Artificial Intelligence

[blandy]

17 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

the thing that makes it different, that it'll be doing the deciding? The management rather than the factory floor. It'd be interesting to see what a decent sized company with an AI CEO would produce rather than an AI tech team.

I think the point is, or the current thinking and morality is, that when it comes to decisions of more significance - whether to drop a bomb, whether to spend a million quid, whether to perform an operation on a patient there will always need to be a SQEP (suitably qualified and experienced person) responsible for that decision. I guess they might often go with the AI recco, or they might sometimes say "no, that's actually unwise, we won't do that because safety/risk/etc."

As an experiment, I guess it's kind of along the same lines or principles as stock market funds run by computer algorithms, which have been in existence a good while. 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

On the bright side used correctly, there is hopefully no reason that given time it might come up with radical solutions to solve human made problems we hadn't thought of.

Spoiler

I mean like hunger or war around the world,  not what to do with Putin and a pineapple,  real things that need a new angle of thought.

Don't forget,  we are sort of guiding it ultimately and the bad stuff just gets flagged and then it learns why the bad stuff is bad etc.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

5 minutes ago, blandy said:

As an experiment,

It would be super interesting to say to it,  you are Churchill the year is 194*.  What do you do etc.  So build a situation test for it and see what it does historically.

Kills Trump,  Goes to Mars,  makes Floela Benjamin Prime minster.  Would be well interesting.

[OutByEaster?]

41 minutes ago, blandy said:

As an experiment, I guess it's kind of along the same lines or principles as stock market funds run by computer algorithms, which have been in existence a good while. 

I have a friend with one of those very good jobs with a big pharma company and he went on an MIT course for AI. It was really interesting to hear him talk about this and how the thing that seems to fascinate the AI people isn't (for want of a better way to put it) better maths, or better evaluation of scenarios and values on mathematical grounds, but something more akin to the way our intelligence develops, in terms of stuff like experience, preference and so on.

They got very excited about disagreement between AI's as a demonstration of progress - the traditional self driving thing about hitting the pensioner on the pavement or the pram on the road or the lamppost that will kill the driver - they love the idea of two different AI's making two different choices and trying to figure out why. What the people there were really driving at was creating problems with no binary answers and encouraging the AI to apply it's own learned values.

Much of it was over my head, but the key from what I could gather from him was that they were very talking about AI as a learning decision maker rather than a better tool.

 

[OutByEaster?]

There is some brilliant stuff on AI from MIT on youtube by the way.

 

[blandy]

3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

the key from what I could gather from him was that they were very talking about AI as a learning decision maker

Of course. That’s the use of intelligence. It’s what it’s for, ultimately, whether in humans or in machines. It is by nature, evolutionary.  I don’t mean to be flippant, but it seems like less intelligent critters have one of “freeze”, “run”, “attack” or “hide” as an instinctive reaction to a threat.  More intelligent critters use their intelligence to weigh up the options and make an informed decision. Those good at it survive and their genes continue and their offspring have the trait…and etc.

So that’s why of course AI boffins are developing AI as a decision maker. Neural networks are more the thing perhaps for just a machine learning to perform a particular task. But anyway, somewhere up above I mentioned having a SQEP responsible and that being a morality/safety thing that “we” put in place.  It’s like an autopilot can land an airliner better than a human, or at least more consistently, but “we” require a Pilot to be in charge, with ability to override the AP. I don’t see that changing (the general principle) for a very long time, both because of the human desire to remain in the loop, but also because liability law and lawyers.  You can’t sue a machine for damages.

[OutByEaster?]

9 minutes ago, blandy said:

It’s like an autopilot can land an airliner better than a human, or at least more consistently, but “we” require a Pilot to be in charge, with ability to override the AP. I don’t see that changing (the general principle) for a very long time, both because of the human desire to remain in the loop, but also because liability law and lawyers.  You can’t sue a machine for damages.

This point I think is key - the thing that was stressed to him most is that what is stopping the technology doing more is the fear of lawsuits - you very much can sue the manufacturer or operator of a machine for damages.

I think there's an old sporting adage, that talent hits targets that others can't hit, but genius hits targets that others can't see - we're approaching the point where AI wants to not just put in accurate shots, but tell us what we should be shooting at, even if we don't understand why.

[blandy]

Zackly. And it’s also a “don’t scare the public” thing “Don’t worry, there’s a pilot/doctor/expert controlling everything”

[blandy]

6 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

you very much can sue the manufacturer or operator of a machine for damages.

Just in case we’re at cross purposes on that bit, manufacturers don’t want to be sued, they want the driver of a car to be sued, not them, if the “driver” let’s auto steering cause a crash. It’s the operator of the machine who gets sued, not the maker of the machine.

[mjmooney]

4 hours ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Makes Floella Benjamin Prime minister. 

She's a Villa fan, so that gets my vote. 

 

[Xann]

Where do you think it's going to go if witless wonders keep handing power to psychopaths, and the market rules?

We're watching Putin throw his own under a bus for his plans of personal glory, just after watching the Brexit PM throw Tory voting oldies under a bus as the chums cashed in.

There's an AI arms race on now, China and America working on how to f**k each other up, whilst corporate interests seek more power. At the same time AI will be looking to squeeze cash out of world markets to satisfy the avarice of those that feel nothing for others.

The theme of little things taking down bigger things, like we've seen with torpedo bombers to man portable missile systems in Ukraine, will continue. Swarms of cheap and smart toys are going to be able to take down a mob in the near future.

This is the world the kids are inheriting, that their parents blundered into.

Anyway, on the audio front there's... 

These learning things just get better.

[Xann]

You seeing how the creatives are likely to get devalued?

Not everyones' child will be able to take the risk to choose the arts, because making a living is going to get more difficult.

It's business.

