jafitz Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 tut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 because allan, all the reports indicate Randy is 100% behind this and we don;t need the money for Barry so if his value goes down, so be it, principles are sometimes more importnat than money Randy has proved this at villa, the browns and in his own personal life. point missed once more. I'm all for and fully agree with Randy supporting MO'N that is as it should be, at least publically. I would say that the support is both public, private and unequivocal. Mr Lerner owns the club, so if they 'miss' the sale of GB for a large fee, the money lost is his alone. He is happy to sanction that on either a point of principle, or because he is a damned good businessman who knows exactly what the culmination of this situation will bring. I'd go for the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuen_Biao Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 And you should really try to be more respectful. I'm not the only one. But you're the one stirring things up, what's wrong with you? And a tabloid newpaper article does not quantify as a 'transfer request' as far as Aston Villa Football Club is concerned. Ask the 'general' and I'm sure he would laugh at such an irrelevant question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redman Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Redman LLB (HONS) wrote You should really starting thinking before posting. In legal terms, a transfer request can be official, unofficial, verbal or written. The whole country has seen a document containing direct quotes from Barry expressing his desire to leave Aston Villa. That is a transfer request. If, for whatever reason, Barry contested that in court, he would lose. So please explain, have you seen the contents of Barrys current contract t osee exactly what is defined as 'a transfer request'. It has been held for many years that the only form of request that effects payments is in WRITING. Otherwise this wouldn't be an issue in many transfers. Has Bentley put his request in writing? No. He has left the tour, alledgedly feigned injury but no WRITTEN request. An offical, written transfer request constitutes an agreement to waive any settlement due. Direct quotes in a Sunday newspaper demanding to leave don't constitute an agreement but provide the selling club with more than enough evidence to use in court should the player contest their decision to withhold the settlement on the basis that he did not hand in an official transfer request. The transfer request is designed to protect a club from having to lose a player against it's wishes and also settle his contract. What is the point of having an official transfer request if a player can force his way out of his contract by blabbing to the press and collect his settlement anyway simplly because he didn't sign on the dotted line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redman Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 And you should really try to be more respectful. I'm not the only one. But you're the one stirring things up, what's wrong with you? And a tabloid newpaper article does not quantify as a 'transfer request' as far as Aston Villa Football Club is concerned. Ask the 'general' and I'm sure he would laugh at such an irrelevant question! No mate - I'm not the only one stirring things up either. I'd like to know what the General has to say too but I expect he knows Villa would have a strong case if they chose not to settle Barry's contract based on the NOWT interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJim Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 The transfer request is designed to protect a club from having to lose a player against it's wishes and also settle his contract. What is the point of having an official transfer request if a player can force his way out of his contract by blabbing to the press and collect his settlement anyway simplly because he didn't sign on the dotted line? I think our friend has a point here. But at the risk of disappointing him, I just can't see a deal being agreed with Liverpool. My money is on a late move to Arsenal for an undisclosed but considerably reduced fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wif Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I think we can consider O'Neill's letter to be more of a ransom note than a starting point for negotiation. OK, so you're not willing to discuss this seriously I take it? First the problems were with MON refusing to negotiate, now they're with MON not negotiating in exactly the way you'd like him to. I really can't see what else you are proposing here apart from: 'We are Liverpool, so you must sell us this player at less than the value you have placed on him.' I am willing to discuss it seriously. I haven't seen the contents of O'Neill's letter but I'm fairly sure it offers Liverpool no encouragement whatsoever and was not designed to spark a round of negotiations. I fail to see why Villa need to offer any encouragement to Liverpool - the only thing that needs to be offered is cash. If Liverpool don't have the cash, then why should Villa care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 The transfer request is designed to protect a club from having to lose a player against it's wishes and also settle his contract. What is the point of having an official transfer request if a player can force his way out of his contract by blabbing to the press and collect his settlement anyway simplly because he didn't sign on the dotted line? Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redman Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I think we can consider O'Neill's letter to be more of a ransom note than a starting point for negotiation. OK, so you're not willing to discuss this seriously I take it? First the problems were with MON refusing to negotiate, now they're with MON not negotiating in exactly the way you'd like him to. I really can't see what else you are proposing here apart from: 'We are Liverpool, so you must sell us this player at less than the value you have placed on him.' I am willing to discuss it seriously. I haven't seen the contents of O'Neill's letter but I'm fairly sure it offers Liverpool no encouragement whatsoever and was not designed to spark a round of negotiations. I fail to see why Villa need to offer any encouragement to Liverpool - the only thing that needs to be offered is cash. If Liverpool don't have the cash, then why should Villa care? That's the whole point - some are claiming that O'Neill's letter was designed to open negotations. To do that, it would have to offer encouragement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redman Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 The transfer request is designed to protect a club from having to lose a player against it's wishes and also settle his contract. What is the point of having an official transfer