Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Southampton

[andym]

10 hours ago, TRO said:

Do you think formations are the only thing, to constitute change.

He changed the approach, the mentality....less gungho, injected industry, quicker to the ball, more inclined to mix it....showed a points savvy mindset.

Sorry TRO but this idea that he changed the approach and we suddenly got stuck in last night isn't true. Overall this season we've been no worse than our opposition in the areas of the game that are indicative of the ability to pressure the opposition and to 'mix it':

• Against Bournemouth we attempted less tackles than them, won 1 less aerial and applied way less pressures than them (although they were really sitting back allowing us 2/3rds of the ball so less pressures is no surprise given that huge possession discrepancy)
• Against Everton we attempted less tackles than them, won more aerials and applied less pressures than them (like with Bournemouth they were really sitting back and we had most of the ball).
• Against Palace we attempted more tackles than them, won more aerials and applied more pressures than them.
• Against West Ham we attempted more tackles than them, won more aerials and applied just 3 less pressures than them
• Against Arsenal we attempted more tackles than them, won just 2 less aerials and applied more pressures than them.
• Against Man City we attempted more tackles than them and applied way more pressures than them (although that is just because you are always without the ball against them). Interestingly this was the one game where we were significantly worse at aerials won than the opposition.

Interestingly the idea that we get easily bullied in the air is once again this season a myth (it used to get used to criticise the previous manager, even when we were one of the top teams at defending set pieces)

Our problem isn't that we've been gung ho, it's the opposite; we look awful going forward (just 7 goals scored putting us joint 4th worst, and our xG is second worst), largely because of our stifling 'full backs as the creators' tactics. We don't look a cohesive unit when we have the ball, we look static and bereft of ideas when in the final 3rd. 

Off the ball we can easily be exploited because we have midfielders dropping to cover full backs and then our wide players dropping central to cover them; too many moving parts and all it takes is for one player to be a bit slow in their assignment and it all falls apart. 

10 hours ago, TRO said:

They pressed us, we showed more resistance to the press, than in the earlier games.

Soton's successful pressure % was the joint most against us this season along with Man City and Everton.

10 hours ago, TRO said:

Watkins was holding the ball up better against 2 brutes, and winning more headers....worked damn hard with his running.....how he got one vote, is beyond me.

He did indeed, he did very well given we quite often resorted to just lumping it up to him.

10 hours ago, TRO said:

Mings was once again error free, maybe the captaincy was a shrewd move,after all,  allowing him to concentrate on his own game.

Mings was error free and putting in performances like last night numerous times when he was captain. He still does all the on pitch organising, encouraging etc. The idea that he needed the captaincy removing to concentrate on his own game is rubbish imo. Now it is the managers right to change the captain if he wants, no issue with that. But doing it suddenly right before the start of the season, giving it to someone who is one of the least captain like players in the squad (and imo shouldn't be in the starting XI), and then coming up with a bullshit reason for doing it was very poor management.

[Marka Ragnos]

Just how awful can a fairly unexciting but not especially remarkable grind-out win be?

Apparently, very.

Oh, the ignominy of one goal!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, the appalling lack of midfield fluency and grace!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, the conspiratorially missed and too-few chances!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And damn it, my dead cat could out-manage Stevie!!!!!! And did you also know that Stevie G is not only the WORST manager in Villa history, but on Fifa, too, he's very suspect, and he tends to walk as if his spine is made of a 7 iron club? So, that's not good either, is it?

I confess, I strain under the endless weight of this disgraceful somewhat boring win. I've emptied my load of superlatives and intensifiers upon the Liverpool-smelling vomit-slathered creature that is Gerrardian Villa. I can offer no more.

My ManUnited-loving mate had the temerity to accuse us of being "dominant" in the first half before "an OK" second half where our players held a narrow edge. What kind if a friend says such tripe?  

Edited September 17, 2022 by Marka Ragnos

[briny_ear]

We dominated the game and were clearly the better side and in vintrilky sa. After such a poor start to the season, it must be good for the players to take part in such a performance.

Of course, there are still massive issues to sort out. Despite our dominance, we did very little with it, too many passes gone astray, too many shots snatched at with no outcome. But a win is a win and we needed one badly

[fruitvilla]

I tend to be puzzled by too many passes that go astray objection. We can have the tedious Southgate version where possession is king. In some ways I would prefer to see a pass go astray trying to split/penetrate a defence than Mings and Konsa passing the ball to the midfield and back and having a high pass percentage. If someone were to argue to play better football the through balls need to be better, I would not argue.

What I saw Southampton do yesterday was quickly gang up on Coutinho and Bailey. Southampton did well to minimize our chances.

[Keyblade]

On 16/09/2022 at 23:47, fruitvilla said:

Worst game? People must have watched a different game to me.

Was not great, I would agree.

Villa prevented Southampton from getting a real shot on goal, clean sheet. Does that count for nothing?

