imavillan Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 anyone know if the new design is available to purchase as a pin badge anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 35 minutes ago, imavillan said: anyone know if the new design is available to purchase as a pin badge anywhere? I imagine you’ll have to wait until pre season for an official one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichfield Dean Posted November 22, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 22, 2022 2 hours ago, The Fun Factory said: 'How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford at all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelgeuse?' I don't know, is it the sort of thing you're likely to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 On 23/11/2022 at 07:08, nick76 said: You may not like it but I don’t get how it’s “small time”. If you mean compared to Real Madrid and Liverpool who are regular winners so are always connected to the competition then fine but a club like us showing we have won it in a small way for something every club are trying to win and many don’t is anything but small time. We don’t play CL football now and unlikely to for some time but that doesn’t mean we should only represent it when we play that competition that doesn’t make sense. I still find it hard that people don’t want to represent the finest point in our club’s history, something many other clubs haven’t done and this small symbol is just a reminder to all we have. Nothing small time in that, it’s very proud mark of our history without flouting it. I just think there are better ways to celebrate our wonderful history than shoehorning a star onto a badge. I think we do pretty well at branding ourselves as a famous old club and I think the crest change pushes us nicely further in that direction, but I don't see the star as an important part of that. The best way for people externally to see us as a famous old successful club will be to win a lot. If we want to be associated with the champions league, we need to play in the champions league. Every Aston Villa supporter already has a deep sense of pride over our history, and the general footballing public doesn't give us anything for something we did 40 years ago. I also think the star doesn't represent anything to people who don't know we've won the European Cup, and even might not immediately click to those who do unless they're specifically aware that it was put there for that reason. So for the majority of people, it's just clutter. Would the badge feel like it's missing something if we took the star off? Would anyone demand it's return? If we want to represent it on the kit, i'd like something on the back collar, or on the hoardings at Villa Park. I just feel like it doesn't need to be there and by putting it there in the current shoehorned way, we're trying to force that part of our branding (that we tasted the ultimate succcess 4 decades ago) which feels small time to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 (edited) 59 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said: Would the badge feel like it's missing something if we took the star off? No but the majority of fans asked for the star to be on the badge so there is overwhelming support for it in the current form in some kind of way. 59 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said: If we want to represent it on the kit, i'd like something on the back collar, or on the hoardings at Villa Park But the badge is used in more places than just the kit and hoardings, it’s on every form of representation from Villa from kits to stationary to stadium hoardings to tv usage. 59 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said: I also think the star doesn't represent anything to people who don't know we've won the European Cup, and even might not immediately click to those who do unless they're specifically aware that it was put there for that reason. So for the majority of people, it's just clutter. Don’t agree at all, any serious football fan understands what a star means from international teams like Brazil for World Cups to club sides like Forest that use it for European Cups. 59 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said: The best way for people externally to see us as a famous old successful club will be to win a lot. If we want to be associated with the champions league, we need to play in the champions league. I agree but we are very far from that and is extremely hard to get into it if we every get close to being back in it at all. In reality there is more of a chance we’ll never get there again in the CL than be there again because the grip and money the elite teams have. we don’t “need” to be associated with the champions league because we will be forever associated with the champions league because we have won it. Our association with the competition will be stronger than many teams that play CL now but who get knocked out in early stages by definition. 59 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said: Every Aston Villa supporter already has a deep sense of pride over our history, and the general footballing public doesn't give us anything for something we did 40 years ago. I agree and we just come from different angles. The majority of fans said they want the star on the badge which the club have done. I understand some people don’t agree and I get their points but I’m just pro star. Edited November 24, 2022 by nick76 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 On 22/11/2022 at 21:33, imavillan said: anyone know if the new design is available to purchase as a pin badge anywhere? If we lucky we might get a free pin badge with our season ticket, to negate the price increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted November 24, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 24, 2022 The problem I have with the star is what happens if we win it again? Ok, yes I’m aware of the teeny, tiny flaw that we’re not likely to win it and even if we did I’m sure we would be too delirious to be particularly bothered about the issue. But presumably the aim is to ultimately be in the position of winning it again, however unlikely that might be. They apparently want this badge to last a long time, which I agree with. My view is that not having a star is more timeless and would assist in the longevity of the new badge. Would we crowbar in a second star somewhere? Below the existing one? Change the brick mosaics that would have been built? Would we stick with the one star and say it represents two European champions wins? Having said all that, I’m not THAT bothered with the star being there. And as I say a discussion about what to do with the second star would be a most welcome problem to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 53 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: The problem I have with the star is what happens if we win it again? Ok, yes I’m aware of the teeny, tiny flaw that we’re not likely to win it and even if we did I’m sure we would be too delirious to be particularly bothered about the issue. But presumably the aim is to ultimately be in the position of winning it again, however unlikely that might be. They apparently want this badge to last a long time, which I agree with. My view is that not having a star is more timeless and would assist in the longevity of the new badge. Would we crowbar in a second star somewhere? Below the existing one? Change the brick mosaics that would have been built? Would we stick with the one star and say it represents two European champions wins? Having said all that, I’m not THAT bothered with the star being there. And as I say a discussion about what to do with the second star would be a most welcome problem to have. In reality, which is likely to be the first that happens? 