Chindie Posted March 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 minute ago, chrisp65 said: I’d have to go and do some deeper research, but from memory doesn’t Gawain in some really old Welsh story meet or slay green elves? Given Tolkien’s liking of ancient Welsh language would it be a stretch to suggest he knew Elves were green? I can’t help feeling that if something is pure fantasy, it’s open to much greater adaption. I’m far more relaxed about the colour of fairies, or the sexuality of a robot in the next Star Wars, than maybe actual historical figures being incorrectly written. I've no idea. But even if that is the case, Tolkein expressly describes his elves as immensely beautiful white people, and therefore according to the people allegedly worked up by this anything other than beautiful white people is woke bullshit. I don't agree that fantasy topics equal a free for all in adaptation. Ultimately fans are fans of things for more than just a name or aesthetic, they're interested and invested in particular characters, their stories, their actions. If you reject those in your attempt to adapt something, you may as well not bother, and immediately smacks of using the name to sell something, which pisses people off something rotten. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, Chindie said: I've no idea. But even if that is the case, Tolkein expressly describes his elves as immensely beautiful white people, and therefore according to the people allegedly worked up by this anything other than beautiful white people is woke bullshit. I don't agree that fantasy topics equal a free for all in adaptation. Ultimately fans are fans of things for more than just a name or aesthetic, they're interested and invested in particular characters, their stories, their actions. If you reject those in your attempt to adapt something, you may as well not bother, and immediately smacks of using the name to sell something, which pisses people off something rotten. Sorry, I’d done an edit on that post, but took a long time about it. Long story short, one of the ancient Welsh stories is Gwyn ap Nudd, the leader of the ‘fair people’. Gwyn meaning ‘white’. But their leader is later described as having a black face. So I disagree its woke bullshit, if it was ok in the sixth century, I think its fine in later spin offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Discussion of elf skin colour used in a show based on a classic fantasy novel is a fair one. Ron Wesley is ginger. It would be stupid if films made him have dark hair. What isn't fair is saying "this show will be shit because there are black elves". I am strongly against this rhetoric. It would also appear to me that "race" is an important issue of Tolkien's work, especially considering different clans of people and how they relate to each other - this is particularly seen with different kinds of elves. I am 100% looking forward to this. Amazon, please do not disappoint! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 It would be cool if they kept it realistic and cast genuine black elves from Norse mythology. Fictional fantasy should be a carbon copy of the completely true mythology it takes inspiration from otherwise you end up with gay dragons and stuff. Top tier fantasy requires zero fiction IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Brumerican said: It would be cool if they kept it realistic and cast genuine black elves from Norse mythology. Fictional fantasy should be a carbon copy of the completely true mythology it takes inspiration from otherwise you end up with gay dragons and stuff. Top tier fantasy requires zero fiction IMO. I have it on good authority that Smaug could get a fine tune out of the pink oboe, so gay dragons aren't woke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Just now, Chindie said: I have it on good authority that Smaug could get a fine tune out of the pink oboe, so gay dragons aren't woke. Real Norse dragons were mostly asexual but were able to reproduce once every 144,000 years during the Venusian equinox. The dragons we see in the media today are mostly paid actors or made of computer bitecoins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted March 19, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 19, 2022 Amazon have bought MGM Studios meaning they've acquired the rights to The Hobbit. No doubt they'll release a follow up to Trop featuring Bilbo as soon as they can. Is it worth renaming this thread to focus upon the whole Tolkien universe (films, shows and books) rather than having separate threads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 The Hobbit movies was an abomination so would be more than happy if the made a Marvel style reboot of that story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted March 19, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 19, 2022 47 minutes ago, Rds1983 said: Is it worth renaming this thread to focus upon the whole Tolkien universe "Tolkien shit" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 19, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 19, 2022 On 09/03/2022 at 20:04, Chindie said: I'm a big fan of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books. Last year the BBC did an adaptation of some of them, and they changed things in it. Some of those didn't matter, even as an enormous fan. Wow, I completely missed these. What did they do? The Sky adaptions were OK but I've been hoping for someone to do a better job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 19, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 