Villa's press forced Southampton to play a lot of hoof ball. (I can't help thinking Villa would almost be better off  playing on the counter attack).

Villa's problem is breaking down defences once they are set.

The worst Villa game I have seen? September 1968, watching from Tilton Road: Blues 4 : 0 Villa. People have no idea these days.

I'll take your word that it was pretty bad in 68, but it's still the one of the worst I've seen in my years supporting the club. Other contenders include the 2015 FA Cup final, Spurs away under McLeish and more than one game against Brentford under Bruce. Yesterday's game has the unique position of being the only one of those where both teams were equally poor making it a painful watch for Villa fans and neutrals alike.

[AlwaysAVFC]

9 hours ago, fruitvilla said:

Again ... it certainly was not champagne football. I would describe it as stodgy.

You did not mention Bailey ... ok was not his best game. But you were positive about most of the players?

Gerrard's job is now to work on creativity - create more, better chances and put them away. It won't be quick.

Sorry yes did miss Bailey, nearly missed Ramsey too when writing it. He was a but frustrating to watch. Listening to the TV commentary though I think they were a bit harsh on his performance. He did have an impact and was a bit of a threat that didn't quite click. Southampton defended against Bailey quite well and he it got quite congested for him. 

It was in Craig Butlers mad rant but it was in part true about Leon Bailey being a winger and not being played as one. Partly down to Southamptons tactics as much as ours but I think we would get more from him if he played wider and had more of the ball deeper with more space to attack.

Players like Bailey will frustrate at times, so it doesn't bother me too much, there will be games that he doesn't get much joy, but him and the rest of the team need to still use the ball quicker in the space thats created by attention to Bailey.

[onmeedson]

Di Matteo,  remi garde  billie McNiel,  Dr Joe  ,tommy Docherty . 

[AvonVillain]

2 hours ago, onmeedson said:

Di Matteo,  remi garde  billie McNiel,  Dr Joe  ,tommy Docherty . 

Christ that's difficult to read and not because of the names. What's the point here?

[briny_ear]

7 hours ago, onmeedson said:

Di Matteo,  remi garde  billie McNiel,  Dr Joe  ,tommy Docherty . 

What comes next?

”…you boys took a hell of a beating on Friday evening…”???

Edited September 18, 2022 by briny_ear

[Rigs]

On 17/09/2022 at 11:20, TRO said:

pull out the match report, for Stoke away...20 Apr 1981....1-1 draw.

I would imagine some fans would baulk at that football too.....it takes 2 teams to make  spectacle.

 

How is this in comparison to the current situation. The club have rich owners now and some poor decisions have been made. You laugh at others posts, but the way you defend gerrard make me think you are a red.  

[fruitvilla]

3 minutes ago, Rigs said:

How is this in comparison to the current situation. The club have rich owners now and some poor decisions have been made. You laugh at others posts, but the way you defend gerrard make me think you are a red.

I would like to see a much better display from the Villa team ... from Gerrard to the boot boy. No one is arguing that. The squad made Southampton look absolutely toothless. Is this what we like to see? I would argue yes. Did we capitalize on Southampton's toothlessness? Absolutely not.

The match did not meet our aspirations or what we think the potential quality of the squad is. I just don't buy into the "dire" narrative.

[fruitvilla]

11 hours ago, AlwaysAVFC said:

Southampton defended against Bailey quite well and he it got quite congested for him. 

This! If there is a criticism of Bailey (I think) is that he did not get the ball to an open player in a dangerous position when heavily marked. Southampton did well.

[onmeedson]

Alex Mcliesh, paul lambert, Tim Sherwood.

[danceoftheshamen]

I liken that Southampton performance to one I witnessed many years back under a certain Ron Saunders, a few months before he infamously quit.  We were Champions at the time but had had a really poor start to the season losing at home 0-1 to a newly promoted Notts County on our opening home game as I remember (Having drawn at Spurs on opening day). The season was a real let down in the League with regular runs of losses, despite solid progress in the European cup of course which we infamously ended up winning. I seem to remember we had been on a really poor run in particular leading up to the game in question.

That was Brighton & Hove Albion away in December 1981. Coming off about 3 straight losses it was getting really worrying and I distinctly remember a very similar kind of dull, battling "dig your heels in" kind of performance on that day. It got quite a bit of criticism as I remember yet we won the game 1-0. I remember distinctly Ron Saunders saying that it was a "stop the rot" performance. Saying we simply had to dig our heels in and stop the rot and that whilst it was not a pretty game in was simply necessary to stop the run of defeats.

That game against Southampton felt exactly like that and was simply what was urgently needed in my opinion.

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by danceoftheshamen

[TRO]

On 17/09/2022 at 22:32, fruitvilla said:

I tend to be puzzled by too many passes that go astray objection. We can have the tedious Southgate version where possession is king. In some ways I would prefer to see a pass go astray trying to split/penetrate a defence than Mings and Konsa passing the ball to the midfield and back and having a high pass percentage. If someone were to argue to play better football the through balls need to be better, I would not argue.

