Do we have a composure problem?

[Marka Ragnos]

I was watching the Leeds match again, more carefully, and then also thinking back to several of our other recent outings, and I'm starting to think we have a team-wide psychological issue. We look and act panicked. It feels like franticness mimicking "intensity" and random movement offered as "work rate," but there's a difference between all these ideals, isn't there? Even Coutinho, someone I expect to demonstrate more composure, seems to be flailing around too much and getting carried away. This general lack of composure has made a player such as Ramsey look comparably calm.

I don't know where all this jittery-style football is coming from, but when I read press accounts of McGinn and Gerrard, I don't hear anything to make me think they're aware of it. So maybe I'm imaging something unreal? I know things move fast in the PL, and Leeds brings that out in oppositions, but I'm not so sure it's coming from the opposition anyway, and it's more than the Leeds outing. Perhaps it's a temporary phenomenon? Could it be developmental? Is it good? In any case, I can't see us really improving and scoring more goals if we don't find a way to maintain some kind of grace under pressure and pick out passes and goals more fluidly or intuitively or at least thoughtfully and to plan. There's obviously a lot to be said for the dazzling force and magic of split-second "one-touch football," but you sure as hell don't just get there just by wanting it to be so.    

[Villarocker]

To be fair, I have a composure problem. I lost it when Stevie G signed on at the Villa. 

[Zatman]

No we have one problem and its a huge problem. Unless the poison is removed it will stay a problem

[nick76]

19 minutes ago, Zatman said:

No we have one problem and its a huge problem. Unless the poison is removed it will stay a problem

Yep, totally agree.  Until we remove the major problem, we don’t know if we have other problems.  I think removing SG will allow a lot of other perceived issues to subside.  Good bad players don’t all suddenly become poor and things like composure make somewhat resolve themselves with better coaching.

[picicata]

Well I certainly lost my composure watching us waste time for time for the umpteenth occasion in the first half on Sunday

[Stephen_Evans]

When I saw the thread title, I did wonder if you meant the fans!

[MaVilla]

Honestly, SG issues aside, i think there are some issues with our players, in that they suit a certain style of play, and its been a problem ever since we came back up.

I think quite a few of our players are back to front players, by this i mean they arent really suited to a slowish, composed, intricate, movement type of game, if they are asked to play like this they try it for a bit, realise they cant do it, and this then leads to panicked humps up the field, then these panicked humps leave other players isolated, and then they panic a bit as they try to scramble, hold the ball, find other players and do something with the ball, most of the panic is self inflicted, due to lack of quality for a certain imposed style.

Its almost like having two sets of players, who's tendencies compete with each other, causing lack of composure on both sides, as one minute they are trying to play intricate/movement football, then someone panics and hoofs it, then this spreads panic/lack of composure, and that breeds more of it.

i think some of our players are suited best to direct football, i wont say hoof ball, but certainly direct back to front football where passing, intelligence, intricate play and composure arent required as much, this isnt derogatory, its a valid style of play, its just imo the style of play they are suited to, ie: Mings, Konsa, McGinn, Watkins, Cash, and to a lesser degree Ramsey & Bailey.

We then have players who arent really suited to direct football, but want to build, pass, move, be intelligent and be intricate (as well as many of them being physically smaller and not at all suited to direct play), ie: Digne, Chambers, Luiz, Kamara, Carlos, Sanson, Buendia, Coutinho, Ings.

Its almost like we havent got a team built around one style, we have almost two polarised sets of players, who prefer entirely different styles, then we lump them in to a team split 50/50 and expect them to play one way or the other, but both sets are unconsciously trying to revert to their natural style, which causes a cluster f*** on the pitch of competing styles, ideas, actions etc, this then imo tends to cause a bit of a mess in terms of play, and this causes poor composure and the appearance of panic.

If you look at quite a few good teams, they have a style of play, and most, if not all of their players can play in that style (as they buy for that style, or try to), it provides consistency and conformity to the style (for better or worse), where as when i see Villa i see a team split down the middle, of two entirely different stylistic sets of players, making a mess of playing in any one single way (ie: we try to play intricate for a few mins, it doesnt come off, then someone reverts to hoof ball, and this then just makes others revert to hoof ball, and we get a self-fulfilling scenario of a visual mess and lack of composure)

I think there is also an issue of physicality versus style, we have the pass and move players, who are generally fairly slight/small, but then the direct players who seem to like to revert to hoofs, but when they do we dont have the players in the team to benefit from the hoof, as a lot of our players are smaller/less physical, or arent good at holding the ball alone, but then we also dont have a full team of players who can play intricate/clever/movement football.

