The General Election / General politics topic (End Nov 2008)

[tonyh29]

this seems the best summing up of it all that i've read so far

To be ordered at the age of 54 to stand on your head for almost an hour while dancing on the grave of an unfortunate young lady called Prudence is simply not fair, and Alistair Darling proved unequal to the mental gymnastics required for such an ambitious display

The Chancellor lacks the superhuman shamelessness which would be needed to recite with any conviction the long list of bribes and wishful thinking with which his masters - Lord Mandelson and Gordon Brown - hope to pave the way to a general election victory next June.

It is to Mr Darling's credit that he cannot believe this kind of thing, but we fear Lord Mandelson and Mr Brown will be looking around for someone who can.

But as we watched the Chancellor going over the top and vanishing into the battle smoke, we could not help feeling indignant on his behalf. What kind of a monster sends his friend and subordinate off on a mission of this kind?

We do not know how this statement will fare in the wider world, but in the Commons it was an abject flop.

[tonyh29]

OK some of this will be got back but it was perfect for what is needed now

i believe the phrase is

He's giving £20 billion in giveaways and taking back £40 billion in extra taxes

[snowychap]

for tax payers we are around £250 a year better off for basic rate payers, OK not great but at least we are

??

Please explain.

[thetrees]

OK some of this will be got back but it was perfect for what is needed now

We have had weeks of news about people worried about money, paying their heating bills, feeding and clothing their kids.

Brown's answer?

Cut VAT, a cut that doesn't affect heating bills, food, or kids clothes.

Brown's message is clear.

Let the kids freeze, send them out in rags, and starve them, just make sure that you go out and buy another plasma TV.

After all, we must keep Chinese manufacturing buoyant

[Jon]

Labour, it is sad we dont have a genuine party for the working man anymore though.

dissapointed in that Budget, it has to be said.

More could have been done for the less well-off. The VAT thing IMO does not really benefit low earners at all, in any real way.

I'd suggest Dev that if you're really looking at a party to represent the "working man", Lib Dem might be closer to home.

And that is, IMO, a shame on Labour, who now appear to be the pary of business/middle england.

[TrentVilla]

I've not changed my vote either, it was Labour before and still is.

However, despite the thoughts of some I'm not so entrenched in my beliefs that I'm a Labour voter for life no matter what. If I thought the Torries the more suitable party to run the country I would be in favour of it but at this moment in time I think Brown is more capable of managing the economic situation we find ourselves in.

This though is largelly because like with so many issues I'm yet to actually hear a clear explaination of what the Torries would actually do, if and when I hear some decent policies or views from them I might consider them.

I know one thing the future tax rises to 45% for higher earners aren't that appealing.

[Jon]

I know one thing the future tax rises to 45% for higher earners aren't that appealing.

a true labour policy if ever i saw one, that, and one i agree with fully.

didn't go anywhere near far enough though IMO.

Also, trent, you only appear to discuss the merits of labour or the Tories. what are your thoughts on the lib dem's approach?

[drat01]

I'm struggling with this a bit - I keep hearing that now we have a difference between Labout and the Tory party, but I am struggling to see anything coming out of the Tory party unless it's the whining and frankly pathetic (scripted) rants of Gideon.

Now I know we have some avid Tory party members on here, and some people who follow their policies a lot, and even some who have said they would vote for them etc etc, so can anyone please point to a easy to read, no BS summary of what exactly they would do different? Also what the Lib Dems would do as I think they will be a party of choice for a lot of people at the next election based on the anyone but Labour and Tory party thinking.

Opposition should not surely be just a case of saying oooh that's crap without differing ideas, at an election you have to have an idea of what politics you are voting for - and by the way its a shame more people don't do what Scott (OBE) says and look what their local MP says and does.

A lot of people are just concentrating on the red top headlines here about the cut in VAT, and completely ignoring the changes that are put in place for business, especially small business. The NI changes (to start in 2011?) but very little in the way of mentions of the changes for the lowest paid. The CBI and the Unions seem OK with the changes and it's a shame that the one political party who committed to assist and stand side by side with the government went back on that promise within minutes.

So in the spirit of this thread, what are the alternative budgets set out by the Tory party and the Lib Dems? - with associated costs etc

[tonyh29]

a true labour policy if ever i saw one, that, and one i agree with fully.

tax should be capped ... we all use the same amount of oxygen , we all still dial the same 999 for a lack of response from the police ... I accept not everyone gets the breaks in life and some will never get the chance to earn £150k a year , but a lot that do , do so because they took a risk to achieve it ... If you go into business for yourself , remortgage your house to finance it the risk is all yours ..if it succeeds then good luck to you , if it fails you could loose everything , so I believe you should be entitled to the rewards ....

I'm truly amazed by the responses and this poll ...... after the incompetence , cash for peerages ,ID cards , 42 days , broken promises on referendums..all the crap this government has put as through .. stuff that is deeply unpopular , stuff that people,said I'd never vote labour again for ...and it seems that people within 2 weeks think oh that Brown and Darling will see us through ..."it's not our fault" they cry ..and people believe them ..

I despair really ... we should be on the streets demanding their heads , but instead we just sit back and think never-mind ... Our Chancellor and PM were unable to predict what was going to happen 6 months ago , and yet now they give us a clear prediction to the year 2015 that all will be OK and we trust them !!! ... Yippee all we need to do is survive on bread and water for the next 7 years and then Utopia is just around the corner ..Darling has predicted it :shock:

For what they have done Labour should be on joint last with the BNP and greens on zero votes ..

