Ratings & Reactions: Watford v Villa

[HKP90]

1 minute ago, foreveryoung said:

Didn't Pep say jack cost them 40m. Don't really work like that does it!

Eh? Whether or not they paid up front, Jack was worth 100 million to us. We lost a player worth 100 million.
 

Anyway if you are net -10million down in terms of the equity of the playing staff, your team is demonstrably weaker.

[AntrimBlack]

Poor performance, but a disjointed pre season was part of the cause, also the manager's team selection, and players unable to start the game.

But Smith needed to do something about Targett in the first half. He needed to have the balls, as perhaps a better manager might have, to take him off during that first half to possibly save the game.

His substitutions were correct, but by then it was too late. 

Young showed Targett how to be a LB, and should have started there. Guilbert should have been a bench option, as Cash was very poor. And did we really need 2 CB's on the bench?

Ramsey, Bailey and Traore all played well. Nakamba and El Ghazi are just not good enough. Buendia was disappointing, but first half it seemed to me the front 4 had no idea what they were supposed to do and were often playing in unfamiliar positions.

On a positive note, the recruitment team now know what they need to do in the remainder of the window. 

[abdulaziz1]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

You think having a 2 man midfield will see us losing but you want to play 4-4-2?

Something don't make sense here.

Actually two upfront is more defensive than attacking. Teams such as Burnley usually play it. 
We don’t have a proper number 10, nor we have players that can play only two. Basically we change our whole style. The only time we did well, was when Jack was in the middle, but whenever Barkley played we used to lose something in midfield battle. 
For me, playing Buendia there will be wasting time. 
We don’t have to start Ings/Watkins every game. We need to have the right approach first. 

[abdulaziz1]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

You think having a 2 man midfield will see us losing but you want to play 4-4-2?

Something don't make sense here.

Actually two upfront is more defensive than attacking. Teams such as Burnley usually play it. 
We don’t have a proper number 10, nor we have players that can play only two. Basically we change our whole style. The only time we did well, was when Jack was in the middle, but whenever Barkley played we used to lose something in midfield battle. 
For me, playing Buendia there will be wasting time. 
We don’t have to start Ings/Watkins every game. We need to have the right approach first. 

[ejvilla]

Poor performance, but knew it was coming based on what we'd seen in pre-season. Team needs time. I'm strangely glad Dean picked AEG and played Young at LW, and played JMcG and Marv... because I feel like we would've conceded those first 2 goals regardless of if he'd started Bailey or Traore or any of the younger guns and it might have destroyed their confidence or fans faith unfairly early.

Shake the cobwebs out. Up the sharpness during the week. Drop AEG (and send him out on loan/sell), Bailey in for Ash. Hope watkins gets fit.

Martinelli & Richarlison played this weekend! Where's Doug!?

Marv can only feature as DM in a midfield 3, as a screen. Don't want to see him in the final third ever. Just. Stay. Back.

Can't play buendia in midfield without 2 other strong holding mids. Luiz & Marv are best at that, but an upgrade is required with a bit of strength. Badly need a Declan Rice or Kalvin Phillips type of mobile DM. 

If we play a mf 3 without Marv, Emi has to play wing forward, which means one of Ings/Bailey misses out/rotates. Ings can't lead the line by himself by the looks of it - especially if we're not playing into feet ffs. How many crosses to nowhere? Surely that wasn't the plan! He was dominated on any high ball all day.

We're too lightweight to play a 2 man midfield. Ramsey actually looks the strongest physically out of all options. We especially can't play 2 marauding CMs... like wtf? And maurauding fullbacks? And lazy wingers? Asking to get spanked by any team in this league.

How many times did we see Watford running at Mings or Konsa with zero cover? A better side would've put 7 past us.

Better in last 20 mins - but there are fundamental problems to solve.

Will be a very tough season. The safe bet would be to spunk £60M on the biggest, strongest, most composed DM who'd be willing to come. No idea who - but we've a giant hole in the middle of the park. Someone needs to drop & take the ball off the CBs, turn around and start a move. Like Luiz was doing a while ago. Can't rely on Mings/Konsa to be deep lying playmakers. 

Words of the day: naive, weak, slow, disorganised, selfish, individuals... fixable!

