Ratings & Reactions: Villa v West Ham

[TheStagMan]

Good to know that you can run up and give an opposing player a forcefull two handed shove to the floor and it will just be a yellow. And the player that you shoved will also get a yellow.

 

Must remember that for the next game

[sheepyvillian]

Youngs touch when he came on, I had to look twice to make sure it wasn't a beach ball we were playing with. It's the lack of cohesion that I don't get.

[allani]

1 minute ago, MrBlack said:

Yup. Total farce that McGinn got a yellow card for shouting in the face of Fornals, the same as Bowen did for what you describe above (absolute joke).  Then throw in that he got the same as the guy that crippled our only midfielder with a disgusting dangerous late tackle. Ref was an idiot.

if he Gets those decisions right instead I would have put money on us winning. 

Seriously.  I want some of whatever you are drinking.  We deserved absolutely nothing out of today's match.  West Ham were quicker to every ball, they put us under more pressure when we had the ball, they worked harder off the ball, they were quicker and more in control when they had the ball.  We could have played that match 100 times and based on the performance of the players we would have lost at least 85 times of those 100 matches.  Trying to blame the officials is ridiculous.  We need to blame the players and the coaching staff.  Our performance was not good enough.  Let's save this "rage" against the officials for those times when we deserve to get something out of a match and are denied by a bad decision - like the West Ham game last season when Ollie's goal was ruled out for offside but the foul on him that put him offside wasn't flagged as a penalty.  The players deserved nothing today.  Smith deserved nothing today.  Sweeping that aside won't help us try and figure out how to get ourselves out of this run of (quite frankly) shocking performances.

[OutByEaster?]

Just now, allani said:

Seriously.  I want some of whatever you are drinking.  We deserved absolutely nothing out of today's match.  West Ham were quicker to every ball, they put us under more pressure when we had the ball, they worked harder off the ball, they were quicker and more in control when they had the ball.  We could have played that match 100 times and based on the performance of the players we would have lost at least 85 times of those 100 matches.  Trying to blame the officials is ridiculous.  We need to blame the players and the coaching staff.  Our performance was not good enough.  Let's save this "rage" against the officials for those times when we deserve to get something out of a match and are denied by a bad decision - like the West Ham game last season when Ollie's goal was ruled out for offside but the foul on him that put him offside wasn't flagged as a penalty.  The players deserved nothing today.  Smith deserved nothing today.  Sweeping that aside won't help us try and figure out how to get ourselves out of this run of (quite frankly) shocking performances.

I genuinely think that without the decisions in the Nakamba challenge, we'd have got a point from that game - we were the better side between Konsa's red card and that incident - West Ham looked lethargic and lacking in ideas - Benrahma didn't show up, Antonio presented no danger, Fornals was peripheral and Bowen was so-so at best - none of those four would have made our starting line up - they defend well and they're organised, but there wasn't much between the two sides on the performances.

 

[Hamburglar]

I’m getting a feeling that all is not well behind the scenes.

and one more thing, can we mix up these throwins a bit they are killing momentum at times I think. we are looking like a team that is very reliant, almost too reliant on set pieces. We can play when we want to and today’s goal was a good example. 
a new manager might not be a bad thing I’m sorry to say.

[Follyfoot]

6 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I genuinely think that without the decisions in the Nakamba challenge, we'd have got a point from that game - we were the better side between Konsa's red card and that incident - West Ham looked lethargic and lacking in ideas - Benrahma didn't show up, Antonio presented no danger, Fornals was peripheral and Bowen was so-so at best - none of those four would have made our starting line up - they defend well and they're organised, but there wasn't much between the two sides on the performances.

 

Sense at last

[hippo]

8 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

Good to know that you can run up and give an opposing player a forcefull two handed shove to the floor and it will just be a yellow. And the player that you shoved will also get a yellow.

 

Must remember that for the next game

Not in this instance - but I have heard this is being looked at by refs.

A club send a nominal player on - who then squares up to one of the opponent's better players - a scuffle ensues and the ref books both players.

Not equal though - as a booking for a fringe player is no where near as damaging as the booking for the star player of a smaller club.

[hippo]

8 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I genuinely think that without the decisions in the Nakamba challenge, we'd have got a point from that game - we were the better side between Konsa's red card and that incident - West Ham looked lethargic and lacking in ideas - Benrahma didn't show up, Antonio presented no danger, Fornals was peripheral and Bowen was so-so at best - none of those four would have made our starting line up - they defend well and they're organised, but there wasn't much between the two sides on the performances.

 

Really not sure. 

West ham scored after six minutes. And about 2 after we equalised.

Seemed when west ham needed a goal they could get one.

[allani]

25 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

The ref thought it was a yellow, VAR looked at it and thought it was a yellow - there's no further action that anyone can take. 

Now it's more than possible that the ref and VAR were both wrong - if they'd got it right (and I haven't seen a replay) then it should have been a red, with a free kick from where the offence took place and no action on Konsa - there's no situation where they can send off both.

We had on screen notification that VAR looked at both incidents, the Hause one first, then the Konsa one - oddly there didn't seem to be any review from VAR on Bowen's tackle, which from where I saw looked an absolute disgrace.

