Unions

[sharkyvilla]

Wasn't sure where to ask this, I'm new to being in a union, if the membership chose to reject a pay deal but I voted for it, I assume I'm still expected to go on strike?

[blandy]

16 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

Wasn't sure where to ask this, I'm new to being in a union, if the membership chose to reject a pay deal but I voted for it, I assume I'm still expected to go on strike?

It goes in steps. The company and the Union negotiate. At some point those negotiations come to a stop and the company makes their offer. The Union then puts that offer to their members, normally with a recommendation (either to accept or to reject it). Then there’s a sounding out the members, either at local reps meetings with members, or more recently by email. The Union will then take that feedback from the members and go back to the Company (either “looks like members are happy with that”, or “we had 90% of the members up in arms”), next, the company might amend their offer, or stick with it…etc. Then at the end of that stage is a mass meeting of the Union members to vote on the final pay offer, presented in writing along with the Union (committee) stance. It sounds like you’re just past that stage and the members collectively rejected it.  It doesn’t make any difference how you personally voted from now on.  The next stage is, again, either talks resume or if the company refuses to talk further, then a vote for industrial action. That needn’t be a strike, necessarily- it could be refusing to do overtime, or working to rule or some other steps short of a strike(s).  There has to be a vote for industrial action. There has to be a audited, electoral society controlled vote before strike(s) can take place. If, after all that there are to be strikes there’s still an opportunity for arbitration by ACAS, for example. But if that still gets nowhere, then yes Union members should and need to stick to what their Union has voted to do. If you don’t, the Union is completely **** and the employees are **** too, because the company will know the employees will not stand up for themselves when push comes to shove. If there’s a strike it means one of 3 things: 1. The company is shockingly run or 2. The Union membership collectively are incredibly stupid or 3. Both of the above. It’s normally 1.

In well over 30 years, I’ve never got to the “strike” stage.

[Demitri_C]

40 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

Wasn't sure where to ask this, I'm new to being in a union, if the membership chose to reject a pay deal but I voted for it, I assume I'm still expected to go on strike?

Im with unison and ill be honest they have been utter garbage. I might cancel my membership 

[sharkyvilla]

4 minutes ago, blandy said:

It goes in steps. The company and the Union negotiate. At some point those negotiations come to a stop and the company makes their offer. The Union then puts that offer to their members, normally with a recommendation (either to accept or to reject it). Then there’s a sounding out the members, either at local reps meetings with members, or more recently by email. The Union will then take that feedback from the members and go back to the Company (either “looks like members are happy with that”, or “we had 90% of the members up in arms”), next, the company might amend their offer, or stick with it…etc. Then at the end of that stage is a mass meeting of the Union members to vote on the final pay offer, presented in writing along with the Union (committee) stance. It sounds like you’re just past that stage and the members collectively rejected it.  It doesn’t make any difference how you personally voted from now on.  The next stage is, again, either talks resume or if the company refuses to talk further, then a vote for industrial action. That needn’t be a strike, necessarily- it could be refusing to do overtime, or working to rule or some other steps short of a strike(s).  There has to be a vote for industrial action. There has to be a audited, electoral society controlled vote before strike(s) can take place. If, after all that there are to be strikes there’s still an opportunity for arbitration by ACAS, for example. But if that still gets nowhere, then yes Union members should and need to stick to what their Union has voted to do. If you don’t, the Union is completely **** and the employees are **** too, because the company will know the employees will not stand up for themselves when push comes to shove. If there’s a strike it means one of 3 things: 1. The company is shockingly run or 2. The Union membership collectively are incredibly stupid or 3. Both of the above. It’s normally 1.

In well over 30 years, I’ve never got to the “strike” stage.

Cheers for that.  We've already balloted to strike, the company then asked us not to reveal the result publicly to protect the share price while offering a new deal, the union recommended to us to accept the new deal but 51% rejected it.  If I'm being honest I think we're been very greedy but I guess participating in the strike is the right thing to do for future years.  It doesn't help when some union reps themselves go round telling people to reject it when they collectively said to accept it, so they aren't really setting a good example.

[blandy]

9 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

Cheers for that.  We've already balloted to strike, the company then asked us not to reveal the result publicly to protect the share price while offering a new deal, the union recommended to us to accept the new deal but 51% rejected it.  If I'm being honest I think we're been very greedy but I guess participating in the strike is the right thing to do for future years.  It doesn't help when some union reps themselves go round telling people to reject it when they collectively said to accept it, so they aren't really setting a good example.

Crikey, that’s a very narrow margin. If individual reps are doing that, make a note of which ones and come re-election time for reps, vote against them would be my stance. It’s one thing to express a personal opinion “I don’t think the deal is all that”, but it’s another to encourage members to vote not to support their own Union reps’ collective recommendation. Edit, I just re read your post and it’s important to clarify that (generally) most union reps aren’t part of the negotiating team, there’s a specific negotiating committee, so if the ones you mentioned weren’t part of the committee, then I take it back to an extent.

[dAVe80]

57 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

Cheers for that.  We've already balloted to strike, the company then asked us not to reveal the result publicly to protect the share price while offering a new deal, the union recommended to us to accept the new deal but 51% rejected it.  If I'm being honest I think we're been very greedy but I guess participating in the strike is the right thing to do for future years.  It doesn't help when some union reps themselves go round telling people to reject it when they collectively said to accept it, so they aren't really setting a good example.

OK, I'm coming out of self exile to reply to this, after I spat my dummy out and said I wasn't going to post on this thread anymore. As an aside, I did wonder a while back about stating a union related thread. 

Your local reps should normally be there to parrot the recommendations from HQ, however if they work in the same job as you, it's their payrise under negotiation too, so understandably that may bring mixed emotions. The best case scenario is you all stick together at this point, but that obviously easier said than done. Once there's a decision to take industrial action, you should prepare to do so, if asked (hopefully things get sorted before that happens). One of my life rules is never to cross a picket line. In the balance of power, it's pretty much all the employees have now, and even then the Tories have done everything they possibly could to make things as difficult as possible. Withholding your labour is a fundamental right, and doing so isn't to be taken lightly. It isn't much fun, even though standing on a picket can give you a massive lift. Consider the fact you're going to lose pay. Depending on how big your union is, you may get some money from a strike fund, but you're still going to be down. If that's going to be difficult, try and make some provisions for that, I'd say. 

Good luck, and absolute solidarity ️

[sharkyvilla]

21 hours ago, dAVe80 said:

OK, I'm coming out of self exile to reply to this, after I spat my dummy out and said I wasn't going to post on this thread anymore. As an aside, I did wonder a while back about stating a union related thread. 

Your local reps should normally be there to parrot the recommendations from HQ, however if they work in the same job as you, it's their payrise under negotiation too, so understandably that may bring mixed emotions. The best case scenario is you all stick together at this point, but that obviously easier said than done. Once there's a decision to take industrial action, you should prepare to do so, if asked (hopefully things get sorted before that happens). One of my life rules is never to cross a picket line. In the balance of power, it's pretty much all the employees have now, and even then the Tories have done everything they possibly could to make things as difficult as possible. Withholding your labour is a fundamental right, and doing so isn't to be taken lightly. It isn't much fun, even though standing on a picket can give you a massive lift. Consider the fact you're going to lose pay. Depending on how big your union is, you may get some money from a strike fund, but you're still going to be down. If that's going to be difficult, try and make some provisions for that, I'd say. 

Good luck, and absolute solidarity ️

Cheers, I'm pretty sure they'll have a meeting to thrash it out on Monday and offer something else.  As we work for an airline it seems like there is a more militant group who want to hold the company hostage around the summer holidays knowing we can cripple them.  I've mentioned to a few people what we've turned down and I can tell they're thinking 'what a bunch of greedy words removed' so I'm keeping it to myself now.  At least we get £70 a day for going on strike so I think I'd better strike if needs be.