[drat01]

:-) - some may say desperate rant Tony, and I bet the keyboard took a hammering as you typed that in :-) - I could easily throw back a list even longer about the party political problems that face the Tory party both past and future.

The one thing that this current (world) difficulty has shown to all is that Cameron and Osborne and the rest of the Eton mafia he has surrounded himself with are not up to the job. You yourself would prefer a different man in charge, true? The Tory party have seemingly put all their eggs in one basket of trying to be another Tony Blair and the world and the country has now moved on. If the election is to be won and lost on personality (which as you well know is the basis of the title pop-idol politics and nothing to do with the show despite your attempts recently to link it) then the recent polls would seem to indicate that despite Brown's apparent lack of personal appeal, the slick marketing ploy of Cameron never committing to anything and never really admitting who are your supporters is starting to be seen by the public as a sham.

Maybe the Tory party should look at themselves be honest for once and tell exactly what they would do and why - and most importantly which sector of society they would benefit.

The ones with the most to gain are probably the Lib Dems and if they could get their act together could easily make inroads into both the Tory and Labour support - Not sure they have the will or the know how though, but again they aren't showing many cards yet

[tonyh29]

not a desperate rant more an observation and the keyboard is still in one piece ... I do truly find it amazing that's all .... you couldn't make up some of the stuff Brown has said and done .... Yes I know the economy is crap and I got us in the mess ... but that means I know what i am doing and can get us out .... it's like the gambling addict that believes his 100-1 outsider is just out there and all it has to do is win and all his problems are over ...

I still believe the Tory party will win the next election .. end of the day it will come down to ID cards and the Euro , both of which will bring labour down as they are unpopular policies ... of course Brown could still do another famous U-turn on those but then he has rising unemployment to contend with

Lib Dems are not a credible alternative ..any major party that abstains from a key vote like 42 days is not fit to govern ... I know Brown likes to dither , but the Lib Dems make him look like Speedy Gonzales in this regard

[drat01]

Tony would you like to see a change in the Tory leadership - and by that I mean people like Osborne and a few of the others? I suspect that you are stuck with Cameron. Do the Tory party lack the mix of youth and experience that most people want?

As for the Lib Dems I think they lack a leader. They need to be clearer where their policies will be also because again Cable is falling into the same category as Cameron and just saying negative things without offering alternatives.

[Richard]

The CBI and the Unions seem OK with the changes and it's a shame that the one political party who committed to assist and stand side by side with the government went back on that promise within minutes.

Absolute rubbish and typical Socialist spin over what the situation was.

An agreement on by Partisan approach to a banking rescue is not an agreemtent to stand by and just accept all Labour proposals for the economy of this country when you feel that they are wrong and will in actual fact lead to years of economic misery for a lot of people

[drat01]

The situation was clear and concise Richard as well you know it - Cameron tried to play the look at me card I am one of the good guys only to go back on it within a very short amount of time. Remember the Punch and Judy comments he also made and within days went back on them.

Just have a look at Cameron in Birmingham?

Video

[Condimentalist]

end of the day it will come down to ID cards and the Euro

Are you back on the Euro again? There are no plans to join the Euro any time soon Tony, chill.

[tonyh29]

Tony would you like to see a change in the Tory leadership

I've nothing against Cameron , I think he will make a good PM .... I just think that Duncan would make a better one .. for one I think he would appeal to lib dem voters but I also think a lot of labour voters would be swayed by him .. of course his homosexuality may count against him and loose him some votes

Osborne is a smart cookie ... it's obvious by Labours hatred and obsession with him that they are worried by him

[Santa_Rosa]

I'm not sure. Always voted Labour in GE's in the past, but the war and ID cards will stop me this time. Don't really know what the Tory party stands for at the moment, but I don't think I could cope with Cameron in charge and Osborne at the purse strings. My ex-miner grandad would turn in his grave if I voted for them anyway. Probably the Lib Dems then, dy default as much as anything. Is that a better option than the spoil though?

[drat01]

Osborne is a smart cookie ... it's obvious by Labours hatred and obsession with him that they are worried by him

I can't speak for Labour only myself, but I think he is just poor. His first real major test was yesterday and he was frankly lacking. His scripted response - see Cameron mouthing the words in the background - and his inability to offer alternatives add to his liability factor (see what I did there :-) -). He lacks credibility for most people and the polls would suggest I am in the majority (for once) with that opinion.

Cameron for me is a figure head with nothing below him. The Tory team isn't there - They are a bit like Man City, been in the shadows for a long time of a team in red, now funded by foreigners, one star player who many have doubts about and fail to deliver

[omariqy]

I would normally vote Labour and probably still would but I would consider voting for Lib Dem if they stood up for themselves a bit more and were more outspoken. I could never vote tory and couldnt bear having cameron in charge of this country.

[Demitri_C]

all i know is god help us in a couple years when labour decide they want to recoup all the money they would have lost by cutting vat, and taxes. knowing them they will increase vat to 18.5% or even 19% comapred to the 17.5% we are currently on. this will put us in a worser position than we are now.

as for taxing the rich im sure we will see alot more rich immigrating after this announcement