He's going on the list.

That's a relief.  Because to me there is no way that Hause's challenge is not a red card.  I don't think that there was intent but his elbow definitely makes contact with the player's throat and it was (in my opinion) a lot worse than the "tackle" on Nakamba.  Put it this way if Hause is not a red card then neither is the West Ham one.  You could maybe make a case for them both being red but we can't have it both ways.  I am not sure on the exact ruling but surely if Bowen gone on to score then Hause could still have been sent off for violent conduct / serious foul play with the ref allowing advantage to be played (i.e. they would not have disallowed the goal in order to give West Ham a free kick).  So based on that logic if Konsa is then deemed to have prevented a goal-scoring opportunity then that is still the case (I am not convinced that it was a foul) and so both players should have been sent off.

I was worried that maybe Hause would be retrospectively sent off and banned for 3 matches but if, with the ref and VAR have both (wrongly) upheld it as a yellow card, this precludes it from being investigated after the match then that is one positive.

[allani]

11 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I genuinely think that without the decisions in the Nakamba challenge, we'd have got a point from that game - we were the better side between Konsa's red card and that incident - West Ham looked lethargic and lacking in ideas - Benrahma didn't show up, Antonio presented no danger, Fornals was peripheral and Bowen was so-so at best - none of those four would have made our starting line up - they defend well and they're organised, but there wasn't much between the two sides on the performances.

 

OK in that case we will have to agree that we were watching different matches!   I thought we were awful and West Ham played as well as they needed to.  After their second goal there was no point in the match at which I thought we were likely to get a point out of it.  Yes Ollie was a little unlucky with his header against the bar.  But to be honest they also had two or three better chances to score before they wrapped the match up at the end (Emi made at least one excellent save and Cash made a really good double block too).  The ref's performance should be the least of the things that the manager, coaching staff and players should be looking at tonight.

[The Fun Factory]

So far away from the setttled team for the first half of last season. I am too tired and lazy to work it out but what is our calendar 2021 year record? It can't be good.

West Ham breezed past us today just a much more settled side but also much better physically. I know it wasn't planned but playing a 36 year old ashley young in central midfield was not g going to end well. I know people are saying Smith this and Smith that but I would rather ask Lange this and Purslow that. So far our summer recruitment has now worked out. Not impressed so far with Buendia and although I did miss the Everton game Bailey at present just looks like a slightly better version of Bolasie. The alarm bells are starting to ring and I think the talk of European spots will not be mentioned again from Dean and Co for the rest of the season.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, MrBlack said:

Unfortunately their clear red card was ignored by VAR, and the player that got away with it went on to score or assist their next 2 goals.

Our player that escaped the red card proceeded to do absolutely nothing.  Sums our luck up at the moment 

They didn’t show many replays of their foul. From what they did show it didn’t look a red card to me but happy to be corrected if there are better angles out there

[Zhan_Zhuang]

Watkins MOTM for me, great effort and unlucky not to score two.

Dean Smith seems to have lost the players, they are not responding or starting games with enough energy. Something is not right.

I thought the referee was awful and the red was indeed a game-changer.

However Wet Spam were and are better than us unfortunately.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, rjw63 said:

I voted for Barry, I must be in a time warp.

if only.

[chappy]

Rubbish. As I said in the match thread, it took me 4 trains and a replacement bus to get there today, should’ve known from that point on it wasn’t gonna be our day!

West Ham are a very efficient side. We just didn’t know how to go about breaking them down for most of the first half. Nice bit of quality for our goal though.

Couldn't really tell from the Holte what was going on with the two red cards but it would probably have been better for us if Hause had gone. We’ll miss Konsa more whilst suspended.

Voted the ref as very poor for something that happened after that. We were (against all the odds) right back in it after the red card. Then Nakamba was chopped down and I haven’t seen much mention of it on here so not sure if it was obvious on the tv… the ball had fallen to El Ghazi who was pretty much clean through on goal, but the ref decided to blow for the foul. I was annoyed but thought at least he’s gonna send one of their players off here… and only the yellow came out! Then to make it even worse two mins later the same thing happened going the other way but this time he waved through the advantage and they scored. 
 

Heard plenty of muttering about the manager in the ground and at the station after the game today. I don’t want him gone but all is not well clearly. Need to somehow beat Soton on Friday or it’ll be a long international break. 
 

Didn’t notice Buendia go straight down the tunnel btw, thought he sat down on the bench? Did they comment on this on the tv?

Voted Cash motm. Watkins only other potential contender. Nakamba blew hot and cold. The rest were pretty poor.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, briny_ear said:

All of that is arguable but we lost basically because we consistently played poorly against a better organised side who were nowhere near their best but didn’t need to be. We should not try to hide from that fact by focusing on controversial refereeing decisions.

spot on.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, brummybloke said:

Calming down having watched another shitshow 

Mcginn, really not good enough to be playing each week. He gives the ball away a stupid amount of times per game, rarely plays a first time ball or simple ball, instead dither and tries a 1 in 10 pass losing us the ball.

