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Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Leicester


limpid

Match Polls  

301 members have voted

  1. 1. Who was your Man of the Match?

  2. 2. Manager's Performance

  3. 3. Refereeing Performance


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  • Poll closed on 07/12/21 at 23:59

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3 hours ago, mottaloo said:

Dunno if it's been mentioned already but this goal was allowed to stand - with BOTH hands on the ball :

 

 

To be fair, on field referee gave the Ramsey goal as well. Who knows how VAR would have handled that previous decision.

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1 hour ago, TomC said:

Sorry to sound like the former ref that I am, but it depends on how you read the exception.

Putting numbers into the clause: "The ball is (1) between the hands or (2) between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or (3) by touching it with any part of the hands or arms, except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save." Is the exception an exception to all of #1-3, or just to #3?

I think that's an exception only to #3, because it makes no sense as an exception to #1. The ball wouldn't be between the hands if the ball has rebounded from the goalkeeper. The point of the exception is that, if you touch the ball to make the save but it rebounds from the arm and is no longer in contact with the arm, the mere fact that you touched the ball is not enough to be considered a save.

 

Tom,

Good to see an ex Ref on giving the view, it is interesting to have expert views. 

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4 hours ago, Davkaus said:

That's a cracking spot from Warnock tbh, eagle eyes!

One could argue it's absurd to slow things down that much, and zoom right in to see a tiny gap from the floor, but it's no more ridiculous than what they did to identify the "control" in the first place.

Gallagher tying himself in knots with that one. Embarassing. Kudos to the presenter and Warnock.

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7 hours ago, Herman22 said:

If you haven’t seen it Gallagher is shown that the ball is off the ground when JJ strikes it. But he’s decided the “challenge” happens earlier. The lengths these guys will go to to say the refs are right is shocking! 
 

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/teams/aston-villa/12488328/ref-watch-was-schmeichel-fouled-by-ramsey

It was shocking by Gallagher earlier on Sky, the presenter had him over a barrel. He should be not be offered another contract to work on SSN if he is blatantly going to be that biased towards referees.

Kasper smerkle did not have that ball under control after he made the save, period!!

An like someone has already said, it should have never have gone to VAR anyway as it wasn't a clear and obvious error. VAR is not there to over rule the ref.

Edited by foreveryoung
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21 hours ago, Danishlad said:

thanks, I was laughing so much when I saw this, just amazing. he just keeps going

I kept thinking of Mr grimsdale character of Norman Wisdom, when I saw John McGinn with his haunched shoulderson the run😀

Edited by TRO
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The relevance of the hand of god goal by Sqealmichal was important for the villa, last year it would have been the incident that cost us the win. Now we have improved and can overcome these moments to grab the win and raise the roof of villa park.

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On 06/12/2021 at 09:31, Pez1974 said:

But surely our highly paid refs should be looking at the rules 

 

Just wanted to point out that our refs are relatively very low paid, they earn less in a year than a good Premier League player earns in a week.

They should pay maybe 5-10 times more than they currently pay, so then the Premier League attracts the best referees from across the world rather than the current dregs that are employed.

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40 minutes ago, ender4 said:

They should pay maybe 5-10 times more than they currently pay, so then the Premier League attracts the best referees from across the world rather than the current dregs that are employed.

I don't think leagues are allowed to recruit referees from other countries. I think the national association insists that referees are from the nation in which they referee.

 

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14 hours ago, TRO said:

I kept thinking of Mr grimsdale character of Norman Wisdom, when I saw John McGinn with his haunched shoulderson the run😀

Norman Pitkin.

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19 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

it should have never have gone to VAR anyway

pedantry alert, but all goals go to VAR. Every single one. But you're right (I think) that VAR over-ruling/flagging to the match ref was an error.

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1 minute ago, blandy said:

pedantry alert, but all goals go to VAR. Every single one. But you're right (I think) that VAR over-ruling/flagging to the match ref was an error.

Despite all the claims of the rules being upheld and that debate still has legs(IMO).....everyone, I have spoken to, (all different club)fans, say it should have been a goal.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-59551991

Quote

Aston Villa fans delivered "life-saving" CPR to a man who collapsed after Sunday's game.

Keith Draper, Joe Tilley and Jamie Canning were leaving Villa Park in Birmingham when they noticed a man slumped over his steering wheel.

He did not have a pulse and while waiting for an ambulance to arrive, the men took turns to perform CPR.

 

Nice story involving football fans for once

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On 06/12/2021 at 09:35, TomC said:

Sorry to sound like the former ref that I am, but it depends on how you read the exception.

Putting numbers into the clause: "The ball is (1) between the hands or (2) between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or (3) by touching it with any part of the hands or arms, except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save." Is the exception an exception to all of #1-3, or just to #3?

I think that's an exception only to #3, because it makes no sense as an exception to #1. The ball wouldn't be between the hands if the ball has rebounded from the goalkeeper. The point of the exception is that, if you touch the ball to make the save but it rebounds from the arm and is no longer in contact with the arm, the mere fact that you touched the ball is not enough to be considered possession.

 

I think this is correct and, as @Five Ken McNaughts says, #3 applies to a keeper who is, for example about to punt the ball and has it resting on his palm (i.e., not in both hands and not between the hand and a surface) so that an opposing player can't try to nick it off him and claim he wasn't in control.   Similarly, the exception is to #3 in saying that after a save or rebound it's not sufficient to just be touching the ball with your hand or arm to be in control, you have to either be holding it or having it trapped.

The real error was that that the ball was still moving so he wasn't in control.  The VAR only showed Oliver one freeze frame so he couldn't know that the ball was still moving.  Of course, technically, the rule doesn't say the ball has to be trapped or still, it just says it has to be between the hand and the ground.   It could theoretically be moving or there could be 12" between the ground and the ball and it would still be between the hand and the ground.   The rule really ought to says "held between the hand and any surface...".

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I think you’re right @il_serpente – surely the craziest part of all of this is that two Premier League referees were happy to decide the key issue of control of a ball using a FREEZE FRAME. Just think about that for a moment. Control... Of a ball... Based on a single frozen image... It’s beyond ludicrous!

(And, needless to say, the exact opposite of how it would be done in cricket or rugby, where no frame or angle would be ignored).

Only in football is the VAR booth allowed to choose a version of events, exclude any images that might contradict that version, then present the lopsided evidence to the ref for a stamp of approval. 

 

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On 07/12/2021 at 15:19, ender4 said:

Just wanted to point out that our refs are relatively very low paid, they earn less in a year than a good Premier League player earns in a week.

They should pay maybe 5-10 times more than they currently pay, so then the Premier League attracts the best referees from across the world rather than the current dregs that are employed.

In the context of who they are refereeing, they don't earn a lot - but they still earn £70k to £80k a year - and if they do internationals, a whole chunk more. That is a good salary.

That's more than a lot of League 1 players, and a whole load of League 2 players. 

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