ianrobo1 Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 problem is Ali the current supplies were brought in at the high prices, the much lower prices will be seen when the supplies for Feb onwards are brought, remember supplies are brought in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 FIX THE PROBLEM Is anyone actually trying to do that, though? What countries, governments, etc. are trying to do is ameliorate the effects of a recession/depression. That's all well and good but if we, all of us, kid ourselves that this is fixing the problem then I think that is a mistake. I have two main fears. Firstly, by lessening the current impact, we probably sow the seeds for the next bust, possibly accentuate the suffering felt then and mabe hasten its arrival. Secondly, when things turn round (as they will at some point), no one will want to address the problem(s) which sped us into our current fix. Proper amounts of regulation will be seen as hindering the shoots of recovery, people will largely forget the lessons they ought to have learnt (as they did the last time, as they will the next time) and we will be so happy to be through the bad times that realism will once again be dismissed as pessimism. totally agree snowy the problem is that do you go for a state controlled market (oxymoron I know) or a totally deregulated one after all as Bush said the free market has worked since WWII so why change it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 luckily it appears with Oil nearly a third of the price it was in January we will be seeing priuce cuts, one company has already announced this Who? SSE have hinted that there may be price cuts early next year but that definitely depends on the continuing downward trend of wholesale prices. link 18 November 08 Price Drops Very Unlikely Until At Least January And Maybe March After recent drops in oil prices by 33% and wholesale gas prices by 25%, there have been increasing calls for energy suppliers to drop prices. Unfortunately, the suppliers have signalled that they are unlikely to drop prices until at least January and have given no guarantees of dropping prices at all. Last time price cuts were announced, in 2007, most came into effect in March and April after the cold winter period had passed. What Suppliers Have Said... In the Express today it is reported that Scottish & Southern Energy have said that they hope to drop prices in the New Year, ScottishPower that they will need to see a more sustained drop in wholesale prices before they take action and E.ON have said that they have no plans to change prices at the moment. Many consumer groups & politicians have reacted in dismay and anger. While wholesale gas and electricity prices are well down on the summer peaks, they are still higher than this time last year. The New Year may bring gas price drops but may not bring electricity price cuts. This is because electricity wholesale prices are still about 50% up on last year. Gas is about 30% up on last year. Over the last year household gas prices have risen by about 50% and household electricity prices by about 25% increasing average bills to a record £1,308 a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 problem is Ali the current supplies were brought in at the high prices, the much lower prices will be seen when the supplies for Feb onwards are brought, remember supplies are brought in advance Ian, please read my post above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I've just been told by my work that due to extreme economic circumstances, i will earn £6,900 less in 2009, than current!!!! :evil: not much i can really do or say about it, not the right time to be looking for a new job. My salary will go back to normal in 2010 apparently... so i suppose thats better than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Surely its a matter of being both pro-active and reactive? Ali has made a good point about the Oil and Power costs that are contributing all around the world. I am seeing this as a major push in cost justification - you get the impression it's sod the green effect lets lower costs. You get the impression from people who should know that there will be a move towards larger companies, consolidation. This will leave a market hole then for smaller start ups and there is a feeling that the old phrase of invention out of necessity, will be a major factor in the coming years. The Banks have got a major part to play in this and need to remove the profit only ideal they have played to. The emerging market place is a key one, and something a lot of big companies are allocating people to :wink:. But the key to those is that they need the established market places to be healthy or they can't and wont progress. Basically the league has been expanded and there are more players - maybe that will even things out a bit more and the high profile of certain countries and markets will be curtailed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 all good points Ian because none of us quite know what will happen. Take the lower energy costs will this stop the drive for green and new energy that a lot believe will be the foundation of our economy in the coming decades ? Actually there are great opportunities out there but as you said the banks will not lend the cash required so what can bring them out of their cautious approach, they have the backing of governments now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villal Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 it doesn't help when things like this are going on Nov. 10 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve is refusing to identify the recipients of almost $2 trillion of emergency loans from American taxpayers or the troubled assets the central bank is accepting as collateral. Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said in September they would comply with congressional demands for transparency in a $700 billion bailout of the banking system. Two months later, as the Fed lends far more than that in separate rescue programs that didn't require approval by Congress, Americans have no idea where their money is going or what securities the banks are pledging in return. more on link.. The bailout money was supposedly to kick start the economy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahamaad Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Last time price cuts were announced, in 2007, most came into effect in March and April after the cold winter period had passed. How convenient. The greed of these energy companies is unbelievable. Thing is especially is terms of gas prices - which have gone up on an almost exponential basis compared to oil - means the cost of heating your home and workplace is likely to go up rather than down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 One thing is for sure - we do not want to see a harsh winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 The greed of these energy companies is unbelievable. absolutely and there is justified argument that more in the way of control is required, especially on price fixing. We saw the profits that Shell and BP made, obscene considering the circumstances the world faces now, add to that the energy providers and the healthy profits they will no doubt posts soon and you start to see some of the reasons why people are starting to feel the pinch. With my job one of the benefits is that you get a slightly different perspective on things in that I can and do get to speak with people in similar roles as myself all around the world. It seems that in most if not all countries there are similar problems to those we face in the UK and typically they will be from the same sectors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 One thing is for sure - we do not want to see a harsh winter. Sods law will say that we will Global warming may say otherwise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Last time price cuts were announced, in 2007, most came into effect in March and April after the cold winter period had passed. How convenient. The greed of these energy companies is unbelievable. The energy companies are undoubtedly greedy. Please don't take the same simplistic view of energy supply, costs and prices as Ian(robo) has done, though. ... the cost of heating your home and workplace is likely to go up rather than down.Yep, the cost of heating this winter will be substantially higher than last winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 One thing is for sure - we do not want to see a harsh winter. Sods law will say that we will Global warming may say otherwise! I have no idea about the accuracy of long range weather forecasts or the site from which I have taken this but a forecast says: Overall, current indications are that winter 2008/9 will be close to or slightly above the long term average in terms of temperature, with a mild February outweighing any negative anomalies during December and January. Rainfall across the season is forecast to be close to average, with northern regions more likely to be above the average. However, snow is on its way in the next couple of days, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 However, snow is on its way in the next couple of days, apparently. Luckily we have a 4x4 :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 it doesn't help when things like this are going on Nov. 10 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve is refusing to identify the recipients of almost $2 trillion of emergency loans from American taxpayers or the troubled assets the central bank is accepting as collateral. Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said in September they would comply with congressional demands for transparency in a $700 billion bailout of the banking system. Two months later, as the Fed lends far more than that in separate rescue programs that didn't require approval by Congress, Americans have no idea where their money is going or what securities the banks are pledging in return. more on link.. The bailout money was supposedly to kick start the economy a bit confused but this extra money is coming from the Fed is not tax payers money is it ? whereas the $700m is however the lack of transparency on this is shocking so no wonder a lot of people will not deal with American Banks, hence things have not been kick started, they are not being honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 GuysI know the energy situtation is 'interesting' but this is about general economic situation and I do not believe in this context a detailed discussion of energy policy is needed. Suffice to say high energy costs do not help at all however we have substantial decreases in petrol with now Petrol 90.5p/l at the local Asda, I won;t moan that diesel is 15p dearer !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 GuysI know the energy situtation is 'interesting' but this is about general economic situation I think the high domestic energy costs and the harshness of the winter are very important when discussing the potential effects of any tax cuts. It is quite possible that any cash given away might well be swallowed up by spending on energy bills and not be spent on the high street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 GuysI know the energy situtation is 'interesting' but this is about general economic situation and I do not believe in this context a detailed discussion of energy policy is needed. Suffice to say high energy costs do not help at all however we have substantial decreases in petrol with now Petrol 90.5p/l at the local Asda, I won;t moan that diesel is 15p dearer !!!Disagree Ian because the cost of energy is a key element to what is affecting the general person on the street, rue, strasse etc and is certainly a part of the issue Why have bank mortgage cuts if your fuel / energy bills are going to be higher just to pay for the inflated profits of these companies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 except Ian the costs are coming down, we are seeing rapid and quick deflation not seen before in our lifetimes now admitting that the costs are still high for the next couple of months this is not effect of the growth before the recession and not the recession I would say that for the majority security of job is far more importnat now not at all belitting the trouble some will be in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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