Flashback

[BOF]

I think the shock of the new

Good point. It could well be that we're something no-one will have encountered this season. But, just like the brand new 'Wildcat' formation in the NFL season just past which was hugely successful in the initial weeks, it is something that teams will surely learn to cope with a bit better certainly when said opposition improves in the big competition.

I secretly hope our blistering pace might just be custom made for CSKA's artificial pitch too :nod:

[sting]

It explains why if you suddenly change half a dozen players (Hamburg etc) it all goes to pot even though the players themselves are good enough

Hi PB. I actually agree with a lot of what BOF has said. I think Villa are a 'one trick pony' at the moment and sooner or later teams will work us out. Our pressing game, if we qualify for the CL, will not work on a sultry night in Spain against the likes of Barca, who will pass the ball around us until we tire! We must also have the option of more players who are comfortable on the ball and can hold onto it for longer periods, especially against the better teams. Thats why i was disappointed that Martin didn't try to sign Arshavin who is technically gifted. It is also the reason why i have been banging on all season for Martin to sign at least one more central midfielder who has enough technical ability on the ball to hold it when under pressure! With the greatest respect to Steve Sidwell, Gardner and Reo-Coker, when he plays in midfield, you wouldn't classify these players as technically gifted and assured on the ball. We are having a fantastic season and long may it continue with our effective football, but we will need a little more technical ability and invention if we are to progress into a top euro team.

PB, im afraid i also disagree with your above comment about the Hamburg game. I have said it before and i will say it again, we lost that match because the players who wore the Villa shirt that night were simply not good enough and the loss of that game was nothing to do with players not knowing how their team mates play! They play together in training matches every day of the week!

[PB]

PB, im afraid i also disagree with your above comment about the Hamburg game. I have said it before and i will say it again, we lost that match because the players who wore the Villa shirt that night were simply not good enough and the loss of that game was nothing to do with players not knowing how their team mates play! They play together in training matches every day of the week!

As that team contained Luke Young, Cuellar, Shorey, Gardner, Sidwell and Reo-Coker is it safe to assume then, if you are correct, that, as these players will all play a key part in the months ahead, that we are doomed? shall we just throw the towel in?

I think I would agree that the payers that night didnt perform to the standard expected of them, but I think that the explanations put forward in this thread offer a vastly more plausible reason for that than "they arent good enough", when the players concerned have shown repeatedly that, despite your statement to the contrary they are,very much good enough. Zat Knight, to submit one example, has been one of our best players this last six weeks. dont you think? Sidwell has been a key element in our rise over the past three months, no? Reo-coker and Gardner are valued versatile squad players, arent they? Etc, etc etc

[sting]

Hi PB. I have no wish to argue with any Villa fan, but i think Martin's attitude towards Shorey speaks for itself. To say that Sidwell has been a key element in our rise over the past three months, is, well unfortunate. Reo-Coker and Gardner valued squad players. Yep, squad players, but no more than that and they showed that against Hamburg. Remember, a 3-0 defeat? Zat Knight, yes he has improved, but his performances needed to. Cuellar performances to date, in my opinion, still dont warrant a reported, 7.5million fee, no-matter where he plays, and Luke young was as poor as the rest of the side that played against Hamburg. However, since then, i'm very glad to see that he has proven a very good experienced signing and is trusted by Martin for his positional sense, covering for, eh, Shorey!

[PB]

Since Hamburg we are unbeaten in 12 games. What part have that hamburg team, that you repeatedly say contains players who arent good enough for the first team's push for the top four, played in those 12 games?

Guzan - Played in 1 of those 12

Young L - Played in 9 of those 12

Shorey - Played in 4

Cuellar - Played in 8

Knight - played in 7

Sidwell - played in 9

Salifou - played in 1

Gardner - played in 8

Reo-Coker - played in 7

Delfouneso - played in 2

Harewood - Played in 1

So you see, I'm struggling a little bit here Ciaran. These players that you claim so confidently arent good enough, have all, to a man, played a role in our long, long 2 month unbeaten run since that day. Six of that team have featured in more than half of the games in that run. How can that be? How can they be not good enough yet key members of this fantastic run? Do you think,maybe, you are missing something that the rest of us can see?

[sting]

Hi PB. You have spent a lot of time here trying to prove what? I believe my opinion is as valid as anyone. You forget to remember that these players collectively formed a very poor Villa team against Hamburg. It was the most inept Villa performance i had ever seen, with no-one and i mean no-one, able to string two passes together. I believe when channel 5 interviewed Martin after the Hamburg match, he promised there would be a better team to represent Villa in the knockout stages! He played this team due to viewing the Hamburg match as a dead rubber! You cannot say that because the players you have quoted above have appeared in various matches and thankfully not together, makes them good enough! These players have been carried by the rest of our Premiership team and have only appeared, sometimes as substitutes, due to the fact we have no-one else! As i have stated in a previous thread, i would view Luke Young as an exception to this, Delfouneso also, who i have a lot of time for. The rest of the players you mention, i believe in the next several transfer windows, may well be plying their trade somewhere else, as Martin will surely add more quality if we make CL qualification!

