Ratings & Reactions: Villa v West Ham

[smg]

9 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

“If he does one bad pass”? He pretty much  gives the ball away every time he gets it and does it in pretty dangerous positions a lot of the time.

Yes, he runs around a lot and wins the ball back but when you can’t pass a ball 5 yards to a teammate it’s pretty pointless.

He benefits from the Birkir Bjarnasson trait of running around like a headless chicken a lot so people think he’s having a great game.

The downgrade from Douglas Luiz to Nakamba is the biggest downgrade in our squad from first team to backup other than Martinez to Jed Steer.

Really he doesn’t but if it helps your argument ok

[turvontour]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

Apparently they were considering sending off both. 

Jesus Christ.

Hause should have def gone for me. Absolutely stupid thing to do.

[TomC]

I studied all 4 goals conceded just now, and as has been the case often this year, the problems come back to simple errors...

1st goal: Bailey was in the right place. His attempt at the ball was lame. Can't blame that on the coaching.

2nd goal: A nice strike into a small gap. However, 4 players bunched up near 2 attackers and didn't maintain any spacing. Arguably, that helped open up the small gap. Still, I'm not ready to blame this one on anyone.

3rd goal: The only man at the centre line when West Ham broke was Targett. He was in a good position to contest the initial ball. Unfortunately, Antonio beat him to the header. More unfortunately, watch just before the header...McGinn was with Bowen at the start of his run, but pulled up, apparently totally unaware that Targett was isolated, and let Bowen get away from him to run onto the header. Plenty of fault to McGinn, but also, where were the centre backs? Nakamba and Young did everything they could to get back; I can't fault them. But the centre backs should have been there long before them. You can't both go forward and leave one fullback to cope with counterattacks.

4th goal: Defensive confusion. Targett was with Bowen, but left him to go chase the ball carrier (Lanzini)...and nobody switches with him. We had three men chasing Lanzini (unsuccessfully) and Bowen was wide open. No awareness of what each other were doing. Targett probably made the right move...Lanzini was on our left, and that's Targett's zone. So why are the others still chasing him? Knowing when to switch marks is part of zonal marking.

Really, the last two goals had nothing to do with being down to 10 men and everything to do with poor situational awareness.

 

[maqroll]

1 hour ago, theboyangel said:

what rumours? 
 

I’ve been steering clear of on-topic for a few weeks

 

A punch up which landed Tyrone on the bench and Sanson "out sick".

Could be bullshit, but it kind of seems totally plausible. 

[OutByEaster?]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

I'm genuinely baffled that anyone with an understanding of the "denial of a goalscoring oppurtunity" interpretation could think Konsa shouldn't have had red.

Ball heading away from goal and Young covering - yellow card each and every time - there's no dogso.. 

Hause by all accounts should have had a red.

Bowen should have had a red.

Fornals maybe should have had a red.

 

[tom_avfc]

1 minute ago, maqroll said:

A punch up which landed Tyrone on the bench and Sanson "out sick".

Could be bullshit, but it kind of seems totally plausible. 

I heard that Mings knocked out Sanson. Douglas Luiz got involved and sparked out Jaden Philogene-Bidace. This led to a full on gang war amongst the Villa squad with Mings, Philogene-Bidace and Danny Ings carrying out regular hits on the Sanson and Douglas Luiz crew. Trezeguet also heavily involved as a bit of a traitor double crossing both sides.

Either that or the players mentioned above were all either injured or ill.

Seriously though these rumours are getting pretty ridiculous.

[Davkaus]

8 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Ball heading away from goal and Young covering - yellow card each and every time - there's no dogso.. 

Hause by all accounts should have had a red.

Bowen should have had a red.

Fornals maybe should have had a red.

 

 

Heading away form goal? eh? The ball is heading towards the goal, and Young is getting nowhere near the West Ham forward. In positions alone it's pretty damning but what the still doesn't show is Young is lightly jogging and not really even m,aking an effort to get back. 

If that's a foul, it's a red card.

I agree with you on the other 3, but not on Konsa.

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Davkaus

[Paul33]

Thought Buendia looked world class today !

 

[allani]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I don’t think it’s as simple as that. Yes they were the better team but we were still in the game until the red. Hause was definitely a red though.  I think they didn’t give it because didn’t want to send both of them off. 

We were still in the game but probably shouldn't have been.  And I agree that if Konsa hadn't been shown a red that Hause would have done.  So they bottled giving both defenders reds in the space of 5 seconds.  I don't know whether Hause can be suspended after the match given that the incident was seen by the ref and reviewed by VAR?

[OutByEaster?]

3 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

 

Heading away form goal? eh? The ball is heading towards the goal, and Young is getting nowhere near the West Ham forward

If that's a foul, it's a red card.

I agree with you on the other 3, but not on Konsa.

 

Where did the ball go out of play?

It's pretty much impossible to get an idea of the direction of a ball from a still photo.

[OutByEaster?]

2 minutes ago, allani said:

We were still in the game but probably shouldn't have been.  And I agree that if Konsa hadn't been shown a red that Hause would have done.  So they bottled giving both defenders reds in the space of 5 seconds.  I don't know whether Hause can be suspended after the match given that the incident was seen by the ref and reviewed by VAR?

The ref thought it was a yellow, VAR looked at it and thought it was a yellow - there's no further action that anyone can take. 

Now it's more than possible that the ref and VAR were both wrong - if they'd got it right (and I haven't seen a replay) then it should have been a red, with a free kick from where the offence took place and no action on Konsa - there's no situation where they can send off both.

We had on screen notification that VAR looked at both incidents, the Hause one first, then the Konsa one - oddly there didn't seem to be any review from VAR on Bowen's tackle, which from where I saw looked an absolute disgrace.

