Ratings & Reactions: Southampton v Villa

[Teale's 'tache]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

The “mentally tougher” thing is (IMO) not at all the right phrase or analysis. I completely get the “harder to beat” aspect, but in terms of players mental toughness I think it’s a complete misnomer. They are the same humans they were in November under the previous manager. They have the same brains and so on. They haven’t changed their inherent mental characteristics from weak to tough, or whatever. It’s nonsense. They weren’t weak people, mentally, before. What’s changed is they have been given, both collectively and individually, better plans, better coaching, better tactics, better organisation and as a consequence have confidence and belief in what they are asked to do.  People might say I’m quibbling over terminology, but I think it’s important to identify what has actually changed. To me people saying “oh, this player or that player is mentally weak” is almost always wrong. To me it’s all about embedded belief in what they are doing. If people believe in their task they do it better than if they have doubts in it, or lack evidence that it will be successful. It’s down to the coaches and manager to provide the framework and then the team to work together to apply their skills and efforts to following the plans they’ve been given. And when they do, confidence rises and reinforces the whole thing, until or unless complacency sets in.

TL:DR it’s not mental characteristics, it’s belief in the plan that’s changed

I agree with everything you are saying, when I said we are now mentally tougher, I meant collectively rather than individually, and that kind of toughness comes from having faith in the plan and in each other as you mention. I'm not sure terminologically it's wrong to use the phrase “mentally tougher” in that context, but I'm not about to argue semantics. 

[blandy]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

If you are saying their mental state of mind is being questioned, you would be right......but I think the references are aimed a different things.

Fair enough. Without going back and picking out various posts made about players, individually or collectively, my recollection is some people were questioning the players suitability for the team or club based on their "mental toughness", saying they should be sold, or dropped or whatever because of their (as I read it) "weakness" mentally - their (as I read the claims) "inability" to handle the pressure, or their "crumbling" as players in some games or periods of games - so I read it that people felt they "weren't good enough" because they lacked an essential mentality. So my response (above) was to try and put across that for any player to get through to playing in the top league, they have to be mentally strong, because they have to overcome so many hurdles to get to that level. What (I think) we saw under some management was that the players lacked confidence, lacked belief, lacked direction, were unsure at times of which decisions to make and so on. For now at least that seems not to be happening. Long may it continue.

[blandy]

5 hours ago, TRO said:

I don't think anyone is saying that Pete......I think you are talking in a slightly different context.... I think the references are aimed a different things.

On 08/01/2023 at 19:13, PaulC said:

He seems weak mentally 

On 09/01/2023 at 05:36, WHY said:

I would argue mentally weak as well.

On 10/01/2023 at 09:56, Zhan_Zhuang said:

many have proven time and time again they are weak-minded and average footballers.

On 10/01/2023 at 09:57, duke313 said:

We need to recruit less weak-minded players

On 30/10/2022 at 08:56, AVTuco said:

We overpay for incomplete players who seemingly look value-for-money, but have holes in their abilities. If nothing else, they're mentally weak. Our whole team is.

Those are the kind of posts I was thinking of, Paul. People are of course entitled to their views, and who knows, they might be right, and me wrong. But to me the implication was that players' inherent mentality was/is seen to be a bit feeble, rather than their state of mind being something that is/was affected by the quality of coaching and so on.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

1 minute ago, blandy said:

Those are the kind of posts I was thinking of, Paul. People are of course entitled to their views, and who knows, they might be right, and me wrong. But to me the implication was that players' inherent mentality was/is seen to be a bit feeble, rather than their state of mind being something that is/was affected by the quality of coaching and so on.

I still think I was right to say what I did, we had just lost to Stevenage. Mentally we did just crumble...there have been comments about Villa's mental fragility for years.

My post was literally the day after that Stevenage match...

Emery will get a tune out of them more consistently by focusing on their psychological strength as much as footballing ability.

 

[blandy]

6 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

Emery will get a tune out of them more consistently by focusing on their psychological strength as much as footballing ability.

That's the whole message I was trying to get across - that their state of mind is something that is largely affected by external things (like the Manager) rather than being something that is like how tall someone is or whatever, and there's nothing can be done, other than get rid.

[tinker]

Just now, blandy said:

That's the whole message I was trying to get across - that their state of mind is something that is largely affected by external things (like the Manager) rather than being something that is like how tall someone is or whatever, and there's nothing can be done, other than get rid.

On that day, in that game, a few players  heads dropped and that's another way of saying they was mentally weak. As you have pointed mental capacity can be improved, first thing is to have a plan, a way to play, know what's expected and be shown or told how they can improve.

Emery's attention to detail goes a long way to helping players cope with the stress,  "Yes it's going to be difficult but if we do this then it will help" type of thing. 

 

[Zhan_Zhuang]

20 minutes ago, blandy said:

That's the whole message I was trying to get across - that their state of mind is something that is largely affected by external things (like the Manager) rather than being something that is like how tall someone is or whatever, and there's nothing can be done, other than get rid.

I agree.

There are many aspects that Emery will want to improve upon, mental focus, confidence is all the psychological part of football. Yesterday against Southampton we seemed to have it (For the most part) and it was very encouraging.

Now with better tactics, strategy etc, player IQ will also improve, at times yesterday Villa seemed to have a little swagger about them. It wasn't arrogance, just confidence.

There are many facets Emery will improve upon. Exciting times.

 

[stewiek2]

The commentary yesterday was a joke. They were desperately trying to big up Nathan Jones as some tactical genius who changed tactics and formations constantly in games whilst ignoring that in the other dugout the master of that was quietly conducting things.

They were almost heartbroken when we scored. The biased pricks.

