AVFC - a sleeping giant in a coma

[abdulaziz1]

2 hours ago, MikeMcKenna said:

In the 20 years from 1990 to 2010 we had seven managers, who enjoyed some respectable positions in the league and league cup wins.  In the last 12 years we have had nine managers and next to no success apart from cup runners up and promotion via the Championship play offs.  
 

Supposedly one of the ‘sleeping giants’ it is like we have fallen into a coma. Gerrard is almost certainly finished and in my opinion our current owners don’t have much to crow about. What is it going to take to wake us up?

One of the worst things is to act on a non reality basis. No doubt our club is big and one of the prestigious clubs in the world. But if you rely on the history, you’ll find yourself adrift. 
What were Man City, Chelsea and Spurs? 
What were Leicester and what is West Ham? 
The scum, Swansea, Wigan? 
All managed to win a trophy or played at Europe since we were on the decline.

We ourselves were in one Semi Final and two finals during our worst 3 seasons (apart from the one we actually went down).

Just have the right belief with realistic targets, with big ambitions. Our club size and history is a big part to build on, the fanbase as well. But without the right management, we will not use these bases well. 

Man Utd been in a mess since Sir Alex left, but in reality, the decline was coming anyway. The rise of Man City was there. People used to say Big 4, while Man City used to score for fun despite being 3rd and 4th. Since 2010-11 the most fearful fixture for me was Man City. But all teams kept looking at their success. 
Man Utd are still thinking they’re what they were, they can’t build, they’re in a hurry but kept losing it all. Now no one are looking at them as a threat. They have players that should easily get them to top 6, but they demand more while being in huge mess. 

We’re moving in a good direction, our fans are realistic. But we underachieve. Not because our history but because we’re having a good squad but we’re messing around because of our manager.

Last season, we were unlucky to lose Grealish and that was couple of steps back. We couldn’t sack Smith early on, but it was clear he was clueless without Jack (even during Championship). Then we got Gerrard, he helped us with some signings but turned into a nightmare.

We’ve kept Luiz which would keeps us stable, now we need the right manager. Who shall utilize the squad and also give a proper chance to the youngsters. I mean starting the likes of Archer, it’s not as if we’re having Ronaldo or Messi starting each game and scoring for fun.

[dubliner]

4 hours ago, MikeMcKenna said:

In the 20 years from 1990 to 2010 we had seven managers, who enjoyed some respectable positions in the league and league cup wins.  In the last 12 years we have had nine managers and next to no success apart from cup runners up and promotion via the Championship play offs.  
 

Supposedly one of the ‘sleeping giants’ it is like we have fallen into a coma. Gerrard is almost certainly finished and in my opinion our current owners don’t have much to crow about. What is it going to take to wake us up?

If only the top 4 had qualified for Champions League during those years in the 90s.

Mad to think in the first year of the Premier League both ourselves and Man United were on 7 titles and battling it out for an 8th.

I'm not sure what it's going to take to wake us up but it's such a shame to see clubs we were consistently better than for the majority of that 1990-2010 period pass us out (for example West Ham, Leicester and of course Man City)

Obviously City are where they are now because of ridiculous amounts of cash and we're never going to compete with that but the hope is we get our scouting and coaching structure right at some point and some day push for top 4 or even top 6.

At the moment that's a long long way away though 

[LondonLax]

Fans have been talking about this ‘sleeping giant’ label for as long as I have supported the club. 

I am starting to wonder if it’s actually a bit of self delusion we tell ourselves to keep going, whilst winning nothing season after season. 

[WallisFrizz]

4 hours ago, zab6359 said:

Major cup final? You mean the one everyone plays there kids in until the semi final. It’s a nothing cup that one I’d rather finish in the top 10 than win it.

You’d rather finish 8th or 9th than a win a trophy and a European place?

[a m ole]

Coach the players properly

[daft]

8 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

What a crock of shit. 

I wish. You're just pissed I am right. 

Still, I deserve to be called out for my atrocious spelling.

Trust me, we will be nowhere near the top guys for decades, if ever.

