sidcow Posted January 17, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 17, 2022 We always look getter when one of them goes off. The extra creativity is generated from the players around and behind the one and we just look a more balanced team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I think different games need different players. Ings is a million times better finisher than Watkins. Watkins has an unbeatable workrate though. I think they compete with eachother and we see a little rotation. Also we need two top players in each position. IF Watkins got an injury and was out for a couple of months we have no drop off in quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 For example, if we're home to Burnley we know they are going to be playing deeper than other teams we play and we need Ings there to finish off chances we create. While away to say Spurs we would want Watkins. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) Watkins never seems to see the moves Ings is making. And Ings probably should learn to drop deeper to try and link up with Watkins. But clearly it ain't working at all. Watkins needs to play centrally. That is what got his move from the championship to the premier league. Long term I am not sure what we are going to do with Ings. Edited January 17, 2022 by The Fun Factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Hopefully Gerrard has seen enough now and won't start both the weekend. Simply doesn't work and never really see them pass to each other during the game. Both haven't been great but I feel Ings is hardly involved in the game so I hope going forward it's a Coutinho/Watkins/Buendia front three with Ings and Bailey coming off the bench (when Bailey is fit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I have faith it'll all come good eventually, when they have to unite to defeat Clubber Lang. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I'd say we will stick with these two as our CFs for next 18 months and then assess in Summer of 2023, we'll see how Archer and Barry have progressed. I would imagine we'd be going 50 mil for a CF around then to improve us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 For me Ings is the more unselfish player and is more likely to play Watkins in if he had the chance to do so. Watkins however appears more likely to try to beat 3 players and shoot rather than play in someone else in a better position. You would also say that Ings is surely the better finisher. Watkins has missed a lot of very good chances recently and he seems to lack that killer instinct which Ings has. So looking at those things it becomes apparent why they don't work. 1. Watkins does get some service from Ings but usually misses the chances he gets as a result. 2. Ings is the better finisher by far but never gets played in by Watkins so he becomes much less effective. So for me personally it's more on Watkins being unwilling to play Ings in as he wants to hog the chances for himself which he usually misses. I feel it could work "better" but maybe not the perfect partnership we all crave. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDVILLAIN Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, danceoftheshamen said: 2. Ings is the better finisher by far but never gets played in by Watkins so he becomes much less effective. This is something i have noticed over the last few times they have played together,Watkins refusing to play in Ings..not sure if its jealousy? or Watkins has an agenda. Either way both of them on the pitch dont work..its plain for all to see. If i was the manager i would sell watkins while we can to arsenal and buy a big front man, which is what Ings is used to playing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul33 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, OLDVILLAIN said: If i was the manager i would sell watkins while we can to arsenal and buy a big front man, which is what Ings is used to playing with. ..... or bring back Keinan ?!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 8 hours ago, CVByrne said: For example, if we're home to Burnley we know they are going to be playing deeper than other teams we play and we need Ings there to finish off chances we create. While away to say Spurs we would want Watkins. Agreed, one or the other may be more appropriate against any given opponent. I'd want to start Watkins against a team like Liverpool or City that presses high...hitting an early ball to him and letting him hold it up would help us break the press and give us time to bring players forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvonVillain Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Starting to think that it doesn't really make much difference which one we choose, in an oddly similar way to the blunt Keinan Davis & Samatta scenario. It's completely understandable that Gerrard needs to see them together to find out whether the partnership works, but how long can you destabilize an entire team before coming to the now obvious conclusion? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 They simply can’t play together, and any debate that Ollie has “been forced to play wide” is null and void watching these clips and analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 10 hours ago, CVByrne said: I think different games need different players. Ings is a million times better finisher than Watkins. This thinking irks me. If he's such a superior finisher why has he only scored more than 10 goals in season on 3 occasions? (11, 25, 13) that stella 25 goal season is a real outlier. The counter argument seems to be, "well, he hasn't had the service", which is asinine. It's the Scott Hogan argument. It's like... "Our keeper is brilliant, yeah... he keeps letting in 3 goals every game cause the defence is rubbish". Ings seems to be immune from criticism to the levels of other players and I don't understand why. It's like the injured player argument. When a player is out of the side for a long period, his abilities get artificially inflated in the minds of many. Maybe the invisible, anonymous nature of many of his performances contribute to this perception. Has his thread slipped to the 3rd page again yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 53 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said: This thinking irks me. If he's such a superior finisher why has he only scored more than 10 goals in season on 3 occasions? (11, 25, 13) that stella 25 goal season is a real outlier. The counter argument seems to be, "well, he hasn't had the service", which is asinine. It's the Scott Hogan argument. It's like... "Our keeper is brilliant, yeah... he keeps letting in 3 goals every game cause the defence is rubbish". Ings seems to be immune from criticism to the levels of other players and I don't understand why. It's like the injured player argument. When a player is out of the side for a long period, his abilities get artificially inflated in the minds of many. Maybe the invisible, anonymous nature of many of his performances contribute to this perception. Has his thread slipped to the 3rd page again yet? Something to do with a Knee surgery an a cruciate rupture close to each other resulting in him being out for 2 years? He isn’t perfect by a stretch but he is a better than Ollie at certain things and Ollie is better than Danny at certain things, Ings isn’t immune from criticism people seem to jump to defend Ollie as he’s “being forced to play wide” when he clearly isn’t, the system has been implemented to accommodate both, and should get the best out of both but they clearly can’t work it out with each other and it isn’t working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, jimmygreaves said: This thinking irks me. If he's such a superior finisher why has he only scored more than 10 goals in season on 3 occasions? (11, 25, 13) that stella 25 goal season is a real outlier. The counter argument seems to be, "well, he hasn't had the service", which is asinine. It's the Scott Hogan argument. It's like... "Our keeper is brilliant, yeah... he keeps letting in 3 goals every game cause the defence is rubbish". Ings seems to be immune from criticism to the levels of other players and I don't understand why. It's like the injured player argument. When a player is out of the side for a long period, his abilities get artificially inflated in the minds of many. Maybe the invisible, anonymous nature of many of his performances contribute to this perception. Has his thread slipped to the 3rd page again yet? Funnily enough, I compared Ings to Hogan today. Ings is obviously a lot better but he seems immune to criticism in the sense that it’s everybody else’s fault he isn’t playing well. When Hogan was here, it was a case of the other players not spotting his clever runs and nothing to do with the fact he could barely control a football. Ings isn’t a bad player but he has been poor a lot this season and anonymous in some games. That’s Ings’ fault, nobody else’s. I’d love him to come good because he’s shown glimpses but it’s not exactly worked out so far, has it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I think it's quite simple, on this level Watkins isn't good enough in any other position than as center forward, where he can use his pace to run the channels, strech teams, press, and go for shots without having to take to many touches on the ball. In any other position, wide forward or no 10, his dodgy ball control and passing is exposed. With Ings and Watkins Ings gets deprived of one of the main positions that are supposed to create chances for him, also they are running in the same areas and hindering each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I think they can play together, but it really doesnt matter. There is nothing wrong with having two ~30M quality players competing for the same spot. Thats what big clubs do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: Funnily enough, I compared Ings to Hogan today. Ings is obviously a lot better but he seems immune to criticism in the sense that it’s everybody else’s fault he isn’t playing well. When Hogan was here, it was a case of the other players not spotting his clever runs and nothing to do with the fact he could barely control a football. Ings isn’t a bad player but he has been poor a lot this season and anonymous in some games. That’s Ings’ fault, nobody else’s. I’d love him to come good because he’s shown glimpses but it’s not exactly worked out so far, has it? Tin Hat on but we were hearing that when Angel was here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: Funnily enough, I compared Ings to Hogan today. Ings is obviously a lot better but he seems immune to criticism in the sense that it’s everybody else’s fault he isn’t playing well. When Hogan was here, it was a case of the other players not spotting his clever runs and nothing to do with the fact he could barely control a football. Ings isn’t a bad player but he has been poor a lot this season and anonymous in some games. That’s Ings’ fault, nobody else’s. I’d love him to come good because he’s shown glimpses but it’s not exactly worked out so far, has it? I really don't recall that being a view expressed on here except by a very small minority. Bottom line was, Hogan was lost, out of his depth, found out. You obviously can't say the same about Ings so it's a different problem. Edited January 18, 2022 by briny_ear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts