The Independent

[Condimentalist]

I hate the Independent. The people who set it up were complete b••••••s and nothing has changed my opinion since.

Do explain.

It is my paper of choice, usually, unless I particularly want to read about sport, in which case I'll get the Times, although that has gone downhill since Martin Samuel left.

[PauloBarnesi]

The people who set it up were working for a family friend (long gone) and whilst drawing pay weren’t doing any work whilst lording it about setting up the Indie. It probably did have a glory period when it started, but gradually the reason for it to exist has disappeared. Its a pale shadow of itself now, and I am sure its not long for this world. The idea of an independent paper is a good one, but I am not sure this is it.

[mjmooney]

Remember The Independent being launched in 1986. I liked the idea of it, bought a few issues, but found it dull and went back to the Guardian. Never looked at it since.

Now I only buy the Guardian on Saturday - I read the football pages of the sports section, the review pretty much from cover to cover, dip into the main section and the magazine (which TBH is mostly a load of wank), and do the cryptic crossword. That's the entire extent of my relationship with the printed newspapers.

[blandy]

I'm chuffed to bits that it's got some money behind it now.

It was going down the pan and the relaunched version is already a load better than the previous version. I buy it 5 days a week, but recently had just been doing so out of habit, but maybe I'll get a subscription.

As to Paulo's point about the people who run it, I don't know any of them, and I don't care. The paper is back towards how it was when it was at it's best.

I'll read the Guardian, but somehow it's not "me". The indie just feels comfortable, somehow. And Mark Steel's in it every week.

[Dodgyknees]

I don't buy any papers anymore, I don't trust any of them. Any suggestions?

I hate hate hate stories about celebrities and anything to do with popular culture.

I love good sport stories, proper views on our country and the world.

Any ideas!?

[The_Rev]

I still prefer The Guardian as my newspaper of choice. The iPhone/iPod touch app is teh sex (and the Android one is even better) and I maintain The Guardian's website is second to none. Great paper, and in a similar area politically to The Independent. I just wish they made a version which wasnt **** huge, the "Berliner" format is an improvement on the old broadsheet design, but I would much prefer if they just followed suit and put out a tabloid or "compact" format.

I still have no idea why people read shite like The Sun, The Mirror and The Express, they are **** awful rags and I assume the fact that they are a dirt cheap way of passing a 15 minute tea break is the reason for their popularity. For sports coverage though, The Guardian and The Times are light years ahead of everything else out there.

I know I havent talked about the Indie much here, but like most Guardian readers I guess I tried it for a month and just went back to The Guardian when I got sick of reading about the **** rainforests.

**edit**

Reading about newspaper format/size names lead to a five minute tour abound Wikipedia, and ultimately to this page. Do any other VT'ers have their own entry on Wikipedia?

[Gringo]

*Bump*

Anyone buying the new look indie?

I like it a lot. The viewspaper (crap name - I know) is a welcome addition.

Hopefully they'll be able to add a few more columnists in the near future.

I really don't like the new format. Why hide all the columnists in the pull out when they used to be part of the news sections.

[chrisp65]

I'll probably pick up a copy tomorrow. Rarely by a 'paper anymore, but if I do it's the Indie.

Not necessarily my views throughout, but that's a good thing. I find individual contributions can have different opinions whereas with so many papers there is a wiff of towing a party line.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Quality paper but isn't it going free? Or a hell of a lot cheaper?

That russian bloke who took over that there london paper owns the Indie now and wants to do the same thing to it, but that'll probably mean more advertisements which may detract from the quality.

[blandy]

I still prefer The Guardian ... in a similar area politically to The Independent....I got sick of reading about the ...rainforests....

I would think the rainforests and environmental issues is one area where they are quite different, politically. I also think that this [from the Guardian] is where they are different, politically

no other paper regularly publishes such a wide range of opinion, ranging from Dominic Lawson and Bruce Anderson on the right, through Hamish McRae and Adrian Hamilton around the centre, to Steve Richards on the centre-left, Johann Hari and Yasmin Alibhai-Brown on the quite-a-bit-more-left and Mark Steel on the very-left-indeed.

[Xela]

I don't buy a newspaper very often but if I do (usually on a weekend) then it's either The Indie or The Times. I do prefer the Indie though.

[Gringo]

*Bump*

Anyone buying the new look indie?

I like it a lot. The viewspaper (crap name - I know) is a welcome addition.

Hopefully they'll be able to add a few more columnists in the near future.

I really don't like the new format. Why hide all the columnists in the pull out when they used to be part of the news sections.