 

[daft]

2 hours ago, LondonLax said:

Fans have been talking about this ‘sleeping giant’ label for as long as I have supported the club. 

I am starting to wonder if it’s actually a bit of self delusion we tell ourselves to keep going, whilst winning nothing season after season. 

I think we had some claim to the title under MON, when we at least looked to challenge a bit, but we fell off. 

If we want to pick it up we need a serious rebuild, but that horse has left I am afraid. It will take Newcastle level riches and some seriously shady shit to get round FFP. 

They might pull something off, but we'll struggle. 

On top of that we seem to **** up just about every decision we take right now. 

[daft]

Also, I wouldn't call it deluded, but probably over optimistic, nostalgic or something similar. We all want our club to succeed, but our next cycle of success is far off. 

I think it will require some serious economic upheaval and the levelling of the playing field for the likes of us to be serious contenders again. 

I mean, look at Arsenal as an example of what it takes to get proper European competition. True, West Ham is playing in that othe European thing no-one but the winners really care about. 

 

[delboy54]

Been following the Villa now since my first game against Brissol City in 1968 where we lost 2 - 4 with a crowd of around 15300 if I recall.

I am now at point in agreeing with several comments on this thread. I think we are at a crossroads, bin SG now and get a top class manager and we may be ok. Stick with SG and we will be cut adrift, we will not attract a decent manager, probable relegation, our owners will sell up as a rare failure for them and we will become a Sheffield Wednesday or similar. Our glory years will be behind us at that point.

Quite depressing watching us rapidly decline over the last 9 months

[DaveAV1]

5 minutes ago, delboy54 said:

Been following the Villa now since my first game against Brissol City in 1968 where we lost 2 - 4 with a crowd of around 15300 if I recall.

I am now at point in agreeing with several comments on this thread. I think we are at a crossroads, bin SG now and get a top class manager and we may be ok. Stick with SG and we will be cut adrift, we will not attract a decent manager, probable relegation, our owners will sell up as a rare failure for them and we will become a Sheffield Wednesday or similar. Our glory years will be behind us at that point.

Quite depressing watching us rapidly decline over the last 9 months

We’ve both been watching and probably obsessing over The Villa over a similar period so we’ve very much seen the highs and the lows. Realistically where we are now doesn’t come anywhere near a low point, but some how it feels like one. Perhaps it’s because our expectations have been raised since NSWE came in, from a genuine low to the hope of a real chance of success again at some level. 
 

The appointment of Gerrard and the apparent  throwing away of the constant progress through a solid plan has been disastrous. Certainly in the short term and we need to act fast to make sure this is a blip and not a slump. I believe NSWE need to take some responsibility for this, the buck stops at the top and all that, but in my opinion their mistake was to allow Christian Purslow to not so much make the appointment in the first place, but to allow him to completely throw away the club recruitment policy on such a vanity project. I can see that Gerrard’s appointment was an attempt to raise our profile with the hope of quickening the pace of advancement. Cutting corners rarely works, and this experiment has clearly failed. 
 

The job of the board, in particular the CEO, is to put this problem right. He cannot allow this situation to continue. He has to see that this appointment has failed on many levels and appoint a proper, quality manager. Someone with the skills to halt our slide, get us back to looking like a Premier League team and for the last part of the season, after the World Cup break, start making some sort of sustainable progress. Because if he won’t or can’t do this then the changes need to be more widespread.
 

With a £100m infrastructure investment coming over the horizon, things on the pitch need to match the quality of their surroundings or there  won’t be the bums on the new shiny seats to justify the cost. 

Yet again we could be at a pivotal point in our long, sometimes glorious but often turbulent history. 

[Zatman]

9 hours ago, mykeyb said:

Was Big Ron the last manager we appointed who had won trophies in top flight English football?

As others have said we need a top quality manager to replace Gerrard.

