, get cancer from those natural non gmo crops, spawn your downs children, struggle under the weight of a huge family on minimal financial assistance, don't use any form of mechanised transport etc.... in short just go amish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant(aka_eddy) Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 bottom line - if a creationist falls ill - he shouldn't be treated by any modern medicine. Will you be refunding their tax bills then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 bottom line - if a creationist falls ill - he shouldn't be treated by any modern medicine. Err... all medicine is created by things that where put on this earth to begin with. If a scientist falls ill, he should not be given anything, because what does it matter if he lives or dies? His life means nothing, and neither does anyone elses, so why go through the effort to save a meaningless life? er....because he will be dead and people will get upset? plus as human beings we have emotional and moral standing to do something about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 is that the quote "energy cannot be created or destroyed but can only be transfered"? so what believers think is "energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can only come from God"? Basically, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Ahhhhh, but that same argument could be used for scientific theory. Where did the big bang come from? There must have been something before for that theory to work. Forget the universe itself, where did space itself come from? The big bang didn't happen in space, the big bang was an explosion OF space. What was before the big bang? Nothing. It's like asking which way is south when you are at the south pole. There was no space and no time for there to be anything in. Answering a mystery with an even bigger mystery doesn't help Science does that far too often. Religion is based on that entire premise though. It is the ultimate in answering a mystery with an even bigger mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 is he the dude that worked out the brain considted of different bits each did their own thing? I think that was Gall ..and to some extent Spurzheim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 bottom line - if a creationist falls ill - he shouldn't be treated by any modern medicine. Err... all medicine is created by things that where put on this earth to begin with. If a scientist falls ill, he should not be given anything, because what does it matter if he lives or dies? His life means nothing, and neither does anyone elses, so why go through the effort to save a meaningless life? er....because he will be dead and people will get upset? plus as human beings we have emotional and moral standing to do something about it? Emotions and morals. Where did they come from? Did they just evolve into a physical body? Where did life itself come from? A rock? Where does the will to survive coem from (aka survival of the fittest) People would care about that man and want to help him, because he DOES matter is what I'm trying to get at. I really do have a million more questions with the only answer I can come up with to any of them, is that God must exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 is that the quote "energy cannot be created or destroyed but can only be transfered"? so what believers think is "energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can only come from God"? Basically, yes. so if he has indeed created all, everything and all that will ever be. He created all religons, therefore all religious beliefs are indeed correct. Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Christians are all correct in their beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villadude Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Watch Nice one, never seen that before It reminded me of that bit in the Devils Advocate movie when Pacino is gobbing off about God... "Guilt is like a bag of **** bricks. All you gotta do is set it down... Who are you carrying all those bricks for anyway? God? Is that it? God?! Well I tell you. Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift and then what does he do? I swear, for his own amusement, his own private cosmic gag reel he sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch but don't taste. Taste but don't swallow. And while you're jumping on one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughing his sick **** ass off. He's a tightass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee-landlord! Worship that? Never!" Makes you think doesn't it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 is that the quote "energy cannot be created or destroyed but can only be transfered"? so what believers think is "energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can only come from God"? Basically, yes. so if he has indeed created all, everything and all that will ever be. He created all religons, therefore all religious beliefs are indeed correct. Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Christians are all correct in their beliefs. No. What he "created" was free will. You believe what you want. You make up stories and tell lies if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Emotions and morals. Where did they come from? Did they just evolve into a physical body? Where did life itself come from? A rock? Where does the will to survive coem from (aka survival of the fittest) People would care about that man and want to help him, because he DOES matter is what I'm trying to get at. I really do have a million more questions with the only answer I can come up with to any of them, is that God must exist Social structures exist due to the entire nature of survival. Mankind, like all species has two aims, that is to survive, and to reproduce. The way to survive is either to be strong as an individual, or to group together in unites that work to ensure the survival of each other. Our morals are there because morals are essential to survival in tribal societies, if you are outcast from society, you die. It is in a tribes best interests to ensure that ALL survive because it increases the groups chance as a whole to survive. If God must exist, then where did God come from, surely for him to exist he must have been created, for your own very argument is that things cannot poof into existence out of nothing, and evolution cannot account for things such as morals and emotions, they have to have been created, therefore surely so much have intelligence, so any intelligent divine being must, by your very arguments, have been created. Or do the rules not apply to your God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 It reminded me of that bit in the Devils Advocate movie when Pacino is gobbing off about God... well if I'm honest all i remember is Charlize Theron's tit's but now you come to mention it I think there was some dialogue in the film as well :-) oh and for my geek alert bit ..one of the Jury members in that film is Beppe from Eastenders ..impressed ... no ..oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted February 17, 2009 Administrator Share Posted February 17, 2009 Ahhhhh, but that same argument could be used for scientific theory. Where did the big bang come from? There must have been something before for that theory to work. Forget the universe itself, where did space itself come from? The big bang didn't happen in space, the big bang was an explosion OF space. What was before the big bang? Nothing. It's like asking which way is south when you are at the south pole. There was no space and no time for there to be anything in. Answering a mystery with an even bigger mystery doesn't help Science does that far too often. What your saying is, is that something came from nothing. Which according to science, is not possible. Hence you contradict science. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy I see your wikipedia and raise you another: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Something_from_nothing specifically the "contradiction" section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villadude Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 It reminded me of that bit in the Devils Advocate movie when Pacino is gobbing off about God... well if I'm honest all i remember is Charlize Theron's tit's but now you come to mention it I think there was some dialogue in the film as well :-) I remember that bit too, at the time I thought she was the fittest bird around, absolutely beautiful IMO. When I saw that movie for the first time I didn't know she got her kit off in it, imagine how thrilled I was when I watched it for the first time! :bonk: Wicked movie to boot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Ahhhhh, but that same argument could be used for scientific theory. Where did the big bang come from? There must have been something before for that theory to work. Forget the universe itself, where did space itself come from? The big bang didn't happen in space, the big bang was an explosion OF space. What was before the big bang? Nothing. It's like asking which way is south when you are at the south pole. There was no space and no time for there to be anything in. Answering a mystery with an even bigger mystery doesn't help Science does that far too often. What your saying is, is that something came from nothing. Which according to science, is not possible. Hence you contradict science. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy I see your wikipedia and raise you another: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Something_from_nothing specifically the "contradiction" section. Theory's. There are a million of those. Most of which prove more than one of the others wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted February 17, 2009 Administrator Share Posted February 17, 2009 Did you bother to read it? However, experiments in support of quantum theory have shown that particles are continually created and destroyed by "fluctuations in the void". Experiments, not theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Did you bother to read it? However, experiments in support of quantum theory have shown that particles are continually created and destroyed by "fluctuations in the void". Experiments, not theories. Yes I read all of it in fact, its still a theory. Both are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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