request if a player can force his way out of his contract by blabbing to the press and collect his settlement anyway simplly because he didn't sign on the dotted line? Exactly! Yeah, exactly. That's why, legally, a newspaper article can constitute a transfer request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Of course not but after the way this has gone so far, do you really think it offers Liverpool any encouragement? This is kinda the point that keeps going round and round and constantly gets missed. The valuation on Barry is rumoured to be around the £18 million figure. This is on a par with the sum Rafa recently paid for Mascherano and also what Man Utd paid for Carrick and Hargreaves. It is commonly regarded as the going rate for a player of Barry's calibre and seen as a fair price. Why should Villa offer Liverpool any encouragement to settle for anything less than the going rate for the player. We are allowing the player to leave for a reasonable price, he has been valued appropriately. It may well be a hell of a lot of money but as I say it's the expected valuation of the player, and with even more money coming into the premier league the valuation may even be considered to be on the cheap side. I don't see how Villa can be painted as the "bad guys" in this saga. If Hull came in for Finnan and offered £350 grand they'd be laughed at for taking the piss. The situation is exactly the same with the Barry transfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingphil Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I've been reading this thread with some interest, as it is good to obtain Redman's view on this, despite many not agreeing with it. I would love to know what other teams fans think of this situation - Is it a case of MON being stubborn, GB being a prick, or Liverpool thinking they are high and mighty ? Like most, I want this whole sorry saga brought to an abrupt end - If this involves 15m + Finnan then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 The transfer request is designed to protect a club from having to lose a player against it's wishes and also settle his contract. What is the point of having an official transfer request if a player can force his way out of his contract by blabbing to the press and collect his settlement anyway simplly because he didn't sign on the dotted line? Exactly! Yeah, exactly. That's why, legally, a newspaper article can constitute a transfer request. "Legally" a newspaper article means shit.......... A signed document by the player and representatives constitutes a legally binding transfer request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancsVillan Posted July 23, 2008 Moderator Share Posted July 23, 2008 The transfer request is designed to protect a club from having to lose a player against it's wishes and also settle his contract. What is the point of having an official transfer request if a player can force his way out of his contract by blabbing to the press and collect his settlement anyway simplly because he didn't sign on the dotted line? Exactly! Yeah, exactly. That's why, legally, a newspaper article can constitute a transfer request. "Legally" a newspaper article means shit.......... A signed document by the player and representatives constitutes a legally binding transfer request. Interesting poin t that one so I called a lawyer who deals with a Chumpionship club and he reaffirmed Redman's view that the newspaper article could be used as evidence of a transfer request. Especially as there has been no retraction. If it went to court he believes that Villa would be able put an injunction on GB being able to play whilst in the courts. to thetrees - I agree with you on Randy's support, however, the impact this could have on our club albeit prediction and supposition is an unknown. If I were a player looking to move to a bigger/better club from say West Ham I would look at MO'Ns actions here and have second thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villasquare Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 get rid now , weve made our point , we will not be bullied by bigger clubs (even liverpool) . sell , sell ,sell then use the cash to buy , buy , buy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wif Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I think we can consider O'Neill's letter to be more of a ransom note than a starting point for negotiation. OK, so you're not willing to discuss this seriously I take it? First the problems were with MON refusing to negotiate, now they're with MON not negotiating in exactly the way you'd like him to. I really can't see what else you are proposing here apart from: 'We are Liverpool, so you must sell us this player at less than the value you have placed on him.' I am willing to discuss it seriously. I haven't seen the contents of O'Neill's letter but I'm fairly sure it offers Liverpool no encouragement whatsoever and was not designed to spark a round of negotiations. I fail to see why Villa need to offer any encouragement to Liverpool - the only thing that needs to be offered is cash. If Liverpool don't have the cash, then why should Villa care? That's the whole point - some are claiming that O'Neill's letter was designed to open negotations. To do that, it would have to offer encouragement. I don't remember O'Neill claiming that he wanted to open negotiations. Have I missed something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jafitz Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Jaf, the title is BARRY THE FINAL OFFER' that by necessity means the pay off if he were to go and what terms that offer would have. If you don't like it leave modding tothe mods! I am personally grateful for LV input, however law is always a point of argument which is why lawyers make so much money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsby Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 If I were a player looking to move to a bigger/better club from say West Ham I would look at MO'Ns actions here and have second thoughts. Yes, this is my concern too. Will the next Ashley Young be so keen to join us if he feels that there is a fair chance, in the event of a potential transfer, of finding himself in a similar situation to Barry? I am not for one moment suggesting that we should be signing players who already have one eye on a move to a perceived 'bigger' club - but it will be a genuine concern , on the players behalf, when deciding with whom to sign with, IMO. I have respected MON's stubbornness throughout this, but it is now time to do a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Will the next Ashley Young be so keen to join us if he feels that there is a fair chance, in the event of a potential transfer, of finding himself in a similar situation to Barry? Is that why Mr.Bentley doesn't want to come and use us as a stepping stone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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