 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by ejvilla

[RicRic]

6 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

Poor performance, but a disjointed pre season was part of the cause, also the manager's team selection, and players unable to start the game.

But Smith needed to do something about Targett in the first half. He needed to have the balls, as perhaps a better manager might have, to take him off during that first half to possibly save the game.

His substitutions were correct, but by then it was too late. 

Young showed Targett how to be a LB, and should have started there. Guilbert should have been a bench option, as Cash was very poor. And did we really need 2 CB's on the bench?

Ramsey, Bailey and Traore all played well. Nakamba and El Ghazi are just not good enough. Buendia was disappointing, but first half it seemed to me the front 4 had no idea what they were supposed to do and were often playing in unfamiliar positions.

On a positive note, the recruitment team now know what they need to do in the remainder of the window. 

I feel Bidace could have has some involvement from the start aswell as other tactical moves

[string28]

I think if we bring in a dmid then we will be a lot better and would make that top 8. plus maybe a lw not too sure about el ghazi.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, macandally said:

We love a drama on here do we not!

Looking at it clinically, think Deano overestimated the fitness of his players, Beundia, Targett, Young all looked under baked to me and need minutes in their legs.  The Watford game plan worked, they defended deep and use pace down the sides on the counter and it worked for them.  Also, lets be honest, everything that could go for them, did.  For the first Konsa's block could have gone anywhere and Emi usually saves those, it appeared to go under him, the second took a deflection and could have gone anywhere, the third was a perfect finish but the pin ball in the build up could broke to them.

My worry is the difficulty we had in breaking down that defensive line.  Perhaps we went a little gung-ho at the start and should have been more defensively solid, as Watfords legs were bound to tire towards the back of the game if we had kept moving the ball.  A bit of game management.

Anyway, for those going on about relegation after one game, take a breath, let the drama go and we will be fine with more minutes into players legs and them understanding each others game.  Playing away to teams newly promoted is always difficult, see it for what it is and don't panic.

Its a marathon ,not a sprint, is right, but that highlighted bit....This hase been a line that has been touched on generally, when we seem to be out fought.

[Keyblade]

One thing is clear, we do t have the midfield personnel for a 4231 or 442. We don't have a single midfielder who can work in a 2. We do now however have enough good midfielders to play Deano's preferred 433. If that means Buendia and Traore have to fight it out for that right forward spot, so be it. Whoever gets the shirt will be on form that's for sure. Time to play to our strengths. We aren't the creative force we once we're unfortunately.

[RicRic]

2 minutes ago, ejvilla said:

Poor performance, but knew it was coming based on what we'd seen in pre-season. Team needs time. I'm strangely glad Dean picked AEG and played Young at LW, and played JMcG and Marv... because I feel like we would've conceded those first 2 goals regardless of if he'd started Bailey or Traore or any of the younger guns and it might have destroyed their confidence or fans faith unfairly early.

Shake the cobwebs out. Up the sharpness during the week. Drop AEG (and send him out on loan/sell), Bailey in for Ash. Hope watkins gets fit.

Martinelli & Richarlison played this weekend! Where's Doug!?

Marv can only feature as DM in a midfield 3, as a screen. Don't want to see him in the final third ever. Just. Stay. Back.

Can't play buendia in midfield without 2 other strong holding mids. Luiz & Marv are best at that, but an upgrade is required with a bit of strength. Badly need a Declan Rice or Kalvin Phillips type of mobile DM. 

If we play a mf 3 without Marv, Emi has to play wing forward, which means one of Ings/Bailey misses out/rotates. Ings can't lead the line by himself by the looks of it - especially if we're not playing into feet ffs. How many crosses to nowhere? Surely that wasn't the plan! He was dominated on any high ball all day.

We're too lightweight to play a 2 man midfield. Ramsey actually looks the strongest physically out of all options. We especially can't play 2 marauding CMs... like wtf? And maurauding fullbacks? And lazy wingers? Asking to get spanked by any team in this league.

How many times did we see Watford running at Mings or Konsa with zero cover? A better side would've put 7 past us.

Better in last 20 mins - but there are fundamental problems to solve.