McLeish

[VillaJ100]

9 hours ago, VillaChris said:

We were in a major cup final all of three years ago. Just got to actually turn up on the day for once and play lights out (second half v Man. City we actually gave it a go but as ever with us we were too tentative first 30 minutes and they quickly got into 2-0 lead via ridiculous corner award). Our nearest and dearest have done it in recent times which was embarrassing at the time but thankfully they've imploded since and won't be happening again. I remember watching it and deep down having a grudging respect for how they played v Arsenal on the day as they believed they could win it from first minute, dug in and got the luck right at the end. Then we played like we did v similar Arsenal 11 in 2015.....

Winning a cup can be done if we have a decent squad, get some luck with the draw and then really really believe on the day. Don't see why we can't have a good european run either given how strong the premier league is now.

Leicester have done both in last two years albeit they're now on a massive comedown.

They didn't. They played with Scott Dann and the other meatball CB parked on the edge of their own 18 yard box desperately trying to avoid a complete battering and got one break they scored from, coupled with Arsenal and I think Cazorla in particular missing about 10 chances. I don't think it was a thing then but the xG must have been about 4.5 to 0.3 or something 

[Zatman]

5 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said:

They didn't. They played with Scott Dann and the other meatball CB parked on the edge of their own 18 yard box desperately trying to avoid a complete battering and got one break they scored from, coupled with Arsenal and I think Cazorla in particular missing about 10 chances. I don't think it was a thing then but the xG must have been about 4.5 to 0.3 or something 

Not really as Martins goal would have had a very high XG. Stats for the final was Arsenal 11 shots on target and blues 7

[avfc1982am]

1 hour ago, daft said:

I wish. You're just pissed I am right. 

Still, I deserve to be called out for my atrocious spelling.

Trust me, we will be nowhere near the top guys for decades, if ever.

 

No...I think it's a crock of shit and you are a depressive character. End of.

[AndyM3000]

Until the rules change we have no chance, it takes a massive effort and spending just to get into the Europa Conference thing.

The top clubs just get stronger, spending cap or salary cap needed. 

[AV82]

This 'sleeping giant' has been hit over the head by Slippy G and is out for the count.

[messi11]

[DaveAV1]

20 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said:

The top clubs just get stronger, spending cap or salary cap needed. 

I think that wouldn’t be good for us at all Andy. The big clubs either wouldn’t stand for it or run into the arms of some sort of European Super league. Or it would be set up in such a way that so favoured them that we and everyone else would be locked out forever. 

[skarroki]

I don't think we or anyone else is a sleeping giant, it's an archaic term used by fans of mismanaged clubs. 

Think Sunderland or Sheff Weds or Bradford or any number of other well supported sides in the lower leagues have a right to use it to an extent as the size of the stadium and infrasture and the amount of fans far outweighs all their opponents. 

Once you're in the prem the only way to progress is the same for every single club. The clubs at the top are doing it better than anyone else, however and they also find it easier to attract players and earn more money. 

So it all just becomes a percentage game, but when you can't compete with the top 6 and then the likes of Wolves, West Ham and Leicester have had good seasons recently and ways of bringing in good coaches and players, you're then competing with the bottom 8-10 teams and some of them (Palace, Brighton, Brentford, Leeds) have been well set up and have a clear identity and structure they're working towards. 

So now we're just trying to outbid teams like Everton to scraps and build a team that suits the current manager instead of an overarching plan, which means it's square one whenever someone leaves, player or manager or the tactics are tweaked. It's suicidal short-termism in the Premier League. 

Been worried we'd end up like Everton since we got promoted and here we are. Sad times. 

[Zhan_Zhuang]

Villa are light years away...

Our standing in the Premiership is also-rans, we haven't won a trophy since 1996...I began supporting Villa in 1986. Brief success under Taylor, Atkinson and Little but 1996 was such a long time ago. 

I just can't see how we get anywhere near troubling the top eight any time soon.

Other teams are better run and have a chance this season to break in such as Saudi Castle Utd; we joked and mocked them but they are actually looking well-run and with a plan. In contrast Villa had a plan but have changed it drastically by giving Gerrard the keys.

We made some progress initially under NSWE and Dean Smith but it looks like the last ten months have taken us back...

Everything about Villa screams midtable mediocrity, I don't think we will ever change.