Ratings & Reactions: FAC3: Man Utd v Villa

[TheStagMan]

If it takes over 3 minutes of reviewing the footage, then it is not a "clear and obvious" error is it? Goal stands.

What I cant understand is all these "fans" on here gleefully claiming it wasnt a goal and that VAR made the right decision. Its truly mind boggling.

 

That was by far the most corrupt piece of VAR reviewing I have ever seen. I won't call it incompetent because it clearly wasn't. It was very deliberate. Football stinks.

[Chasetown Villa]

Can’t remember the last time I’ve felt so angry about a disallowed goal. Still seething this morning. Let’s get revenge on Saturday. 

[TheStagMan]

2 minutes ago, UpTheVilla26 said:

The VAR decision was a joke and not what VAR is there for. The initial check was for offside. Now I presume it was for Watkins as that was the focus on the replays, to see if he had touched the ball before Ings scored. At no point during the VAR process was the Ramsey thing shown until the ref went to the screen. Therefore they were using VAR to check for offside yet changed it to suit their agenda. 

Beyond VAR, the fact Luke Shaw stayed on the pitch for the whole game is unreal. He made several tackles worthy of a yellow, before he got one, and he knew what he was doing with the Konsa incident. On the replay, you can see he looks round for a split second, realises he's lost his man and that is when he puts his hand into his face. If one of our players did that to De Gea, then it would be a foul.

I saw enough last night to suggest we can do them on Saturday, especially if Coutinho can play a part, their ball retention is woeful. Play 5 or 10 yards further up on the front foot and we take 3 points. 

Of course, that would be in a normal, fair game, so I half expect them to get a penalty for nothing and we have 3 goals ruled out because VAR rewind and watch a passage of play from 1953 for 15 minutes to find a reason not to award a goal against their sweethearts. 

 

Or they find some footage of their team bus being cut up on the M6 by a car that looks like it might be heading towards Birmingham.

[HKP90]

1 minute ago, TheMelvillan said:

So if Ramsay had fallen to the ground like he was shot rather than cavani would they have viewed the incident differently? I don't think the referee saw it as a foul in real time and that is the key. If there was no var at this game - as was the case in fa cap games in non PREM grounds, then villa would have been awarded that goal.

 

Should bin off the whole var thing. Tonight is a worrying precedent in the sense that, with the amount of pushing, shirt pulling and general gamesmanship that happens in the box, most corner/ free kick goals could be disallowed if they took the time to analyse the footage.

Var destroys the potential for teams to use their cannyness, gamesmanship, game smarts, experience, dark arts to gain advantage at these times. And that's kinda sad. It sanitises the game so much that it will result in benefiting the best teams with the best pure athletes. I miss the advantage that inferior players got by using their street smarts

I think the key is the emphasis/focus you  take. As you say, there are so many contacts in the area during corners and free kicks that if you want to find an infringement using VAR for either side, it is possible, and depends who is doing the looking. 
 

VAR was sold as a way of removing the subjective element of decision making. Making it more empirical. But it doesn’t. At least the way it’s used at the moment. All we have is the same subjectiveness being used in a room away from the actual game.

[TheStagMan]

4 minutes ago, Nicho said:

Ill be honest, Im not sure its that bad of a decision.

But its the amount of time it took and the fact that it was the 3rd thing they looked for. Its also one of the things defenders do every corner or free kick, if thats a foul against the attacking team it has to go against defending teams aswell.

Ultimately we were the better team and didnt really create a lot. We need to be better and hopefully we get revenge on Saturday. 

It wasn't a bad decision. It was an utterly disgraceful decision.

[Nicho]

6 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

It wasn't a bad decision. It was an utterly disgraceful decision.

I suppose what I mean as others are eluding to. If the ref gives it in real time you would be annoyed but accepting, you would then want consistency of that type of decision. The ref doesnt give it, is it a clear foul I dont think so, can it be given as foul yes. 

Should VAR be giving it? absolutely not.

Should VAR be pointing the ref to it as something he obviously missed? This is the grey area but as it is a grey area foul its not "obvious" and therefore absolutely not. 

 

[The Fun Factory]

Morning all

Having a night's reflection on it can all I say that was an utter abomination of a decision and a total disgrace of refereeing which ruined the game. It was a total joke.

I would love it if we can beat these words removed at Villa Park.

[Woody1000]

I still feel very angry this morning, It’s like the sensible part of me knows there isn’t a bias, but it certainly feels like a bias.

Michael Oliver was 3 yards away from the ‘foul’, completely unobstructed but didn’t see anything at the time.

It just feels like there was a determination to disallow the goal….Can we give offside against Konsa? No, What about Ings? No he’s not offside either, but can we give a handball against Ings? No he’s not handled it. S***, what are we going to do now? Ah, we can give a foul against a player who hasn’t moved. Panic over, thank god for that!

You just feel like this would never have happened the other way around, and you also feel like if Konsa had caught Shaw in the face like that with United 1-0 down, then the incident would’ve at the very least been scrutinised, and possibly resulted in a penalty.

[kidlewis]

30 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

I think the key is the emphasis/focus you  take. As you say, there are so many contacts in the area during corners and free kicks that if you want to find an infringement using VAR for either side, it is possible, and depends who is doing the looking. 
 

VAR was sold as a way of removing the subjective element of decision making. Making it more empirical. But it doesn’t. At least the way it’s used at the moment. All we have is the same subjectiveness being used in a room away from the actual game.