[Lichfield Dean]

I asked Chat GPT about my band's history it came up with the following (of which none is true). I think it shows just how incredibly unreliable this stuff really is:

Satchel Blue is a British nu-folk band formed in 2005. The band's members include Davey Ray Moor (guitar and backing vocals), Jody Lee Petty (violin and backing vocals), and Ben Trigg (drums).

In 2007, Satchel Blue released their debut album, titled "Stormy Waters". The album was well received and showcased the band's unique blend of traditional folk and contemporary pop sensibilities. The band toured extensively in support of the album, playing shows throughout the UK and Europe.

In 2010, Satchel Blue released their sophomore album, "Fading Light". The album was produced by Ethan Johns, who has worked with artists such as Ryan Adams and Kings of Leon. "Fading Light" continued to showcase the band's nuanced songwriting and intricate musicianship, and received positive reviews from critics and fans alike.

Satchel Blue has continued to perform and record music in the years since "Fading Light" was released, although they have been relatively quiet on the music scene in recent years. Nevertheless, the band remains a respected and beloved fixture of the British nu-folk scene, with a loyal following of fans who appreciate their heartfelt and authentic approach to music-making.

[Davkaus]

There's no arguement about that, they list it as a limitation. It's a useful tool (I use it almost every day now), but if you're using it without verifying its output, you're going to have a bad time.

Quote

Limitations     

ChatGPT sometimes writes plausible-sounding but incorrect or nonsensical answers. Fixing this issue is challenging, as: (1) during RL training, there’s currently no source of truth; (2) training the model to be more cautious causes it to decline questions that it can answer correctly; and (3) supervised training misleads the model because the ideal answer depends on what the model knows, rather than what the human demonstrator knows

 

[blandy]

1 hour ago, Lichfield Dean said:

I asked Chat GPT about my band's history it came up with the following (of which none is true). I think it shows just how incredibly unreliable this stuff really is:

Satchel Blue is a British nu-folk band formed in 2005. The band's members include Davey Ray Moor (guitar and backing vocals), Jody Lee Petty (violin and backing vocals), and Ben Trigg (drums).

In 2007, Satchel Blue released their debut album, titled "Stormy Waters". The album was well received …and received positive reviews from critics and fans alike.

…the band remains a respected and beloved fixture …with a loyal following of fans who appreciate their heartfelt and authentic approach to music-making.

So your band is actually crap, I assume 

[fightoffyour]

1 hour ago, Lichfield Dean said:

I asked Chat GPT about my band's history it came up with the following (of which none is true). I think it shows just how incredibly unreliable this stuff really is:

Satchel Blue is a British nu-folk band formed in 2005. The band's members include Davey Ray Moor (guitar and backing vocals), Jody Lee Petty (violin and backing vocals), and Ben Trigg (drums).

In 2007, Satchel Blue released their debut album, titled "Stormy Waters". The album was well received and showcased the band's unique blend of traditional folk and contemporary pop sensibilities. The band toured extensively in support of the album, playing shows throughout the UK and Europe.

In 2010, Satchel Blue released their sophomore album, "Fading Light". The album was produced by Ethan Johns, who has worked with artists such as Ryan Adams and Kings of Leon. "Fading Light" continued to showcase the band's nuanced songwriting and intricate musicianship, and received positive reviews from critics and fans alike.

Satchel Blue has continued to perform and record music in the years since "Fading Light" was released, although they have been relatively quiet on the music scene in recent years. Nevertheless, the band remains a respected and beloved fixture of the British nu-folk scene, with a loyal following of fans who appreciate their heartfelt and authentic approach to music-making.

Perhaps the AI is correct and you are wrong eh?

[Lichfield Dean]

24 minutes ago, blandy said:

So your band is actually crap, I assume 

Terrible

[Lichfield Dean]

12 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

Perhaps the AI is correct and you are wrong eh?

I have contemplated that...

[Lichfield Dean]

50 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

There's no arguement about that, they list it as a limitation. It's a useful tool (I use it almost every day now), but if you're using it without verifying its output, you're going to have a bad time.

 

Oh I know, it's just hilarious how much it will make stuff up if it isn't in the model. I understand the mechanisms behind it and what its limitations are. I've tried to get it to write Azure B2C custom policy XML templates and it produces stuff that looks entirely plausible but in fact is totally invalid and in fact fictional because there isn't enough data that it's trained on in that area.

It is incredibly impressive though. I just don't know how much deeper it can get, even with increased training sets. It'll never get beyond the fact that it has no inherent "understanding" as it currently is.

[mjmooney]

3 hours ago, Lichfield Dean said:

I asked Chat GPT about my band's history it came up with the following (of which none is true). I think it shows just how incredibly unreliable this stuff really is:

Satchel Blue is a British nu-folk band formed in 2005. The band's members include Davey Ray Moor (guitar and backing vocals), Jody Lee Petty (violin and backing vocals), and Ben Trigg (drums).

In 2007, Satchel Blue released their debut album, titled "Stormy Waters". The album was well received and showcased the band's unique blend of traditional folk and contemporary pop sensibilities. The band toured extensively in support of the album, playing shows throughout the UK and Europe.

In 2010, Satchel Blue released their sophomore album, "Fading Light". The album was produced by Ethan Johns, who has worked with artists such as Ryan Adams and Kings of Leon. "Fading Light" continued to showcase the band's nuanced songwriting and intricate musicianship, and received positive reviews from critics and fans alike.

Satchel Blue has continued to perform and record music in the years since "Fading Light" was released, although they have been relatively quiet on the music scene in recent years. Nevertheless, the band remains a respected and beloved fixture of the British nu-folk scene, with a loyal following of fans who appreciate their heartfelt and authentic approach to music-making.

They sound great, where can I buy the album?