19, 2022 25 minutes ago, sidcow said: Wow, I completely missed these. What did they do? The Sky adaptions were OK but I've been hoping for someone to do a better job. They did a series called the Watch. It loosely adapted a couple of plots over 6 episodes from what I understand. But did it in some kind of steam punk style and changed various characters to varying degrees (gender flips to completely binning the entire basis of some characters). They also seemed to have complete contempt for Pratchett - the showrunner didn't mention that the show was an adaptation at any point, one of the actors appeared in a podcast I listened to and did the whole spiel promoting the show and didn't mention Pratchett or it being an adaptation etc etc. The Sky adaptations are... Ok. Hogfather isn't bad and mostly suffers for some of the issues with it's themes being hard to adapt for the screen. And some dodgy casting. But that could have been a complete mess and it isn't, by a miracle. Colour of Magic is a weak story and David Jason is completely miscast. And Going Postal is ok but needed to be done with a higher budget and less... campy. The difficulty with Pratchett's stuff and adaptation is that a lot of the character and humour of his work is in the ever present narrators voice, which just doesn't adapt easily. For some reason people tend to make adaptations of his work very knowingly whacky, when that's not really anything like what they are. Thankfully his family's production company is apparently working closely on future adaptations, after they publicly denounced the BBC series. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 (edited) I managed just under 2 episodes of The Watch. Dreadful stuff and prime example of when companies take an IP and then destroys it by thinking they can improve on it and write better than the author. As mentioned before Amazon did the same with The Wheel of Time. Edited March 19, 2022 by sne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 19, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 19, 2022 46 minutes ago, Chindie said: They did a series called the Watch. It loosely adapted a couple of plots over 6 episodes from what I understand. But did it in some kind of steam punk style and changed various characters to varying degrees (gender flips to completely binning the entire basis of some characters). They also seemed to have complete contempt for Pratchett - the showrunner didn't mention that the show was an adaptation at any point, one of the actors appeared in a podcast I listened to and did the whole spiel promoting the show and didn't mention Pratchett or it being an adaptation etc etc. The Sky adaptations are... Ok. Hogfather isn't bad and mostly suffers for some of the issues with it's themes being hard to adapt for the screen. And some dodgy casting. But that could have been a complete mess and it isn't, by a miracle. Colour of Magic is a weak story and David Jason is completely miscast. And Going Postal is ok but needed to be done with a higher budget and less... campy. The difficulty with Pratchett's stuff and adaptation is that a lot of the character and humour of his work is in the ever present narrators voice, which just doesn't adapt easily. For some reason people tend to make adaptations of his work very knowingly whacky, when that's not really anything like what they are. Thankfully his family's production company is apparently working closely on future adaptations, after they publicly denounced the BBC series. I agree with your appraisal. I will avoid watching Samantha Vimes whipping her charges into shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 19, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 hour ago, sidcow said: I agree with your appraisal. I will avoid watching Samantha Vimes whipping her charges into shape. From what I understand they portray as Vimes as a hapless drunk, but he is a man. Presumably they read bits of Guards Guards and saw Vimes is a drunk, and completely misunderstood everything else about his character. They turned Sybil into Batman, gender flipped Vetinari, made Cruces into a young woman, turned Cheery into a trans story, binned of most of Carrots story and turned Angua into Vimes minder, apparently. And iirc I think they killed off Detritus in the first episode, which is a way to kill a budget leech in a way the GoT guys could only dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 20, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Chindie said: And iirc I think they killed off Detritus in the first episode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 7, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 7, 2022 Teaser for the next trailer. Warning - contains black people who do not necessarily look like they're evil. Including Lenny Henry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 13 minutes ago, Chindie said: Including Lenny Henry. I'm out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Lenny Henry is in it? Definitely not a comedy then 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, theboyangel said: Lenny Henry is in it? Definitely not a comedy then It seems an odd casting, but I've been pleasantly surprised enough times before. I fully expected Mark Addy in GoT to be completely jarring and was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 What I don't get is it looks like they've told Lenny Henry to put a funny English accent on... Why not just stick with the one he's got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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