Oh, and another thing. In the international version of the newspaper, the indie's printers don't include the pullout sections, so the paper in spain has basically lost a third of it's content as they have moved all the commentary into the viewspaper. The grauniad international printers can manage to include two, sometimes even three sections, so why not the indie.

[Reality]

Left-wing sympathising rag.

[Gringo]

Going for the daily mail market?

Why move all the comment into a pullout - and then hire new commentators in the main paper. It feels like a dumbing down of the newspaper - hiding all the serious stuff away from readers in a pull out so it's the (first if you're interested)/(last if you're not) thing you read, but giving them a celebrity writer (think littlejohn, clarkson, etc) rant page back in the middle of the reading through their news so they can nod at some other stereo typed truism.

[RunRickyRun]

Going for the daily mail market?

Why move all the comment into a pullout - and then hire new commentators in the main paper. It feels like a dumbing down of the newspaper - hiding all the serious stuff away from readers in a pull out so it's the (first if you're interested)/(last if you're not) thing you read, but giving them a celebrity writer (think littlejohn, clarkson, etc) rant page back in the middle of the reading through their news so they can nod at some other stereo typed truism.

Why I liked them moving the comment into the pullout is that they beefed up the section, adding a few essays into the bargain. There's definitely a lot more content since the buyout and I don't think the quality as suffered (well, so far anyway).

I'm not a great fan of Burchill but, then again, I wasn't a big fan of Janet Street Porter either (have you seen the bile/shite she now writes in the Mail?). There are enough good commentators to get me by.

[Awol]

Well they've shot themselves in the foot now. That horrible little weasel Johann Hari has been busted for plagiarism (amusingly from the daily Heil amongst others!) and had to return the Orwell prize, been caught out attacking anyone who criticised him under the pseudonym of "David Rose" and is taking an unpaid leave of absence from the Indie until next year to go a journalism course - although it may be a little late for that imo.

Question is why hasn't the Indie sacked this unprincipled little worm on the spot? Not exactly good for their declining credibility as an apparently serious paper..

Journalist Johann Hari returns George Orwell prize after admitting plagiarism

In an article for the Independent newspaper, the paper he works for, the George Orwell prize winner accepted he had done “stupid things” and needed to be held to account.

His errors were exposed after a reader noticed a quote in one of his stories had been cut and pasted from a book. He initially denied plagiarism but further examples of him allegedly recycling quotes were later found on the internet.

In one case, an interview of veteran journalist Ann Leslie, critics said 545 words of his nearly 5,000-word piece came from an article she had written for the Daily Mail.

Yesterday, Mr Hari also admitted attacking his critics online using a pseudonym. A statement issued by The Independent, following an investigation into the claims, said he "admits the central accusations made against him, that of embellishment of quotations/plagiarism, and that it was he who used the pseudonym David Rose to attack his critics".

The journalist said he would be returning the George Orwell Prize, which he was awarded in 2008, and was also taking unpaid leave from the paper for four months and completing a journalism course.

He said: “So first, even though I stand by the articles which won the George Orwell Prize, I am returning it as an act of contrition for the errors I made elsewhere, in my interviews.

“But this isn’t much, since it has been reported that they are minded to take it away anyway.

“So second, I am going to take an unpaid leave of absence from The Independent until 2012, and at my own expense I will be undertaking a programme of journalism training.

“And third, when I return, I will footnote all my articles online and post the audio online of any on-the-record conversations so that everyone can hear them and verify they were said directly to me.”

A spokesman for the George Orwell award said the prize "was returned this afternoon by courier". He added: "The Orwell Prize accepts Hari's withdrawal."

[peterms]

Well they've shot themselves in the foot now. That horrible little weasel Johann Hari has been busted for plagiarism (amusingly from the daily Heil amongst others!) and had to return the Orwell prize, been caught out attacking anyone who criticised him under the pseudonym of "David Rose" and is taking an unpaid leave of absence from the Indie until next year to go a journalism course - although it may be a little late for that imo.

I read his apology piece.

Parts of it looked quite familiar.

[Jon]

Well they've shot themselves in the foot now. That horrible little weasel Johann Hari has been busted for plagiarism (amusingly from the daily Heil amongst others!) and had to return the Orwell prize, been caught out attacking anyone who criticised him under the pseudonym of "David Rose" and is taking an unpaid leave of absence from the Indie until next year to go a journalism course - although it may be a little late for that imo.

I read his apology piece.

Parts of it looked quite familiar.

[Awol]

^ X2!

[mjmooney]

Idiot. I knew how to plagiarise better than that when I was an undergraduate.