economic situation is dire

[snowychap]

...get screwed by the unfair 50p rate.

Why is it 'unfair' and a 40% rate, say, isn't?

Or is 40% 'unfair', too?

p.s. And whilst we're on about tax payments: Vince Cable fined for failing to pay £25,000 tax on time. :oops:

[thetrees]

...get screwed by the unfair 50p rate.

Why is it 'unfair' and a 40% rate, say, isn't?

Or is 40% 'unfair', too?

p.s. And whilst we're on about tax payments: Vince Cable fined for failing to pay £25,000 tax on time. :oops:

I think that taking over 50% of any portion of earned income is unfair.

40% as a higher rate is about fair. The threshold for paying the higher rate I also have no issue with. The erosion of personal allowance over a certain income level is petty and grossly unfair, a grubby grab that typifies the previous government.

[snowychap]

I think that taking over 50% of any portion of earned income is unfair.

Why do you think it 'unfair'?

Is your wording 'earned income' of relevance? I.e. is it intentional to exclude the problem of the 'marginal deduction rate' for people at the lower end of the income scale?

The erosion of personal allowance over a certain income level is petty and grossly unfair...

Doesn't that affect people within the 40% band (over £100k) proportionally much more than those above the £150k mark?

[thetrees]

I think that taking over 50% of any portion of earned income is unfair.

Why do you think it 'unfair'?

Is your wording 'earned income' of relevance? I.e. is it intentional to exclude the problem of the 'marginal deduction rate' for people at the lower end of the income scale?

The erosion of personal allowance over a certain income level is petty and grossly unfair...

Doesn't that affect people within the 40% band (over £100k) proportionally much more than those above the £150k mark?

I can't answer your first question as I am not au fait with the 'marginal deduction rate' as it does not affect me or any of the people that I employ.

In answer to your second question, yes, I think that is the case. My argument is that everyone should be entitled to a personal allowance, particularly as those paying higher rate already contribute a higher proportion of their earnings.

I have no problem with taxation, but I think that it should be fair to all.

[snowychap]

I can't answer your first question as I am not au fait with the 'marginal deduction rate' as it does not affect me or any of the people that I employ.

Well, it's part of the whole poverty trap problem where the marginal rates of deduction (rather than specifically a marginal rate of taxation because it combines the paying of salary/wage taxation - both income and NI - and the withdrawal of benefits) are huge for those at the lowest end (I imagine they may be increased in and around the child benefit withdrawal threshold, too, now).

In answer to your second question, yes, I think that is the case. My argument is that everyone should be entitled to a personal allowance, particularly as those paying higher rate already contribute a higher proportion of their earnings.

Your argument for an across the board entitlement to a personal allowance isn't an argument against a 50% tax band, though.

It's an example of where the tax system may be viewed as grossly unfair (perhaps 'rather unfair' might be more appropriate). The unfairness, though. is on those in the 40% bracket when compared to those in the 50% bracket, isn't it?

I have no problem with taxation, but I think that it should be fair to all.

Isn't that what people normally say when they complain about the amount of tax that they pay?

[VILLAFC2000]

never mind the 9 billion in Gold what about the 100 billion per year we loose each year through tax evasion....?

What complete and utter bollocks. £100m - it's a fraction of that.

Reduced it by a factor of 1,000, just with the stroke of a keyboard. That's accountants for you.

You have no idea what we lose through taxdodging. Or do you? And if so, how?

Do you have a view about the loss to the economy from tax fraud?

Come on, give an original viewpoint for once.

Says Mr Cut and Paste from UK Uncut.

Anyway, the thing about tax evasion is that it's illegal activity, s.

Nope you have got that one wrong Tax Evasion is Illegal.

[Chindie]

...Thats what he said.

[PieFacE]

[Risso]

Where do you even begin with that?

[VILLAFC2000]

I know labour did some good things. I think that not all that Tories do is good and not all that Labour do is bad. But you have to make a Judgement call on Election day and in the main I side with the Tories

Why is that...?

When a party comes in power and out of all the first policies they can come up with the very first is a tax break for the ultra rich, instead of saying the first thing we want to do is to improve Hospitals, School and Crime then you kind of know who they represent.

When you see a male dominant, elitist, super wealthy cabinet made up from Bullingdons finest, you know whose interests they are going to represent. Its certainly not for the majority of hard working citizens in this country.

When you here that they are not going to touch the NHS and then push through plans to privatize it....?

Students university fees increased from3k to 10k.

Record unemployment levels.

Double dip recession

ect ect

The unemployed, youth and vulnerable did not cause this recession the bankers did and yet who are paying for it the most.

All thanks to the Tories..!

No I think that Labour have good points. And I dont vote Tory just because it's not Labour. Thats blind bias in my opinion, just like my dad voted labour so I should. I dont care if they are in the Bullingdon club. For god sake man John Prescott was a local mp. He had no control over the english language, he was in a safe labour seat. He was elected time after time and became a multimillionaire, putting his offspring in government houses paid for by the tax payer. Having spoken to the man, without the unions he would have still been waiting tables on a ferry, so dont give me the Bullingdon club bit. I just think they are crap with the economy.