Will be a very tough season. The safe bet would be to spunk £60M on the biggest, strongest, most composed DM who'd be willing to come. No idea who - but we've a giant hole in the middle of the park. Someone needs to drop & take the ball off the CBs, turn around and start a move. Like Luiz was doing a while ago. Can rely on Mings/Konsa to be deep lying playmakers. 

Words of the day: naive, weak, slow, disorganised, selfish, individuals... fixable!

 

 

No point mentioning Bailey missing out or rotates that should never have been said because he is one of the first on that team sheet every week ! 

[AvonVillain]

4 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

But Smith needed to do something about Targett in the first half. He needed to have the balls, as perhaps a better manager might have, to take him off during that first half to possibly save the game.

His substitutions were correct, but by then it was too late.

Bloody nora. A HT substitution 'too late'. That's a first. Even for this place. Still completely flat about the Villa. Saw the score whilst at work, and shrugged.

[LondonVillian]

utter dross - same story for DS without Grealish - clueless 

[Woody1000]

West Ham lost their opening game last season at home to Newcastle, their season fell apart after that right?

We’ve got new players to bed in, the transfer window is still open, everything will be just fine. If that was our best team out there from the start today, I would be a bit concerned but it wasn’t.

I personally dislike the term ‘bed wetting’ when used in a football sense, but there’s no other way to describe some of the reactions today. The match thread in particular was vile.

It was a bad day at the office, there’s no denying that, but it happens.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Really poor - what we have looks disjointed and lacking in practice and pattern - you'd expect that to an extent given that some of them are new and the rest have barely scraped together a pre-season. It's what we don't have that's most worrying, especially with the comments from Purslow and Smith suggesting we're done.

Targett doesn't look fit and sharp yet, he missed some of pre-season, he'll get better - Cash probably needed a little bit of a slap in the face to remind him he'll have to work for it - I think the back five need playing time, they weren't good today, but I'm not massively worried about them.

Up front, Bailey looked a real threat, hopefully he'll soon be starting games, Buendia had a poor game, Ings was hit and miss, but we've invested well and we have players we can bring in when that happens - with Watkins fit and Traore 100%, we have options and solutions if someone just has a bad day. Buendia and Ings are good enough that days like today won't be the norm from them.

The middle of the park remains a massive mess - it looks like the club have got so tied up in replacing Grealish they've forgotten the rest of the side - we've lost a world class creative force and replaced him with three really good players - good job, well done - now what about midfield - well, we've got McGinn, super John McGinn - and the the best part of f** all else right now. Ramsey improved us in two ways - he added a third body in the middle of the park which gave us a foothold in the game and he can run. That's good to have, but is a young player adding those two things enough?

We didn't ever look in control of the game, there wasn't protection for the back four, we couldn't sit and break, we couldn't control the ball or the tempo, we weren't pressing them in possession enough and we couldn't cover their breaks, our forward players were having to get into weird areas to try to get involved and our back four were having to try to do the things they're not good at in order to provide some sort of creativity. All of that comes down to not having enough in the middle of the park.

If Sanson comes good and Luiz comes back strong, we might get away with just one new body in there - personally I think we need two to be competitive and three to push for Europe - we need to play with three in the middle and there is currently only one player that's fit and good enough to do that at the football club - you could argue against all three of McGinn, Luiz and Sanson being good enough in the long run, certainly no one else in our squad is anywhere near and unless we buy an absolute solid gold defensive midfielder at the Declan Rice level, we'll need three in the middle to cover for that weakness - we need two more really badly.

That at the moment is in opposition to what seems to be a push to play four of the attacking players - Buendia, Ings, Watkins and Bailey - and I'm concerned that if Dean Smith thinks that we can do that, it's a gamble that might see him under pressure quicker than he thinks.

We were dreadful today - we'll improve in the areas where we have good players - we'll be stronger for the Newcastle game, but we're a bagel of a football team with a big hole in the middle and if we don't plug that we're in for a very long season of days like today.

 

 

Brilliant Post and so apt.

I feel annoyed that has to be you as a supporter that can see it, but the club can't,can't  by their actions, so far....its not meant to be a criticism of the club, because they have been marvellous.....but my frustration spills over.

and you have it in a nutshell.