[PB]

Well, you are clearly entitled to hold your opinion, and I admire the way that you do so in the face of such overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[sting]

Hi PB. Many thanks for your compliment! I think goal assists, goals scored, passes gone astray, media player's points tables and your player's appearance table, only goes to prove one thing. Even though they all come under the term statistics, which you seem to rely so heavily on, they are however, open to interpretation!

I think PB we should now concentrate on the Everton game. It will depend on how important Martin views the F.A Cup, with the russkeys and Guss Hiddink's Chelsea next.

I indeed hope that you are right about our squad PB, as Martin has said everyone will be used over the next several days? I think i will be using my fiancee's spare set of false nails again, even though they are bright pink!! Many regards, Ciaran.

[PB]

I dont think I'm that interested in statistics, what I'm interested in is results, points on the board. I'm not fussed if we deserved this win or that win, I'm not bothered particularly if Alan Green or Alan Hansen scoffs at our chances or our style of play

All I know is that we have 51 points on the board from 25 games. However,the wheels could easily come off as the injuries are really piling up now. We have the sort of injury list that only Man united really could live with. Here's hoping we are able to field something approaching a team in the two matches coming up.

[sting]

Well PB, if our squad is as good as you say it is, then we shouldn't have a problem, but we've lost to Everton already, so hopefully that will be the only defeat we will suffer, with our next two games against the Russians and the blues?

[PB]

Well PB, if our squad is as good as you say it is, then we shouldn't have a problem, but we've lost to Everton already, so hopefully that will be the only defeat we will suffer, with our next two games against the Russians and the blues?

Two points really. if we are missing say seven or eight players (against Everton we were missing Reo-coker, Cuellar,laursen, Heskey,Barry, Bouma and Milner and davies appear to have picked up injuries in that match) then it is unreasonable to expect the squad to cope - especially when three of those players (Cuellar,Davies and Laursen) play in the same position thus meaning we are down to our fifth choice central defender partnering our foruth choice one. Only United could cope with that - Arsenal for example have a considerably shorter injury list and it has hit them pretty hard, according to their manager and fans.

Secondly, squad depth isnt so black and white. There are some players that you simply cannot afford to miss, they are so good, so influential on the teams style of play that their loss from the team is going to be a huge hit. Such players might include Gerrard, Torres, Ronaldo, Van der Saar, Terry, Lampard. In our case, I think there are three players that we would miss and who are irreplaceable, Friedel (my player of the season so far), Barry and Ashley Young. We dont have the players in the squad that can do what these players do, so their loss from the side is always going to hurt, as the loss of gerrard etc from their teams will hurt them.

So,while this is by far the strongest (and most expensive) Aston Villa squad ever put together, the lack of so many players is always going to mean a weaker team is put out, and if any of those key players,e ven one of them are missing we are also likely to perform less well. This we share with every team.

No-one could miss seven or eight players from their squad and hope to beat Chelsea, I would suggest even Manchester United or inter or real madrid would have difficulty with that, dont you think?

[sting]

Hi PB. Thanks for the considered answer. However, i was commenting on your statement that certain squad members were good enough to replace members of our first team! I think all fans should be brave enough to come out and state what they see, instead of making excuses for players, who quite clearly are not up to standard. I will use Steve Sidwell as an example. You said Sidwell was instrumental in our 3 month unbeaten run, before Everton. I personally think, along with Reo-Coker and Salifou, Sidwell has been another poor signing and he is continuing to show why! I also believe Everton's Arteta, showed exactly why we need a creative midfielder. You have got to have creativity available to you in central midfield to open defences and not just from wide areas! Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal all have that creativity in midfield and consequently figure in the top four most seasons! I also feel that Martin should have bought another striker to enable Gabby to have a well earned rest! Nevertheless, I sincerely hope by Sunday night that you and i are celebrating another two wins, but it won't disguise the fact, that certain players in our squad will be plying their trade elsewhere in seasons to come, as they are simply not good enough!

[limpid]

I have to ask; what villa fan calls Chelsea "the blues"?

[PB]

but it won't disguise the fact, that certain players in our squad will be plying their trade elsewhere in seasons to come, as they are simply not good enough!

I dont think you need to be Nostradamus to predict that some of our players will leave 'in seasons to come'

Again, you mention this creative attacking central midfielder. Who are you going to drop for, for example, Arteta? Barry or Petrov?

[sting]

Eh, Sidwell????

[PB]

Eh, Sidwell????

When we play 4-4-2, Sidwell doesnt play. you may have noticed him being missing recently since we swapped back to using 2 strikers. I know he played against Everton, but that was in Barry's place.