[El Segundo]

Why are some saying we got away with one?  Absolute nonsense.  Clear foul on Ramsey preventing him clearing the ball, how is that soft or getting away with anything?  Their other goal was clearly offside, ours wasn't, correct decisions in both cases.  How is that getting away with anything?     If anything we could argue we didn't get the benefit of the doubt on the penalty claim.   

[Vive_La_Villa]

I take it back. Was a foul for their goal. I was looking at the push, didn’t realise he stepped on him. 

[KevinRichardsonsMoustache]

Probably not relevant to the thread (apologies), but I stumbled across this match report of our home encounter with Soton in 2014

https://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2014/4/19/5630212/aston-villa-vs-southampton-open-match-thread

Quote

Aston Villa vs. Southampton, lineups and open match thread

Couldn’t help but be struck by the utter trash nature of the bench. If we thought our subs yesterday were awful, take a trip down memory lane and look at what we were putting up with in April 2014.

[TreeVillan]

8 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I take it back. Was a foul for their goal. I was looking at the push, didn’t realise he stepped on him. 

Genuinely amazes me how so many people missed this. 

[TreeVillan]

7 hours ago, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said:

Probably not relevant to the thread (apologies), but I stumbled across this match report of our home encounter with Soton in 2014

https://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2014/4/19/5630212/aston-villa-vs-southampton-open-match-thread

Couldn’t help but be struck by the utter trash nature of the bench. If we thought our subs yesterday were awful, take a trip down memory lane and look at what we were putting up with in April 2014.

Southampton's starting 11 was something back then! 

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, TreeVillan said:

Genuinely amazes me how so many people missed this. 

In my defence I was watching it on a dodgy stream so was a little reliant on what the commentators had to say and they kept saying it was never enough of a push to give a penalty so sort of lost focus of the stamp. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Vive_La_Villa

[Vive_La_Villa]

10 hours ago, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said:

Probably not relevant to the thread (apologies), but I stumbled across this match report of our home encounter with Soton in 2014

https://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2014/4/19/5630212/aston-villa-vs-southampton-open-match-thread

Couldn’t help but be struck by the utter trash nature of the bench. If we thought our subs yesterday were awful, take a trip down memory lane and look at what we were putting up with in April 2014.

Forget the bench. Look at the state of the team.

[sidcow]

On 21/01/2023 at 17:06, pete101 said:

Take that, I'd be fair annoyed if I was Southampton fan, really got away with that VAR decision, never a foul

I'm really annoyed as a Villa fan that we weren't given a stonewall penalty

 

[duke313]

7 hours ago, TreeVillan said:

Genuinely amazes me how so many people missed this. 

Including so called pundits paid a small fortune.

[Pelle]

I thought we played rather well. We were definetely in control for large parts of the game and played some really good football. The one concerning thing is our lack of good chances. I don't think we create enough good chances atm. Good enough to win a game like this, but against better teams we need to create more.

On a more positive note we look so much harder to break down. We defend really well most of the time. We only looked a little lost for about 5 or 10 minutes and that's when they "scored". Those who say it was wrong to disallow that goal clearly haven't been treaded on the ankle with a football shoe with studs. It can hurt as... 

I can't agree that they were robbed. They were second best for most of the game. 

Martinez motm for me, but no one really stood out. They were all rather good. I'm encouraged by the performaces from Moreno so far. He hasn't been great, but he's been thrown in to play almost as soon as he got here and is still learning the club, his team mates, the league and the pace of the league and I think he's improving. Once he's settled I think he will be a handfull. 

Now two weeks without football. I hate going out early in the cup.

[fruitvilla]

Rather than a player-by-player account some general observations.

I enjoyed the game, Villa were the better team and deserved the win. Those that claim Villa were lucky, have a point ... we were lucky to have Martinez in goal. If we vote Dibu as the man of the match ... there was a problem. From what I recall the saves came in from Martinez's right.

Generally, the playing out from the back seemed comfortable.

We could break down Southampton's defence. 

Still having problems putting away our nice chances.

The referee was average ... got the big stuff right.

Coutinho? I am far from convinced

[TRO]

On 22/01/2023 at 16:52, blandy said:

Those are the kind of posts I was thinking of, Paul. People are of course entitled to their views, and who knows, they might be right, and me wrong. But to me the implication was that players' inherent mentality was/is seen to be a bit feeble, rather than their state of mind being something that is/was affected by the quality of coaching and so on.

I am in no doubt, That UE has instilled a confidence in the team, many before him could not ( but its still early) through many facets......His organisation, is just one aspect of play, that instills confidence in the team.

I suspect, (and thats all it is), that posters are referring to their ability to capitulate, in games under previous management....I suspect that mental toughness of lack of, reference, will dissipate, as we are winning games.....That winning mentality, appears in our play.

Many things working correctly , cause it......some call it belief, but it comes from within and outside encouragement and Nous from the manager, nurtures it....then the mood changes, etc,etc.

I still think, we have been talking slightly cross views, but who am I to presume what others really think. I think if the environment is not right around you, its easy to feel bad about yourself, and vice versa.

I think when we look at Arsenal and Newcastle, we can see the mental strength they have mustered in their play, from seemingly poor positions in the past.

I have banged the drum on here, about being hard to play against......I am now seeing, that and the mental approach, plays a part in that. I can clearly see a bunch, who WANT to win, and don't want to Lose.

I also think players like Andy Gray, Peter withe had a mental toughness, to drive them on to believing, every time they went out, they would score.....I see it coming back in to our play.

We still have some way to go....but I see a tangible determination in this team, emerging, that could in some quarters, be deemed as mental toughness.

I suspect its all about interpretation Pete......as opposed to different views. I think ultimately, we see the same things.