Nakamba, slow and until the game was totally lost was shameful. Like he was 1 second behind play the first 75 minutes of the game. A nothing type player and not what we need

Bailey totally isolated with no support till he had 3 players round him.

Targett back to rabbit in the head lights

Emi b pretty anonymous and not having any kind of positive impact on the team bar maybe 1 good pass or move per 90 minutes

Watkins until he scored was shocking yet again.

Hause, in the air is all we had and he was doing his job as his passing is akin to stevie wonder playing football. But expecting him to accurately pass the ball on a regular basis is 1 step too far.

Martinez is losing confidence in his defence, the amount of long balls to an isolated watkins who literally at times had no team mate within 20 yards was not helping.

Konsa has started trying to do a mings, trying things he isn't capable of doing and then losing the ball

 

We are playing and acting like we did when we got promoted. Disjointed, no team cohesion and weak.

You would think smith would look at every time we got beaten from a neutral point of view and actually see why we get beaten so easily so often.

Weak players and its the manager who keeps picking these players.

Today several times players not bothering to run for a ball, nakamba with the speed of a sloth yet the turning circle of a blue whale.

Cash is the only one for me to come out of this with any dignity and maybe watkins from when he scored onwards.

The ref while picking and choosing what to ignore is no excuse for the pathetic shower we are watching on a regular basis. Falling over expecting a free kick all the time rather than showing any kind of strength repeatedly misplacing the ball and handing it back to the opposition eventually passes the crowd off who quite rightly will show they are pissed off. Then people try and use the excuses that the crowd aren't helping ?

Maybe if they helped themselves by not being gash then the crowd wouldn't become negative.

 

Losing my patience with smiths deliberate ploy of not having anyone play for us who can enforce the middle of the park.

 

It will be the essence of his ultimate downfall.

[allani]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

They didn’t show many replays of their foul. From what they did show it didn’t look a red card to me but happy to be corrected if there are better angles out there

I was watching it Italy and the commentators are usually pretty good (and quite fair / non-partisan in their comments).  From the replays showed here and what the commentators said - Hause was without doubt dangerous and made contact with his elbow - so it was 100% a red card.  They replayed that several times and from no angle should it have been a yellow.  I personally don't think that Konsa fouled Bowen (I thought his contact in the Everton match was much more dodgy) - but if you give a foul then it has to be a red card.  So the officials actually let us off the hook.  As far as I know the rules would allow for advantage to be played after serious foul play and so both our players should have been red cards.  From the angle we had the West Ham foul initially looked like a yellow (and a strong talking to) rather than a straight red.  None of the angles shown here suggested that was wrong.  Much as I disliked the push, I don't think that it was violent.  I think a yellow was fair but again with a "listen son you can't do that and so you are dangerously close to the line" comment.

The overall opinion from Italian TV was that the only mistake the ref made was in not sending off Hause (i.e. it should have been 9 v 11).  Their main focus was on it being a pretty good performance from West Ham who look good for chasing Europe again this season and a very worrying performance from us particularly on the back of the Wolves and Arsenal matches.  Like I say I think that their pundits get it right a lot more often than they get it wrong and certainly don't have the bias that exists on the UK coverage.

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, chappy said:

Rubbish. As I said in the match thread, it took me 4 trains and a replacement bus to get there today, should’ve known from that point on it wasn’t gonna be our day!

West Ham are a very efficient side. We just didn’t know how to go about breaking them down for most of the first half. Nice bit of quality for our goal though.

Couldn't really tell from the Holte what was going on with the two red cards but it would probably have been better for us if Hause had gone. We’ll miss Konsa more whilst suspended.

Voted the ref as very poor for something that happened after that. We were (against all the odds) right back in it after the red card. Then Nakamba was chopped down and I haven’t seen much mention of it on here so not sure if it was obvious on the tv… the ball had fallen to El Ghazi who was pretty much clean through on goal, but the ref decided to blow for the foul. I was annoyed but thought at least he’s gonna send one of their players off here… and only the yellow came out! Then to make it even worse two mins later the same thing happened going the other way but this time he waved through the advantage and they scored. 
 

Heard plenty of muttering about the manager in the ground and at the station after the game today. I don’t want him gone but all is not well clearly. Need to somehow beat Soton on Friday or it’ll be a long international break. 
 

Didn’t notice Buendia go straight down the tunnel btw, thought he sat down on the bench? Did they comment on this on the tv?

Voted Cash motm. Watkins only other potential contender. Nakamba blew hot and cold. The rest were pretty poor.

I too was hearing many fans in the mass exodus on 80 minutes, losing patience with DS.

Personally, I am fed up of listening to refereeing decsions as mitigation for our shoddy play....we are the architects of our own demise.

I hope we don't slip towards the exit door still bemoaning decisions going against us......we need to man up and dig some results out.

[villalad21]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

I too was hearing many fans in the mass exodus on 80 minutes, losing patience with DS.

Personally, I am fed up of listening to refereeing decsions as mitigation for our shoddy play....we are the architects of our own demise.

I hope we don't slip towards the exit door still bemoaning decisions going against us......we need to man up and dig some results out.

We don't have the personnel to graft. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by villalad21