I am old enough, just, to remember

Wilson going on TV for the"pound in your pocket "speech

The Dennis Healy IMF grab,

The Dennis Healy, my mini budget

The James Callghan "crisis what crisis"

and the Gordon Brown and Prudence, whatever happened to her, "No more boom and bust (except it was the 5th biggest ever boom and the biggest ever bust)

I think that covers most labour administrations

Conservatives always lose power because people are fed up with them

Labour always lose power because they have buggered the economy

well thats my opinion

The point is with regards to the bullingdon crew:-

1.) They are totally on a different planet when it comes to understanding and representing most of the people in the country - they have got no idea what it is like being an average hard working person - no idea what so ever.

2.) They represent the 0.5 % richest people in society so they will look to put these people first before any one else. They have the nerve to come out and say we are all in it together - .....! When people were being made homeless, unemployed, and university fees were going up. Cameron was in Italy in the summer sipping his finest champagne and truffles as was Gideon who was in California - what have they had to give up....?

The point is the Torie party do not genuinely represent the people of this country.

You could argue that there are people in Labour from privileged backgrounds. I would argue generally speaking the that there are not as many. You will see more women, backgrounds and ethnic minorities represented than in the Tories party. Thats a fact.

John Prescott was not fed with a sliver spoon and I am sure a lot less doors opened for him as there was for Cameron and Co. Camerons God father got him his first high profile job for a top marketing firm when he had no experience what so ever. Prescott had to work a lot harder for his success and yet you single Prescott out for being in the wrong.

Cameron fiddles £ 700 in expenses and he got of with it Scott free, compared to some one looted 2 bottles of water and they got jailed for 2-3 months. Zero tolerance when it suits them

The Tories party represents the richest in society it really does. Dont believe everything you read in the daily mail...!

[colhint]

So why have more people voted Tory in the last 50 years than have voted Labour, is that because they are all rich or could it be they may represent them better

[drat01]

So why have more people voted Tory in the last 50 years than have voted Labour, is that because they are all rich or could it be they may represent them better

What a totally ridiculous thing to say.

In the past 15 years more people have voted Labour then going by your flawed logic, and considering that most of the electorate are still alive as opposed to your 50 year "rule" that must make it more meaningful

The reality is simple and is being shown on a daily basis - we saw it again today re the advisor to Cameron who is advocating the removal of basic workers rights re dismissal - the Tory party is funded heavily by a lot of people who in anyone's world would be classed as wealthy. For that favour they are rewarded by a Tory Gvmt with preferential laws and policies.

The Tory party has always hated things like the NHS which they see as cost and favour the pay as you go model. Hannan is a voice piece for the real Tory supporters and we saw by his comments to the Americans what the thought process is.

This Gvmt is a shameful one because so many of the Tory right wing attacks are being propped up by the LibDems. The country did not vote in a Tory majority but by the actions of the LibDems and their shameful willingness to support the Tory led policies we are suffering from one.

On a more general note re economics, how much longer can Gideon keep his job? Again today we saw a lot of condemnation for what he says and his policies. These policies are now becoming dangerous

[VILLAFC2000]

People are un-politicized and are un-educated when is comes to politics. If you asked the average person what the difference is between right wing and left wing. they would probably start talking about A.Young and J.Millner

When you have the right wing press media (The Daily Fail, The Torry Graph, The sun, The express and SKY ect) churning out bias on a DAILY basis, then its kind of easy to see where people get there guidance from.

Plus more people are actually left wing in this country than right wing if you take in to consideration all votes.

[VILLAFC2000]

So why have more people voted Tory in the last 50 years than have voted Labour, is that because they are all rich or could it be they may represent them better

What a totally ridiculous thing to say.

In the past 15 years more people have voted Labour then going by your flawed logic, and considering that most of the electorate are still alive as opposed to your 50 year "rule" that must make it more meaningful

The reality is simple and is being shown on a daily basis - we saw it again today re the advisor to Cameron who is advocating the removal of basic workers rights re dismissal - the Tory party is funded heavily by a lot of people who in anyone's world would be classed as wealthy. For that favour they are rewarded by a Tory Gvmt with preferential laws and policies.

The Tory party has always hated things like the NHS which they see as cost and favour the pay as you go model. Hannan is a voice piece for the real Tory supporters and we saw by his comments to the Americans what the thought process is.

This Gvmt is a shameful one because so many of the Tory right wing attacks are being propped up by the LibDems. The country did not vote in a Tory majority but by the actions of the LibDems and their shameful willingness to support the Tory led policies we are suffering from one.

On a more general note re economics, how much longer can Gideon keep his job? Again today we saw a lot of condemnation for what he says and his policies. These policies are now becoming dangerous

good post 8)

[VILLAFC2000]

Heres a nice stat for YOU.