What I saw Southampton do yesterday was quickly gang up on Coutinho and Bailey. Southampton did well to minimize our chances.

I saw the same thing......2 teams trying to stop each other, usually ends up like that.

I thought Villa did well to minimize their chances too.

[fruitvilla]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I saw the same thing......2 teams trying to stop each other, usually ends up like that.

I thought Villa did well to minimize their chances too.

Yep ... Villa stopped Southampton and Southampton almost stopped Villa.

Another thing, I thought Villa pressed well. Resulting in Southampton having s relatively high possession percentage. Eventually Southampton was forced to hoof the ball. Followed by a slowish build up with Southampton defence already set. 

[TRO]

On 18/09/2022 at 18:48, Rigs said:

How is this in comparison to the current situation. The club have rich owners now and some poor decisions have been made. You laugh at others posts, but the way you defend gerrard make me think you are a red.  

I was merely pin pointing dour games can be played out in a season we won the league......just a bit of perspecctive, being applied.

I don't laugh at anyones posts, I would like to think, I have more respect than that....different views are inevitable.

I defend Gerrard in certain circumstances, not all.......He is Aston Villa's manager mate, not Liverpools.

[A'Villan]

Glad to see us get the win and have the better run of play. It was never going to shift to what we all want to see overnight, but this, is something to build on and is merit for Gerrard to have another shot at redeeming his poor start this season.

[TRO]

17 minutes ago, fruitvilla said:

Yep ... Villa stopped Southampton and Southampton almost stopped Villa.

Another thing, I thought Villa pressed well. Resulting in Southampton having s relatively high possession percentage. Eventually Southampton was forced to hoof the ball. Followed by a slowish build up with Southampton defence already set. 

Neither team allowed the other to fashion out slick play, it wasn't a game for the purists.....but I got what I wanted, clean sheet and 3 points.

would I want to watch that all season, absolutely not?......but I think our players need to play much better than that offensively, if they want to avoid the physicality.

I sometimes think we have to deploy too many players to attack, to get the job done......when better quality, would need less......that can then leave us exposed to the counter.

I do think at times, some of our players are not as good as we like to think they are.

The Jack Grealish money, was not spent on players , who are pulling up trees...... that was a huge damp squib....and the Lucas Digne transfer has hardly made us better.

I think sometimes we bark up the wrong tree....The recruitment has left me with mixed feelings.

Edited September 20, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

On 17/09/2022 at 22:16, andym said:

Sorry TRO but this idea that he changed the approach and we suddenly got stuck in last night isn't true. Overall this season we've been no worse than our opposition in the areas of the game that are indicative of the ability to pressure the opposition and to 'mix it':

• Against Bournemouth we attempted less tackles than them, won 1 less aerial and applied way less pressures than them (although they were really sitting back allowing us 2/3rds of the ball so less pressures is no surprise given that huge possession discrepancy)
• Against Everton we attempted less tackles than them, won more aerials and applied less pressures than them (like with Bournemouth they were really sitting back and we had most of the ball).
• Against Palace we attempted more tackles than them, won more aerials and applied more pressures than them.
• Against West Ham we attempted more tackles than them, won more aerials and applied just 3 less pressures than them
• Against Arsenal we attempted more tackles than them, won just 2 less aerials and applied more pressures than them.
• Against Man City we attempted more tackles than them and applied way more pressures than them (although that is just because you are always without the ball against them). Interestingly this was the one game where we were significantly worse at aerials won than the opposition.

Interestingly the idea that we get easily bullied in the air is once again this season a myth (it used to get used to criticise the previous manager, even when we were one of the top teams at defending set pieces)

Our problem isn't that we've been gung ho, it's the opposite; we look awful going forward (just 7 goals scored putting us joint 4th worst, and our xG is second worst), largely because of our stifling 'full backs as the creators' tactics. We don't look a cohesive unit when we have the ball, we look static and bereft of ideas when in the final 3rd. 

Off the ball we can easily be exploited because we have midfielders dropping to cover full backs and then our wide players dropping central to cover them; too many moving parts and all it takes is for one player to be a bit slow in their assignment and it all falls apart. 

Soton's successful pressure % was the joint most against us this season along with Man City and Everton.

He did indeed, he did very well given we quite often resorted to just lumping it up to him.

Mings was error free and putting in performances like last night numerous times when he was captain. He still does all the on pitch organising, encouraging etc. The idea that he needed the captaincy removing to concentrate on his own game is rubbish imo. Now it is the managers right to change the captain if he wants, no issue with that. But doing it suddenly right before the start of the season, giving it to someone who is one of the least captain like players in the squad (and imo shouldn't be in the starting XI), and then coming up with a bullshit reason for doing it was very poor management.

The didn't let us play, and did well to stop us......we did the same.

They was hardly coming to our place for another, 4-0 drubbing, was they?

net result, poor game......good result.

Edited September 20, 2022 by TRO