1) We change the badge again? or 2) We win again and need to add another star? Looking at the history of our badge and most clubs badges they change every couple of decades so the chances are very very high we’ll be on our next iteration of the badge before we win again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 12 hours ago, nick76 said: No but the majority of fans asked for the star to be on the badge so there is overwhelming support for it in the current form in some kind of way. But the badge is used in more places than just the kit and hoardings, it’s on every form of representation from Villa from kits to stationary to stadium hoardings to tv usage. Don’t agree at all, any serious football fan understands what a star means from international teams like Brazil for World Cups to club sides like Forest that use it for European Cups. I agree but we are very far from that and is extremely hard to get into it if we every get close to being back in it at all. In reality there is more of a chance we’ll never get there again in the CL than be there again because the grip and money the elite teams have. we don’t “need” to be associated with the champions league because we will be forever associated with the champions league because we have won it. Our association with the competition will be stronger than many teams that play CL now but who get knocked out in early stages by definition. I agree and we just come from different angles. The majority of fans said they want the star on the badge which the club have done. I understand some people don’t agree and I get their points but I’m just pro star. Why are you so ardent and defiant in your holistic defence of the new badge? I don't get it. Yes it's somewhat of an improvement on what we have but it's not perfect and not everyone loves it, but for some reason everyone who expresses any kind of view that isn't total affirmation gets a rebuttal from you and an argument about why it's great. I'm not trying to silence you but it's a bit weird? I think most people at this point understand that you love it. I'm glad. But I'm curious why you feel the need to try to convince others about its brilliance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 I don’t need convincing by anyone. I like it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 11 minutes ago, est1874 said: Why are you so ardent and defiant in your holistic defence of the new badge? I don't get it. Yes it's somewhat of an improvement on what we have but it's not perfect and not everyone loves it, but for some reason everyone who expresses any kind of view that isn't total affirmation gets a rebuttal from you and an argument about why it's great. I'm not trying to silence you but it's a bit weird? I think most people at this point understand that you love it. I'm glad. But I'm curious why you feel the need to try to convince others about its brilliance? No Villa football to watch, we all love the new manager, the stadium is going to be upgraded, we’ve won 3 of the last 4 games, nothing much else to talk about on the Villa side of the forum at the moment so I guess this is the only Villa thread for major differing views so I probably just end up in here when I look at the Villa side of the forum. I spend most of the last two weeks in Off Topic. So that’s probably why I’ve commented on it in this thread. As for my view on the badge? I guess because it’s hundreds times better than the current badge. It’s the badge that’s been picked by the fans yet some people aren’t happy, it’s going to be our badge for decades. I like people being happy about things and if I can convince some fans the positives about it then that’s a few more people that are happy than before. If I was trying to convince people to be unhappy about it I could understand your point about my posts hence why I understand people disliking my view about Keinan in that thread. But me wanting people to be happy with the badge is surely a good thing? Me, discussing each of individuals concerns on the badge and trying to get them to see the positive side rather than the negative side is surely a good thing? Its not a brilliant badge but it’s a badge that has features that the majority of fans wanted….a round badge, less gold, the full name, a better lion, to be clearer and to have the star. The club have delivered what the majority of fans wanted. It’s hard to ask for more. Yes there are still some issues and some fans versions are better but on the whole the club have listened and mostly delivered. That’s what I love, it’s a fans badge! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted November 24, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 24, 2022 1 hour ago, nick76 said: In reality, which is likely to be the first that happens? 1) We change the badge again? or 2) We win again and need to add another star? Looking at the history of our badge and most clubs badges they change every couple of decades so the chances are very very high we’ll be on our next iteration of the badge before we win again. I think changing the badge again is more likely to happen first. While I also have the sense that the plan is for this new badge to be around for decades to come, I also believe that NWSE have the intention of having the club competing in the champions league within that time frame. Whether that’s achieved is another matter. But I believe the intent is there. Let’s say in 20 years time, they decide to change the badge again. And let’s say by that point we have somehow managed to qualify for the champions league (we haven’t won it, but we’re more in danger of needing a second star). We’re back to the same problem, star or no star for the NEXT new badge. What happens if they change it 20 years from now, but we win it 21 years from now? Change it again? Based on the Villa Live design, the star is on that. So it’s literally going to be set in stone (or more likely brick, but the point remains). So in this scenario our newish building has an out of date badge which has an incomplete acknowledgment of our European exploits. All of this is extremely hypothetical, I sadly don’t think it will matter to us. But ultimately I think if you forgo the star, you don’t have to consider any of this stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 21 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: I think changing the badge again is more likely to happen first. While I also have the sense that the plan is for this new badge to be around for decades to come, I also believe that NWSE have the intention of having the club competing in the champions league within that time frame. Whether that’s achieved is another matter. But I believe the intent is there. Let’s say in 20 years time, they decide to change the badge again. And let’s say by that point we have somehow managed to qualify for the champions league (we haven’t won it, but we’re more in danger of needing a second star). We’re back to the same problem, star or no star for the NEXT new badge. What happens if they change it 20 years from now, but we win it 21 years from now? Change it again? Based on the Villa Live design, the star is on that. So it’s literally going to be set in stone (or more likely brick, but the point remains). So in this scenario our newish building has an out of date badge which has an incomplete acknowledgment of our European exploits. All of this is extremely hypothetical, I sadly don’t think it will matter to us. But ultimately I think if you forgo the star, you don’t have to consider any of this stuff. I think we just change the badge and all related items including the Villa Live design, given we are then Champions League winners it will be a celebratory change. I think because it is such an extreme hypothetical it’s one they probably did consider but so unlikely it was a problem they would be happy to deal with if it happened and not a concern for now or near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted November 24, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 24, 2022 46 minutes ago, nick76 said: I think we just change the badge and all related items including the Villa Live design, given we are then Champions League winners it will be a celebratory change. I think because it is such an extreme hypothetical it’s one they probably did consider but so unlikely it was a problem they would be happy to deal with if it happened and not a concern for now or near future. Yes, I agree it’s very, very unlikely. This is all but hypothetical. I suppose I feel IF we were to win it a second time, winning it a third time is relatively speaking not that far fetched. And therefore we’d have to change it to add star number three. Yes I really am taking my leave in hypothetical land. It’s lovely here. Longevity to my mind means having elements of the badge that we have no want to change. We never want to change the name, we never want to change the claret and blue, we never want to lose the lion. We’re always going to have been formed in 1874. We DO want to win that trophy again. However unlikely it is to achieve that. And therefore we would want more stars. It’s something about the badge we’d always want to alter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 13 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: Yes, I agree it’s very, very unlikely. This is all but hypothetical. I suppose I feel IF we were to win it a second time, winning it a third time is relatively speaking not that far fetched. And therefore we’d have to change it to add star number three. Yes I really am taking my leave in hypothetical land. It’s lovely here. Longevity to my mind means having elements of the badge that we have no want to change. We never want to change the name, we never want to change the claret and blue, we never want to lose the lion. We’re always going to have been formed in 1874. We DO want to win that trophy again. However unlikely it is to achieve that. And therefore we would want more stars. It’s something about the badge we’d always want to alter. I’m just going to enjoy this hypothetical of winning it three times for a bit because I love the idea…just imagine being in that position, that our club once again battled with the elite in Europe and won it a couple of times more….love it!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted November 24, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 24, 2022 On 22/11/2022 at 22:33, imavillan said: anyone know if the new design is available to purchase as a pin badge anywhere? Ah **** if it's like Gerrard then after pre season the pin will be like 50m away from the badge and the lion won't know it needs to go in the circle. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 Have they turned that bastard lion around yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 On 21/11/2022 at 08:04, villa4europe said: Exactly But seriously I think purslow should have got his talksport soapbox out and had a moan ahead of a second attempt at getting the full size star above the badge, make a lot of noise get a lot of attention let people know what we achieved that way and then if they still say no then go with nothing because spreading the message has still been achieved As it is the little star to me always feels like a compromise, its look at us we're a big club who won the European Cup... But we're not so big that we can challenge the FA on where that star can go I'd move the star to the back collar personally Forest have 2 stars on the kit already so not sure it's an issue. I think Huddersfield have 3 stars over the badge or they did a few seasons back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 On 24/11/2022 at 17:54, nick76 said: In reality, which is likely to be the first that happens? 1) We change the badge again? or 2) We win again and need to add another star? Looking at the history of our badge and most clubs badges they change every couple of decades so the chances are very very high we’ll be on our next iteration of the badge before we win again. With Qatari money being suggested to flow into the purchase of more PL clubs, it is going to be much more difficult even to get into the CL, never mind win it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 On 24/11/2022 at 16:56, Mark Albrighton said: The problem I have with the star is what happens if we win it again? Ok, yes I’m aware of the teeny, tiny flaw that we’re not likely to win it and even if we did I’m sure we would be too delirious to be particularly bothered about the issue. But presumably the aim is to ultimately be in the position of winning it again, however unlikely that might be. They apparently want this badge to last a long time, which I agree with. My view is that not having a star is more timeless and would assist in the longevity of the new badge. Would we crowbar in a second star somewhere? Below the existing one? Change the brick mosaics that would have been built? Would we stick with the one star and say it represents two European champions wins? Having said all that, I’m not THAT bothered with the star being there. And as I say a discussion about what to do with the second star would be a most welcome problem to have. its an interesting question, but since I have been a fan, I have seen about 6 or 7 badge changes in about 30 years (some being a tweak of a previous design). If we do win the ECL, then just add another one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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