Edited August 14, 2021 by TRO

[ejvilla]

5 minutes ago, RicRic said:

No point mentioning Bailey missing out or rotates that should never have been said because he is one of the first on that team sheet every week ! 

Sure... but we can't play a 2 man midfield from the current staff and play emi, ings, olli & bailey. So someone's missing out.

[villalad21]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

No. Just a shame you go from one extreme to the other. 

But like I said at the time, I truly believe you started that thread as an excuse to be extra critical. 

It's boring. You've done if since day 1 and every season you look foolish but never learn.

I actually were genuinely excited about the team. Still am.

But once again Smith has proved to be a reactive manager. Not pro active.

Making the same mistakes. Not reacting quick enough. Picking the wrong team.

If we don't get anything out of these so called "easy" games the pressure will be immense when we start playing the better sides.

Before you know it you're 10 games in, and find yourself in the bottom 3. Low on confidence. Low on momentum.

All this talk of team needing to gel. Needing to find the right system etc. We don't have time for that. Season has begun.

This team needs to get going. And fast.

[hippo]

3 minutes ago, Woody1000 said:

West Ham lost their opening game last season at home to Newcastle, their season fell apart after that right?

We’ve got new players to bed in, the transfer window is still open, everything will be just fine. If that was our best team out there from the start today, I would be a bit concerned but it wasn’t.

I personally dislike the term ‘bed wetting’ when used in a football sense, but there’s no other way to describe some of the reactions today. The match thread in particular was vile.

It was a bad day at the office, there’s no denying that, but it happens.

Thing is Leon bailey - whose had the least bedding time - looked our best player. ...I'm almost hoping he doesn't bed in.!!!

[villalad21]

1 minute ago, tinker said:

Have you watched us over the last few seasons ? We have just lost the best player I have ever seen in a villa shirt and we expect to progress?

We averaged 0.95 points without him,  work the 'math' out.

We have replaced him with a championship  player and a winger who's played most of his career in foreign leagues. Even if they  go on and develop into top top players it's going to take at least 3 months for them to get upto speed.(Bailey looks like he could be a great player)

For anyone to realistically  expect an improvement  on last season with this squad then to me,  and I'm sorry , they know **** all about football.

I don't care what anyone says when it comes to this season, Smith included, we are going to struggle in comparison to last season without that drug taking, car crashing dick head . 

What are you on about?

This squad is good enough to at the very least finish mid table. Far from relegation.

Yeah we lost Grealish but we added 4 quality players.

[AntrimBlack]

4 minutes ago, AvonVillain said:

Bloody nora. A HT substitution 'too late'. That's a first. Even for this place. Still completely flat about the Villa. Saw the score whilst at work, and shrugged.

It was obvious to everyone that Targett could not handle Sarr, and that one-sided duel in the first half lost it for us. It was so bad I felt really sorry for Targett, who is a player I like.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Loads of new players, first game of the season. We were very poor first half, but each of Smith's changes put us more in control I thought.

He'll need 5 or so games I think to get the formula right. If we're still shit around Christmas time then fine, we have a problem, but people saying this already puts him under pressure really do just have a vendetta.

The highlights for me:

• Young still looks excellent at LB, and Targett is going to have to fight for his place
• Bailey is a nailed on starter now, what a player
• Traore has won his place back
• Ramsey looks to have progressed over the summer - decent performance from him

Problems:

• Ings was a bit too "old fashioned poacher" for my liking. If he's playing lone striker, he needs to be laying the ball off, playing people through, etc. We missed Watkins.
• Buendia did nothing.
• Nakamba is supposed to be there to add defensive solidity. We got more of that from McGinn than from him. Personally I think Nakamba should have been helping Targett out more often, but he seemed to be playing too high up the pitch. Didn't really understand what his role was.
• Targett looks out of shape. He'll need to fight his way back into the side.
• El Ghazi.

All stuff that can be sorted (I mean a lot of it we already sorted today midgame, but it was too late). I think the Nakamba issue will come down to signing another CM / DM, but the other stuff we already have the answers.

why? and if he is....why play him?

as our aspirations grow, some of our players will need to be re-evaluated.

Edited August 14, 2021 by TRO