He's going on the list.

[Davkaus]

4 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Where did the ball go out of play?

It's pretty much impossible to get an idea of the direction of a ball from a still photo.

Here's a replay

https://streamja.com/oovVl

A few frames before and after. It's basically heading directly across the pitch from left to right, so it wasn't on track to go in if there were no players on the pitch, but it's certainly heading more towards the goal than away from it, and if Bowen isn't impeded, he's got a one on one with Martinez from a fairly decent angle coming in from the edge of the box. the quality is dire as I've just taken them from that replay, but from the positioning, if it's a foul it's pretty clearly a red IMO. You could make an argument about it being soft and too soft to even give the foul, but I don't think there's any justification to give the foul and not the red.

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Davkaus

[OutByEaster?]

I'd still probably go yellow on it - but it's borderline and I get it.

Do we know how Ramsey is?

[OutByEaster?]

One thing that's notable from Villa Park, that definitely isn't reflected in reactions here is that at the end of the game, most of the players came up to applaud the Holte End and were applauded back - at the ground, the sense of anger was definitely with the officiating, not the team. 

 

[weedman]

3 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Here's a replay

https://streamja.com/oovVl

A few frames before and after. It's basically heading directly across the pitch from left to right, so it wasn't on track to go in if there were no players on the pitch, but it's certainly heading more towards the goal than away from it, and if Bowen isn't impeded, he's got a one on one with Martinez from a fairly decent angle coming in from the edge of the box. the quality is dire as I've just taken them from that replay, but from the positioning, if it's a foul it's pretty clearly a red IMO. You could make an argument about it being soft and too soft to even give the foul, but I don't think there's any justification to give the foul and not the red.

 

 

 

Thing is, if it's a foul, I think it has to be a red, but am I the only one who can't see a foul there at all? There's laughably little contact and screams of their guy getting in between the defender and the ball and falling over, hoping there might have been a touch. 

Honestly if that's enough "contact" for a foul and red card why doesn't every single corner end up with a penalty? There's more contact on all 15 players inside the box at a corner than there was on the west ham player in that instance 

[Davkaus]

Just now, weedman said:

Thing is, if it's a foul, I think it has to be a red, but am I the only one who can't see a foul there at all? There's laughably little contact and screams of their guy getting in between the defender and the ball and falling over, hoping there might have been a touch. 

Honestly if that's enough "contact" for a foul and red card why doesn't every single corner end up with a penalty? There's more contact on all 15 players inside the box at a corner than there was on the west ham player in that instance 

One thing that's infuriating me this season is that for all the talk of "letting soft fouls go" it's laughably inconsistent each weekend, it's why I'll happily talk about things that I think are absolutely, positioning, and so on, but when it comes to whether something is a foul, I honestly have absolutely no idea anymore. May as well toss a coin.

[Davkaus]

The Bowen one is the one I'm most angry about. That prick isn't involved at all but comes running a few yards just to shove McGinn to the floor, right in front of the ref. 

[tonyh29]

Seems crazy that you can run 20 yards and 2 hand push an opponent over and get a yellow , but you clip a man’s shoulders and he falls theatrically to the ground as he’s going away from goal and you get a red 

that said that was as embarrassing as the Arsenal game performance wise and subject to a covid lock down suspending the season , I think Smiths a goner next week once we lose to Southampton.

team wise , players don’t seem to know what they are doing and that midfield is getting over run week after week and yet nothing is being done to prevent it .

Jan window can’t come soon enough 

[MrBlack]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

The Bowen one is the one I'm most angry about. That prick isn't involved at all but comes running a few yards just to shove McGinn to the floor, right in front of the ref. 

Yup. Total farce that McGinn got a yellow card for shouting in the face of Fornals, the same as Bowen did for what you describe above (absolute joke).  Then throw in that he got the same as the guy that crippled our only midfielder with a disgusting dangerous late tackle. Ref was an idiot.

if he Gets those decisions right instead I would have put money on us winning. 

[allani]

29 minutes ago, smg said:

Nakamba had a great game today, sadly a large proportion of fans have decided he is shit and all the positive contributions are ignored if he does one bad pass. Pathetic 

Nakamba had a decent game.  But he is nowhere close to as good as Rice or Soucek.  He is very limited as a player and we are not going to get anywhere close to challenging for Europe when we are starting matches with a midfield of McGinn, Nakamba and Ramsay.  Smith (and others) have said that Europe is the target this season.  Even if you say that losing Jack downgrades that target a little - the minimum still has to be top half.  We needed to reinforce the midfield with a quality defensive midfielder to allowed us to field two from Luiz, McGinn and Sanson (injuries permitting).  We didn't.  That was a massive mistake.  We consequently have 5 central defenders of which only one combination is good enough for our target this season - and those three have yet to start a match together this season.  If the owners are serious about challenging for Europe then Nakamba is not good enough for the squad, Ramsay should have been out on loan for the season and Smith needs to drop McGinn when he is playing badly or sub him when he runs out of steam (which seems to be after about 50 mins at the moment).  Our midfield created nothing today.  The defenders resorted to just kicking the ball over their heads in a vague hope that Watkins might be able to control it under pressure from two defenders.  Then West Ham sliced through our midfield time after time with quick passes to feet, our midfielders watching the ball rather than tracking their man and then not putting their players under pressure.  That is not all on Nakamba and to an extent I feel sorry for him as he often had to try and pick up two opposition players because McGinn was 5m behind his man (but running around a lot so will get another free pass because he "put in the effort" even if most of that effort was wasted and pointless).  He's not shit but he is not good enough for where we are being told that the club aspires to be.  Unfortunately, he is not alone in that assessment.