The top 1% earners in the world own 80% of the world.

Do you think that is fair do you want that to stay the same....?

The Tories want that to stay the SAME and Labour and the liberals what to change that...!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnserZOf1-4

[VILLAFC2000]

So why have more people voted Tory in the last 50 years than have voted Labour, is that because they are all rich or could it be they may represent them better

This should also answer your question...!

Not all poor people vote and if they did vote for their interestd, they WOULD NOT VOTE TORRY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnserZOf1-4

[snowychap]

1.) They are totally on a different planet when it comes to understanding and representing most of the people in the country - they have got no idea what it is like being an average hard working person - no idea what so ever.

Sorry to pick up just on this but what is this obsession with the outcome for the 'hard working'?

What about lazy people and people who work normally?

It's effortist. :winkold:

[colhint]

So why have more people voted Tory in the last 50 years than have voted Labour, is that because they are all rich or could it be they may represent them better

What a totally ridiculous thing to say.

In the past 15 years more people have voted Labour then going by your flawed logic, and considering that most of the electorate are still alive as opposed to your 50 year "rule" that must make it more meaningful

The reality is simple and is being shown on a daily basis - we saw it again today re the advisor to Cameron who is advocating the removal of basic workers rights re dismissal - the Tory party is funded heavily by a lot of people who in anyone's world would be classed as wealthy. For that favour they are rewarded by a Tory Gvmt with preferential laws and policies.

The Tory party has always hated things like the NHS which they see as cost and favour the pay as you go model. Hannan is a voice piece for the real Tory supporters and we saw by his comments to the Americans what the thought process is.

This Gvmt is a shameful one because so many of the Tory right wing attacks are being propped up by the LibDems. The country did not vote in a Tory majority but by the actions of the LibDems and their shameful willingness to support the Tory led policies we are suffering from one.

On a more general note re economics, how much longer can Gideon keep his job? Again today we saw a lot of condemnation for what he says and his policies. These policies are now becoming dangerous

what a totally ridicoulous thing to say. Using your flawed logic you didn't read my earlier post when I was commenting on All of the Labour Governments in my Lifetime.

And why is it a shameful government. And why are the LibDems shameful. Just because you don't agree with them, doesn't make it shameful.

As for George Osborne if he screws the economy as much as Brown he should go.

As for policies which are dangerous, well the last lot took us into an illegal war, when British troops died, now thats dangerous.

[tonyh29]

Plus more people are actually left wing in this country than right wing if you take in to consideration all votes.

shame that the major parties in this country are neither

interestingly the Tory vote in 2010 was roughly the same vote that Labour received in the 2001 election to earn them 413 seats and more than labour won a majority with in 2005 (355 seats)

but ultimately past votes count for bugger all , 2010 is all that really counts and in that regard Labours scorched earth policies turned the voters away from them in record numbers

as for this working man bollocks as someone has already pointed out ..where you in a coma since 1997 ?

[drat01]

So why have more people voted Tory in the last 50 years than have voted Labour, is that because they are all rich or could it be they may represent them better

What a totally ridiculous thing to say.

In the past 15 years more people have voted Labour then going by your flawed logic, and considering that most of the electorate are still alive as opposed to your 50 year "rule" that must make it more meaningful

The reality is simple and is being shown on a daily basis - we saw it again today re the advisor to Cameron who is advocating the removal of basic workers rights re dismissal - the Tory party is funded heavily by a lot of people who in anyone's world would be classed as wealthy. For that favour they are rewarded by a Tory Gvmt with preferential laws and policies.

The Tory party has always hated things like the NHS which they see as cost and favour the pay as you go model. Hannan is a voice piece for the real Tory supporters and we saw by his comments to the Americans what the thought process is.

This Gvmt is a shameful one because so many of the Tory right wing attacks are being propped up by the LibDems. The country did not vote in a Tory majority but by the actions of the LibDems and their shameful willingness to support the Tory led policies we are suffering from one.

On a more general note re economics, how much longer can Gideon keep his job? Again today we saw a lot of condemnation for what he says and his policies. These policies are now becoming dangerous

what a totally ridicoulous thing to say. Using your flawed logic you didn't read my earlier post when I was commenting on All of the Labour Governments in my Lifetime.

And why is it a shameful government. And why are the LibDems shameful. Just because you don't agree with them, doesn't make it shameful.

As for George Osborne if he screws the economy as much as Brown he should go.

As for policies which are dangerous, well the last lot took us into an illegal war, when British troops died, now thats dangerous.

so basically you admit that your logic is totally flawed, thats a start. As for your illegal war, interesting as most of the tory party voted for it plus moaned that it did not go far enough when it all kicked off so again good to see your logic there.

The lib dems have sold their soul to support a gvmt whos policies were not wanted by the majority of the people, so yet again good to see how simple logic wins the day.

Interesting again that a tory supporters only defence is to mention labour, its as though you have no real belief in hat this bunch of crooks are up to hence the need to deflect