TRO Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 13 hours ago, sne said: I feel it will be both. Personally I don't think there is much between them although they have very different qualities. Ings home, Watkins away perhaps. Edit: Obviously I hope every selection will be made based on form rather than favoritism. Horses for courses.....there isn't much between them, how they do it? is different......The outcome is not. but, There is no evidence of Favouritism, its a figment of the imagination....SG wants to win football matches....that accusation has been levelled at managers since, football began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichiBoi11 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 If you're playing a sole striker I think it has to be Watkins. He might not be as clinical as Ings but his pressing and workrate is much better. If we were a team that completely dictated play like a Man City then Ings would be fine up there, but we're not, and when you need a presence up top to chase players down, stretch play and hold the ball up, Watkins is ahead of Ings in every regard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 39 minutes ago, TRO said: Horses for courses.....there isn't much between them, how they do it? is different......The outcome is not. but, There is no evidence of Favouritism, its a figment of the imagination....SG wants to win football matches....that accusation has been levelled at managers since, football began. Of course there is favouritism, it’s a natural part of the human psyche. He picks Watkins because he sees in him more than he sees in Ings, he favours Watkins positives more than Danny’s positives at the moment. Given he sees that he is more likely to give more chances than the mean. None of us are robots so we don’t purely go on stats and data, he picks the team he feels is right, which is based on traits in players he feels are right not necessarily backed up by the data but could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, RichiBoi11 said: If you're playing a sole striker I think it has to be Watkins. He might not be as clinical as Ings but his pressing and workrate is much better. Not sure I agree, his pressing and work rate wasn’t at the level as previous season. Somebody put stats just after mid season showing that and showing that Ings had better pressing stats per minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichiBoi11 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, nick76 said: Not sure I agree, his pressing and work rate wasn’t at the level as previous season. Somebody put stats just after mid season showing that and showing that Ings had better pressing stats per minute. If his pressing was superior in the 2nd half of the season then it failed the eye test for me, because Ings never looked anywhere near causing any problems for defenders from what I saw. But I'm just a fan so I could be completely wrong on this! That said I like both players anyway, I've always thought the issue was the completely unbalanced midfield behind them. Fix that and they should both benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Archer will not go out on loan and will score more than those 2 put together 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, nick76 said: Of course there is favouritism, it’s a natural part of the human psyche. He picks Watkins because he sees in him more than he sees in Ings, he favours Watkins positives more than Danny’s positives at the moment. Given he sees that he is more likely to give more chances than the mean. None of us are robots so we don’t purely go on stats and data, he picks the team he feels is right, which is based on traits in players he feels are right not necessarily backed up by the data but could be. That's not my definition of Favouritism Nick. you seem to be using the word favour, in place of chooses or choice. If he sees thing in Watkins, that he wants in the team and Danny don't provide it.....thats not favour, its analytical choice....its a decision, not a favouritism. Favouritism to me, is when no logical reason can be mustered for a decision other than a personal liking......and I don't believe that to be the case here. Edited July 28, 2022 by TRO 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 It has to be Watkins, we need someone up top who will run for 90 minutes, chase down hopeful punts and put defenders under pressure, I just don’t think Ings does any of that really. The trade off of course is that Watkins’ technical ability and awareness are lacking, which incidentally is what I would consider as being Ings’ strengths. Maybe Watkins plays in the games where we don’t expect to have a lot of the ball and Ings in matches where we expect to be on top. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 23 minutes ago, TRO said: That not my definition of Favouritism Nick. you seem to be using the word favour, in place of chooses or choice. If he sees thing in Watkins, that he wants in the team and Danny don't provide it.....thats not favour, its analytical choice....its a decision, not a favouritism. Favouritism to me, is when no logical reason can be mustered for a decision other than a personal liking......and I don't believe that to be the case here. Not necessarily analytical choice though. Your definition of favouritism is the extreme end of the definition. It can be that he favours Watkins not just for personal liking but but traits, what he wants to see (not necessarily what he actually gets to see). It can be nothing to do with his personal like for him or Ings but a favouring perception of the traits which leads him to choosing him despite the analytical data maybe telling him otherwise. Favouritism can be a blinding of what he should be rather than what the data is telling him, that’s nothing to do with personal like but perception and can lead him to picking Watkins more than he should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: It has to be Watkins, we need someone up top who will run for 90 minutes, chase down hopeful punts and put defenders under pressure Problem is that he didn’t do anywhere the levels last season as he did the season before and mid season Ings pressures stats were higher than Watkins. I’m not saying either of them were good enough but the perception of this of Watkins last season is off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 At the moment Watkins but a lot depends on form and fitness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Against weaker opposition I would definitely start with Ings. More opportunities will be created for our striker(s) and Ings is the better finisher. If we were playing City, I would probably start with Watkins as he can make more of a nuisance of himself which could help keep them from pushing forward all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 I agree with the above,but,TBH I would prefer if we splashed the cash and bought another striker. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 I see this similar to the view I have on McGinn. If we have the ball and expect to dominate I want Ings in there and if we don't I want the work rate and pressing of Watkins (same with McGinn). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV82 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 28 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said: I see this similar to the view I have on McGinn. If we have the ball and expect to dominate I want Ings in there and if we don't I want the work rate and pressing of Watkins (same with McGinn). This is a really great point. Players have strengths and weaknesses and yet still we persist with the same 11 week in, week out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farlz Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 They're both pretty rubbish so just flip a coin each week and go with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 12 hours ago, nick76 said: Not necessarily analytical choice though. Your definition of favouritism is the extreme end of the definition. It can be that he favours Watkins not just for personal liking but but traits, what he wants to see (not necessarily what he actually gets to see). It can be nothing to do with his personal like for him or Ings but a favouring perception of the traits which leads him to choosing him despite the analytical data maybe telling him otherwise. Favouritism can be a blinding of what he should be rather than what the data is telling him, that’s nothing to do with personal like but perception and can lead him to picking Watkins more than he should. I don't think managers, whose jobs depend on picking the right players, rely on Favouritism....I can't put it, any other way. I think its more to do with fans, not agreeing with a managers decision and searching for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 Whoever’s in form… neither atm… I’d like to give Bailey a try up top, supported by Emi and Phil. Can Archer step up? It’s a tough question really… if Ings is fit and firing then he’s probably the more favourable option but then you can say the same for Watkins who brings other useful characteristics. Danny looked so slow and sluggish last season… so far, it’s been a poor signing with no longevity. Not worth the outlay at least. Hopefully that changes but where are the signs? Ollie was great in his first season, dunno what’s up with him… Maybe the priority is improving creativity and supply rather than worrying about how clinical we are… get Emi and Phil in that side together… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 5 hours ago, TRO said: I don't think managers, whose jobs depend on picking the right players, rely on Favouritism....I can't put it, any other way. I think its more to do with fans, not agreeing with a managers decision and searching for a reason. I don’t think a manager relies on favouritism but I certainly think it’s a factor because unconsciously it’s in the human psyche. Obviously it’s a lot less than fans but there is always an element of it, I’m surprised you don’t think there is an element of it in the decision making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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