I’d love someone to view some set piece goals in the prem this season, I bet 90% would be disallowed following yesterdays decision 

[cb_82]

Fuming with VAR for goal and Konsa incident BUT im even more frustrated with our inability to turn all of that ball into chances and goals

[Tommo_b]

2 hours ago, tinker said:

We missed countless opportunities to score or even make chances from some great positions. Time and time again we broke free and checked our runs because of a lack of options. We are to narrow and unless we can get some amazing full backs this system isn't going to work for us. Add to that we have £80m worth of wingers and it's all looking a bit messy.  

Commentator said Man U had failed to keep a clean sheet in 19 games and you can see why, they was very lucky tonight.

Not sure what happened for the goal but it was far to easy for Mc Tom, basically a free header in the 6 yard box dreadful defending all round.

The VAR decision was typical....... why was Ramsey standing offside anyway, it must have some use but I can't see what, can anyone try and explain? Hopefully that idea will now be canned  as it's very easy to exploit with VAR in its present state 

We can't keep losing games cheaply and we are doing just that. Make no mistake,  tonights Man  U team was woeful , god knows what's going on there but it ain't gonna end in cheers that's for sure. If they play like that against a clinical team they will get thrashed. 

 

You see teams have a couple of players offside all the time when they have attacking free kicks…. Now I can’t say I know the reason why, sure there is some tactic behind it. 

[lapal_fan]

8 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

You see teams have a couple of players offside all the time when they have attacking free kicks…. Now I can’t say I know the reason why, sure there is some tactic behind it. 

It's to drag the defenders back.  They have to keep an eye on the players running into the box and they also have to know who is picking up the people who are currently offside, but won't be in later phases.

It's just a tactic to try and cause disruption to the defending team.  

[VillaJ100]

So i've let the red mist settle!

The most annoying thing is they couldn't string two passes together and were there for the taking. The VAR farce should have decided whether or not we won by 2 or 3 goals. We just can't be so wasteful anymore

[AV82]

Positives! We fully deserved to win that game, played some lovely football and dominated large periods of the game. Away at Old Trafford. I'll take that over a 1-0 scrappy win with players sitting back and looking disinterested. It's still early days under Gerrard and all signs point to steady progress. Happy days!

Special mention for Buendia, constantly involved and trying those risky passes. Manager good, ref shit. On to Saturday.

Edited January 11, 2022 by AV82

[trevor]

The VAR was a joke, is he offside? No. Anything else can we look at? Did Watkins touch the ball? No. Anything else? Did Ings handball it? No Anything else? A block? That looks questionable. A technology that is not being used in every tie of this competition for errors that are Clear and Obvious, I despair. Otherwise happy with the performance and hope we do them on Saturday. One other negative is that they hardly created most of their own chances, they just waited for our midfield to give the ball away needlessly and counter attacked us.

[Junxs]

10 hours ago, IrishVilla10 said:

JJ isn’t even looking at the ball or running into the box to try and play the ball, anyone trying to argue otherwise needs to watch it again. It’s a foul 

Plus he's offside, which I think is the deciding factor.

I haven't got an issue with that being called. What I have an issue with is why have they checked everything else first, it's almost like they were looking for reasons to disallow it rather than checking for clear and obvious errors.

The incident last year when Bruno stamped on Konsa and got a penalty, that was decided by VAR in less than 5 seconds, why wasnt that checked thoroughly like everything else, if they looked at that like they did the incident last night then that penalty would never have been given! 

Seems like different rules depending on the team, thats what I take issue with

[TRO]

6 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said:

Fact is yet again we lost to that lot by the odd goal due to the intervention of the officials. It appears dubious & unclear at best & so, as has happened in the entire rest of the season, it should have stayed with the onfield refs decision.... But nope. 3 1/2 minutes to find a dubious offence which is still being debated even now which not only killed our momentum but also should clearly have stayed with the onfield decision as it was not a clear & obvious error.

Of course, as per normal there is not a cat in hells chance they disallow that goal if Utd had scored it. 

Corruption / clear bias continues to rule at FA towers. 

I have zero doubt it'll be the dodgy penno & more of the same at the weekend.

I think you are right and the officiating is bound to steal the headlines......but their goal was poor defending from us and its happened like that too many times.

We are gifting, poor sides, easy goals and making life very hard for ourselves.

[onmeedson]

We were the better team but you always know man u have the refs on side and you get nothing at old trafford.  We were victims of our system and every team knows that a massive hole always appears between our central back two, put the ball in that area and run from deep into the gap, villa's folly but that's always been my beef with zonal marking if you are given man to man the gaps should not appear.

[TRO]

18 minutes ago, trevor said:

The VAR was a joke, is he offside? No. Anything else can we look at? Did Watkins touch the ball? No. Anything else? Did Ings handball it? No Anything else? A block? That looks questionable. A technology that is not being used in every tie of this competition for errors that are Clear and Obvious, I despair. Otherwise happy with the performance and hope we do them on Saturday. One other negative is that they hardly created most of their own chances, they just waited for our midfield to give the ball away needlessly and counter attacked us.

sadly, that is still a trait of ours that needs rectification....we are still weak on the ball too.

[TRO]

11 hours ago, andym said:

He was there so Cavani has to run around him, which gives that split second for Konsa to get free. You see that sort of thing at pretty much every set piece.

Ramsey hardly moved from his lane; however Cavani being a savvy veteren realised he wasn't catching Konsa anyway so just ran straight into Ramsey and fell over. 

He gave the ref a potential reason to disallow the goal, and it worked for them. Our players could learn a thing or two from that.

Tbh though, if it was the other way around, i'd probably be screaming for a foul.

you might be screaming.....but you wouldn't get it.....that is the essence of the debate.

They was LOOKING for a reason to disallow it.