I feel like Villa is a patchwork quilt of competing threads, we just dont have a team built to do one thing, its like someone bought 15 different things as they were unsure what they were trying to do wholistically, then tried to fit it all together in some Frankenstein way, and we end up with what we see.

I just think we are a terribly unbalanced team, a team built without thought to a single style or ethos.

Edited October 5, 2022 by MaVilla

[S-Platt]

We should not lose composure playing at snails pace.

If we were playing fast scintillating football I would accept passes and shots to maybe be off.

Slowing everything down like we do has probably meant the players have mentally switched off.

[MaVilla]

Just now, S-Platt said:

We should not lose composure playing at snails pace.

If we were playing fast scintillating football I would accept passes and shots to maybe be off.

Slowing everything down like we do has probably meant the players have mentally switched off.

not really, if you play at a snails pace, that allows opposition teams to close you down and press the passing lanes, this could then cause your player to panic as a) they are being closed down, and b) their passing lanes are being reduced/removed, which leads to a panic moment and a hoof, or a silly decision.

I see us do this a lot.

Sometimes faster interchange is easier as you arent closed down (all the time) and your passing options arent closed down over time, but ofc its harder as you need a quick brain and to actually be able to pass.

tbh, we have problems with both scenarios with a number of our players, as some just arent suited to intricate/intelligent/movement type play.

[Follyfoot]

Our football under Gerrard is the equivalent of going to Spain and shouting loud and slowly in a bar expecting the non English Innkeeper to fully understand 

 

ONE LARGO BEERO, SI ??

Edited October 5, 2022 by Follyfoot

[villa4europe]

is this aimed at players or fans? because the answer is yes for both, fans have no patience either

how many fans want us to play an old-fashioned brand of football than entails get it wide as quickly and as often as possible and have pacey wingers attack the wings?

we desperately need composure up front but with how modern football is now largely played we need better composure everywhere, starting with mcginn which is pretty much the opposite of his game, we are picking our captain and seemingly 1st choice midfielder based on his hustle and bustle rather than his composure on the ball, but would fans at VP accept a purposeful 50 yard passing sequence in midfield where we keep the ball for 2 to 3 minutes seeing if we can pull the opposition out of position? im not sure thats what VP wants to see 

the next problem in terms of players with villa being not only do we lack the composure on the ball to do that we lack the movement off the ball to do that

 

[AntrimBlack]

I think that the lack of cohesion leads to thoughtless, disjointed football, and under pressure the players tend to scramble about frantically.

No surprise that when there is a lull in the game our players push the ball around and don't have the confidence to take the game to the opposing team.

Nothing that good coaching and playing players in their best positions cannot put right.

But that would require a proper manager.

[est1874]

Yes.

[MrBlack]

Feel it's more a conditioning problem. We've lost so many players to injury. Hamstring to Augustinsson has to be down to conditioning. 

We are letting our subs and reserves get no game time, so when they're needed to play 90 minutes they'll all get injured. 

Gerrard is also crap at managing, and I feel the lack of composure is more an effect than a cause. 

[Tom13]

Players such as Watkins, McGinn, Cash, and Ramsey actually, all lack composure.

Leaving out the likes of Douglas Luiz certainly doesn't help. And Traore, love him or hate him, is certainly composed (at least in the other team's third).

[John]

3 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

Our football under Gerrard is the equivalent of going to Spain and shouting loud and slowly in a bar expecting the non English Innkeeper to fully understand 

 

ONE LARGO BEERO, SI ??

But they always do understand, its when I try to speak in Spanish, that they struggle...