So, Barry or Petrov? or are we going back to just one striker?

[sting]

Hi PB. You now seem to deflect your answers away from my original statement, which was concerning whether our squad members were good enough to cover for 1st team injuries! So since we have settled that issue, you now wish to return to my statement on the need for a bit more creativity in central midfield, which is fine by me.

If you would kindly read my previous thread where i again comment on the need for a creative midfielder, i clearly state, 'creativity available to you in central midfield!'

I see you have now mentioned two different systems, which our team have been playing, according to the players we have available. Thats fine and i'm sure Steve Sidwell will be knocking on Martin O'Neill's door this morning when he finds out he won't be playing whenever we use a 4-4-2 system! I actually thought Martin had dropped Sidwell due to his level of performance, but then again you seem to think the mistakes he has been making, makes him a reason for our three month unbeaten run! There are many different systems whereby, you can incorporate different types of players. It has already been commented on by other Villa fans on this website, that we need to be able to play different systems to suit different opponents, especially in Europe. Man U generally play a different system in Europe to suit whatever opponent they may have. It is therefore reason to expect, is it not, that we must also have a squad to deal with teams in Europe who will need a bit more invention from us to break them down and indeed in our very own Premiership. We don't necessarily have to play with one striker, or 4-4-2 to incorporate a creative midfielder PB, but then again, we could do. So your above question therefore doesn't really apply, as the addition of a creative midfielder to our small squad which you have already admitted is struggling with injuries, would simply give us a lot more options!

[PB]

Sorry, Sting, i stopped reading there where you wrote about ISdwellbeing dropped because of performance (which is only partly true) because you are making things up to suit your argument, so I'm going to end this debate now with the following list of facts that anyone who watches Villa will agree with

Aston Villa play 4-4-2 whenever possible. This has been the case since the first half dozen or so games under ONeill

Carew got injured and the manager didnt trust Harewood so we swapped to 4-5-1 from the Ajax match onwards - Sidwell came into the team in place of Carew,

Every man and dog talked of the need to buy at least one new striker so we could swap back to 4-4-2

meanwhile, we went off on a long unbeaten run, playing 4-5-1 with Sidwell in midfield and Gabby up front on his own, which is what I meant by Sidwell playing a key role.

In January, we signed a striker,which everyone (bar you apparently) understood to be our main priority so that we could stop playing in the one dimensional 4-5-1 counter attacking way (that you had previously been so dismissive of despite its effectiveness) and return to the 4-4-2 we had always played before. a formation which suits our players much better

The very first match that heskey was available, we reverted to 4-4-2, with Sidwell making way, and we have played that formation in every game since

Sidwell returned to the side against Everton because Barry was suspended - the team still played 4-4-2 - you might have noticed both carew and Agbonlahor on the pitch at the same moment - this is the clue

So, if you want to put a creative player into central midfield, then you need to lose one of the two current central midfield players - Barry or Petrov. or, you can drop someone like Ashley Young, or Milner, or one of the strikers and play a different formation. You cant just pretend this issue doesnt exist. Who willyou drop for your creative player? The player you drop, by definition, needs to be in the team, so you cant drop Sidwell because he's already dropped.

Your refusal to grasp these facts makes it impossible to take anything else you say seriously. Sorry.

[sting]

In January, we signed a striker,which everyone (bar you apparently) understood to be our main priority so that we could stop playing in the one dimensional 4-5-1 counter attacking way (that you had previously been so dismissive of despite its effectiveness) and return to the 4-4-2 we had always played before. a formation which suits our players much better

Hi PB. Would just like to refer to the above quote you have made, i would assume in temper mode. I have actually mentioned in many previous threads while answering posts by John Cresswell, the need for us to purchase a new striker. I indeed mentioned many names, such as Cruz from Blackburn and had spoken of my wish for us not to sign Heskey, due to his goals ratio and injury record! This was before we only paid 3.5million for him, which in the circumstances, is a fair bit of business! As you have also read my post on Arshavin, who also plays as a striker, then how could i not understand our priority for a new front man? I believe i also commented on my disappointment that Martin didn't buy another striker to give Gabby a well earned rest! I have also, never been 'dismissive' of the way that we play. I did however comment on my wish at some stage for us to be able to hold onto the ball better in midfield, whenever we are under pressure! PB, i also don't 'make things up' to substantiate any opinion of mine, as i never would and certainly don't need to. I also haven't refused to grasp your argument. I simply have my own opinion, which you disagree with and that is fair enough! I feel anyone's opinion is valid and should be respected, if explained clearly, which i have done on numerous occasions on this website.

Consequently, i am sorry that you will not take further comments from me seriously. Maybe i should just agree with your opinion and everything would be ok? Not to worry PB, my fiancee never listens to me either!