[Digavilla]

4 hours ago, villa4europe said:

is this aimed at players or fans? because the answer is yes for both, fans have no patience either

how many fans want us to play an old-fashioned brand of football than entails get it wide as quickly and as often as possible and have pacey wingers attack the wings?

we desperately need composure up front but with how modern football is now largely played we need better composure everywhere, starting with mcginn which is pretty much the opposite of his game, we are picking our captain and seemingly 1st choice midfielder based on his hustle and bustle rather than his composure on the ball, but would fans at VP accept a purposeful 50 yard passing sequence in midfield where we keep the ball for 2 to 3 minutes seeing if we can pull the opposition out of position? im not sure thats what VP wants to see 

the next problem in terms of players with villa being not only do we lack the composure on the ball to do that we lack the movement off the ball to do that

 

I can’t speak for mid lands fans ,  but in our region we prefer the intricate skill passing /movements type of game, rather than hustler/ rush / wing play type of game.
The table doesn’t lie. What style of play the majority of top teams like Arsenal / City or even Brighton are playing?
Such style , once mastered makes a team performance more consistent. Also , the risk of injury is lesser as players are not tackled when running at high speed etc. 

[Tom13]

8 minutes ago, Digavilla said:

I can’t speak for mid lands fans ,  but in our region we prefer the intricate skill passing /movements type of game, rather than hustler/ rush / wing play type of game.
The table doesn’t lie. What style of play the majority of top teams like Arsenal / City or even Brighton are playing?
Such style , once mastered makes a team performance more consistent. Also , the risk of injury is lesser as players are not tackled when running at high speed etc. 

I'm a Midlander and would definitely prefer the passing and movement possession style. Which region are you in out of interest?

[Digavilla]

5 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

I'm a Midlander and would definitely prefer the passing and movement possession style. Which region are you in out of interest?

I am in Asia , been supporting Villa for 25 years.  

[TRO]

9 hours ago, MaVilla said:

Honestly, SG issues aside, i think there are some issues with our players, in that they suit a certain style of play, and its been a problem ever since we came back up.

I think quite a few of our players are back to front players, by this i mean they arent really suited to a slowish, composed, intricate, movement type of game, if they are asked to play like this they try it for a bit, realise they cant do it, and this then leads to panicked humps up the field, then these panicked humps leave other players isolated, and then they panic a bit as they try to scramble, hold the ball, find other players and do something with the ball, most of the panic is self inflicted, due to lack of quality for a certain imposed style.

Its almost like having two sets of players, who's tendencies compete with each other, causing lack of composure on both sides, as one minute they are trying to play intricate/movement football, then someone panics and hoofs it, then this spreads panic/lack of composure, and that breeds more of it.

i think some of our players are suited best to direct football, i wont say hoof ball, but certainly direct back to front football where passing, intelligence, intricate play and composure arent required as much, this isnt derogatory, its a valid style of play, its just imo the style of play they are suited to, ie: Mings, Konsa, McGinn, Watkins, Cash, and to a lesser degree Ramsey & Bailey.

We then have players who arent really suited to direct football, but want to build, pass, move, be intelligent and be intricate (as well as many of them being physically smaller and not at all suited to direct play), ie: Digne, Chambers, Luiz, Kamara, Carlos, Sanson, Buendia, Coutinho, Ings.

Its almost like we havent got a team built around one style, we have almost two polarised sets of players, who prefer entirely different styles, then we lump them in to a team split 50/50 and expect them to play one way or the other, but both sets are unconsciously trying to revert to their natural style, which causes a cluster f*** on the pitch of competing styles, ideas, actions etc, this then imo tends to cause a bit of a mess in terms of play, and this causes poor composure and the appearance of panic.

If you look at quite a few good teams, they have a style of play, and most, if not all of their players can play in that style (as they buy for that style, or try to), it provides consistency and conformity to the style (for better or worse), where as when i see Villa i see a team split down the middle, of two entirely different stylistic sets of players, making a mess of playing in any one single way (ie: we try to play intricate for a few mins, it doesnt come off, then someone reverts to hoof ball, and this then just makes others revert to hoof ball, and we get a self-fulfilling scenario of a visual mess and lack of composure)

I think there is also an issue of physicality versus style, we have the pass and move players, who are generally fairly slight/small, but then the direct players who seem to like to revert to hoofs, but when they do we dont have the players in the team to benefit from the hoof, as a lot of our players are smaller/less physical, or arent good at holding the ball alone, but then we also dont have a full team of players who can play intricate/clever/movement football.

I feel like Villa is a patchwork quilt of competing threads, we just dont have a team built to do one thing, its like someone bought 15 different things as they were unsure what they were trying to do wholistically, then tried to fit it all together in some Frankenstein way, and we end up with what we see.

I just think we are a terribly unbalanced team, a team built without thought to a single style or ethos.

I feel much the same, about this team.